Let's talk about Hell

[Danny Heim]

That's just you, people can identify the difference between Jesus Christ and other figures, abit sub-consciously though. To say that other religions can't be distinguished from Christianity is quite moot.

And so it goes for Krishna, about a billion people in fact. There is much to learn in just that fact alone. And that is, what you endear to Jesus, others endear to Krishna and Buddha. Do you really think the relationship you have with Jesus is anymore special than mine to the universe? Or a Hindu to Krishna? Please say no.

 

[Benoni]

So much is assumed in God’s Word declares Gehenna is a place for sinners of the world/heathen/gentiles/non believers etc; SOMETHING? God fire poured out on mankind is totally figuratively/spiritual. Yes the fires in the OT toward the disobedient or misinformed people who did not do the right thing; there earthy body was gone, burnt up; but always their spirit returns to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

What I am saying to you is figuratively/spiritual, or by using the scriptural symbolic language found in both NT and OT. Or another word examples point to what God’s Word is declaring about Gehenna or the Lake of Fire; let reached out to what God’s Word is saying.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

Matt 5;22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.​

The below listed verse are good reference to Gehenna

Isaiah 30:33
Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze.

The breath of the Lord (the spirit of the Lord) like a stream of burning sulfur (same as brimstone) which was used for purification (total symbolic language) Wood speaks of carnal nature (wood/hay stubble)


Jeremiah 7:31-32
They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room.

Here Gehenna is established as a place of burning dead bodies/rubbish and Gehenna is located just outside of the gate of Jersalem.



Jeremiah 19:13-15
The houses in Jerusalem and those of the kings of Judah will be defiled like this place, Topheth—all the houses where they burned incense on the roofs to all the starry hosts and poured out drink offerings to other gods.' "

Jeremiah then returned from Topheth, where the LORD had sent him to prophesy, and stood in the court of the LORD's temple and said to all the people, "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: 'Listen! I am going to bring on this city and the villages around it every disaster I pronounced against them, because they were stiff-necked and would not listen to my words.' "

That is Gehenna Judgment that Jesus came and warned Isreal about.

Matthew 23:29-39

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell (Gehenna)? Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate.For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'

Jeremiah 7:33-34
" 'The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the LORD. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it. They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. I will bring an end to the sounds of joy and gladness and to the voices of bride and bridegroom in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate.

Do you see it? This is the Judgment of Gehenna against Israel and all who persist in unbelief. However; although this happens it is not the end. God through Jesus, is restoring Israel, but not the natural nation but a spiritual nation of all mankind. All have sinned, none are righteous, no not one. All have been disobedient and therefore mercy is over them all.

 

[Etritonakin]

Exactly. Things are not that simple. I wasn't saying it was that simple. Remember, this is what I said. " I certainly do not think that all of the sudden "pop" we've changed and everything is happy. In fact, I imagine that a dreadful fight will ensue as we are "forced" into change." So, what the heck are you talking about??

I think we agree on the dreadful fight thing.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In Hebrew it is sheol which is a darkness for souls to wait for the coming of the judgment. In Greek, the word is Hades. Sheol is not totally equivalent to grave, or else grave will be used instead of the strange term sheol. The Jews minority who didn't follow the Oral Torah might not believe in the torturing sheol, but the Jews in majority including the Pharisee circle in Jesus' time believe in sheol as a place for humans souls.
Hell fire is also believed by the Jews. That's why hell is in Jesus Christ's parable. Parable usually use terms extremely familiar to people in order to illustrate a point. That is, to use simple things to describe a less obvious point.

The word for hellfire is not sheol or hades but Gehenna.
Gehenna was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and not kept burning forever.

The people would have been familiar with Gehenna and could relate that Gehenna [hellfire] was symbolic of destruction.

Just as Psalm 92v7 says destruction or annihilation forever.
Destruction/ annihilation is not burning forever.

Aren't all in hell delivered up? - Rev 20vs13,14

 

[Etritonakin]

When the train is coming down the track, everybody jumps, in that moment, there are no enemies.

I was talking about you trying to build a better world based on this bovine excrement -it simply isn't true.

 

[Danny Heim]

I figure I'd share my verion of my bible, but just this once.

Wrote this a long time ago. Still pretty much fits.

1. We (human beings) are here on this earth to be “earth people”. Wherever a species is in the universe it is there to be what it is there, not somewhere else. What is right in front of us is god. The universe beats out a rhythm and has a pulse, the thing to do is to find the rhythm and pulse, which is right in front of you and will only be found by living in the physical moment.
2. What is in front you is what determines what one is suppose to do and be. Upon a reasonable awareness in life, you must first ask these questions, “Where am I? What am I in relation to where I am? Most of all, who am I? The trick is who you are may be in other universes doing other lives maybe as other species. So what? The only who you should ever be concerned about is the one you are where you are.
3. I am on earth, a Class M planet supporting carbon based life forms. My relationship to this planet is I am a member of the absolute dominant species, human beings. The natural inclination for me then is to assume that a human being is the care taker of this planet, the president so to speak. It’s basic scientific deduction.
4. There is no heaven; there is no hell. There is only life being lived: as a rock, as a rabbit, as a human being, as Gidutwnat on planet 4 in a galaxy called Adroit two trillion light years from earth. God is right in front of us; god is being lived right now at this moment. There is nothing necessarily special about this beyond the fact that it is happening. No need to look for heaven, no need to worry about hell, no need to raise your vibratory level, need to look for aliens to teach us. It is all right here, look only at what you see in front of you and then respond accordingly in the manner it is presented in its natural state.
5. All of the above boils down to one thing: be present, be where, what and who you are now and you will be god. We do not know god any other way, all other ways are false representations of being present here in the physical universe. There is no outer spiritual realm; there is no outer cosmic plain; just the physical universe. You are in it somewhere. And YOU will always be in it somewhere for eternity.

 

[Etritonakin]

Well, there you have it. If we were to rely on solid building material, we would surely come around and have a chance. The only thing close to solid material we have now comes from science, not religion. We are confused and think it's the other way around. When the bovine excrement hits the fan, we may see it differently, we can hope for that anyway.

Religion isn't the problem. Those who truly strive to keep the commandments aren't the problem. Men have been fighting against each other for a very long time -only occasionally about religion, but science has been good enough to give us better and better weapons -and the means to destroy all life.
Kudos, science!

Science doesn't mean much in the absence of scientists.

 

[Etritonakin]

I figure I'd share my verion of my bible, but just this once.

Wrote this a long time ago. Still pretty much fits.

1. We (human beings) are here on this earth to be “earth people”. Wherever a species is in the universe it is there to be what it is there, not somewhere else. What is right in front of us is god. The universe beats out a rhythm and has a pulse, the thing to do is to find the rhythm and pulse, which is right in front of you and will only be found by living in the physical moment.
2. What is in front you is what determines what one is suppose to do and be. Upon a reasonable awareness in life, you must first ask these questions, “Where am I? What am I in relation to where I am? Most of all, who am I? The trick is who you are may be in other universes doing other lives maybe as other species. So what? The only who you should ever be concerned about is the one you are where you are.
3. I am on earth, a Class M planet supporting carbon based life forms. My relationship to this planet is I am a member of the absolute dominant species, human beings. The natural inclination for me then is to assume that a human being is the care taker of this planet, the president so to speak. It’s basic scientific deduction.
4. There is no heaven; there is no hell. There is only life being lived: as a rock, as a rabbit, as a human being, as Gidutwnat on planet 4 in a galaxy called Adroit two trillion light years from earth. God is right in front of us; god is being lived right now at this moment. There is nothing necessarily special about this beyond the fact that it is happening. No need to look for heaven, no need to worry about hell, no need to raise your vibratory level, need to look for aliens to teach us. It is all right here, look only at what you see in front of you and then respond accordingly in the manner it is presented in its natural state.
5. All of the above boils down to one thing: be present, be where, what and who you are now and you will be god. We do not know god any other way, all other ways are false representations of being present here in the physical universe. There is no outer spiritual realm; there is no outer cosmic plain; just the physical universe. You are in it somewhere. And YOU will always be in it somewhere for eternity.

Yah -when you put it that way -maybe there's hope for us after all. Who could not be convinced that this is the answer to our problems????

 

[Etritonakin]

The fire which consumed those who sought Elijah was not figurative -nor is the lake of fire. It is not for those who simply, sincerely, have trouble doing the right thing -but make no mistake, God will not hesitate to burn you if your intent is wilfully evil.

 

[Benoni]

Well I know I am a newbe but I hope at least you read my post; i feel it is very relevant and agreement with your post.

 

[Hawkins]

The word for hellfire is not sheol or hades but Gehenna.
Gehenna was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and not kept burning forever.

The people would have been familiar with Gehenna and could relate that Gehenna [hellfire] was symbolic of destruction.

Just as Psalm 92v7 says destruction or annihilation forever.
Destruction/ annihilation is not burning forever.

Aren't all in hell delivered up? - Rev 20vs13,14

That's a yes and no. Gehenna is used as hellfire by Jesus Christ. But before Jesus Christ, such as in Isaiah the concept of hellfire is already in. And other religious documents of the Jews, such a teaching seems to be even more obivous.

"And in those days they will be led to the Abyss of fire, in torture and in prison they will be locked for eternity." - a quote from the Book of Enoch

 

[Hawkins]

And so it goes for Krishna, about a billion people in fact. There is much to learn in just that fact alone. And that is, what you endear to Jesus, others endear to Krishna and Buddha. Do you really think the relationship you have with Jesus is anymore special than mine to the universe? Or a Hindu to Krishna? Please say no.

Yes, to me they are totally different. Actually I prepare a list to show this, but someone feel offended coz he's not a follower of Christ.

 

[Benoni]

The fire which consumed those who sought Elijah was not figurative -nor is the lake of fire. It is not for those who simply, sincerely, have trouble doing the right thing -but make no mistake, God will not hesitate to burn you if your intent is wilfully evil.

This is true with Elijah; but was Elijah being punished? The Lake of Fire is not a punishment process for he who overcome will not be hurt by the second death, the second death is the Lake of Fire.

The fire in The Lake of Fire is very figurative. The Lake of Fire is in the Book of Revelation which is the most spiritual book in the Bible. John was in Spirit on the Lords' day. Nothing is mentioned about John being literal in any sense of the word.




Revelations 1: 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, (not the tradition of religion) which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:



Webster Dictionary: : signified Function: noun
: a concept or meaning as distinguished from the sign through which it is communicated -- compare

Revelation is not a history book or even book of the future it is a spiritual revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Benoni]

Yes, to me they are totally different. Actually I prepare a list to show this, but someone feel offended coz he's not a follower of Christ.

There is a pattern in scripture; when ever some one goes east he is aways going away from the presence of God; this is true scripturally as well as in the natural world. East of Eden, Adam when eastward,

 

[Danny Heim]

Yes, to me they are totally different. Actually I prepare a list to show this, but someone feel offended coz he's not a follower of Christ.

Ah go ahead Hawk, I'd like to hear what yuou have to say. I won't be offended I assure you. I can't speak for anyone else though. You haven't offended me as yet, I hope I've not offened you either.

 

[Danny Heim]

I think we agree on the dreadful fight thing.

In many ways it is already happening, strong beginnings anyway.

 

[Danny Heim]

I was talking about you trying to build a better world based on this bovine excrement -it simply isn't true.

Whatever material is available would suit me fine, as long as it gets us on the road. From my reading here I am less adamant about religion not being of help. It can help, and yes, it will take the people using religion in a much more refined way to make it useful. There has to be some sort of unity along with respect. But in order to accomplish what we need to adapt and evolve into our new world to come, it better have some binding power, that's all I can say. I still have a big reserve that it can happen within religion while within an evolving world, but maybe it can make it turn out even for the better. Truth is, I don’t know?? But I do know this; we need to hear a lot more “We don’t know.”

 

[Danny Heim]

Religion isn't the problem. Those who truly strive to keep the commandments aren't the problem. Men have been fighting against each other for a very long time -only occasionally about religion, but science has been good enough to give us better and better weapons -and the means to destroy all life.
Kudos, science!

Science doesn't mean much in the absence of scientists.

That is very true. And it's about time we start using science properly. That will be critical if we are going to get past the next 50 years. It is an absolute necessity for us to reach the next level that can handle 9 billion people. Religion will be a problem if it does not open up to this need, it's gotten a little better of recent, but there is a long way to go for what's needed.

 

[Danny Heim]

Yah -when you put it that way -maybe there's hope for us after all. Who could not be convinced that this is the answer to our problems????

This is not the answer to our problems, not at all. It's just my belief. I personally don't have answers, but we do.

 

[Danny Heim]

Well I know I am a newbe but I hope at least you read my post; i feel it is very relevant and agreement with your post.

Who are you talking to there Benoni? I have read your posts, they are interesting. Actually, I'd like to see you explain the following a little further:

"when ever some one goes east he is aways going away from the presence of God"