Let's talk about Hell

[Jacksnyte]

pin the tail on the donkey and poking it`s eye out......i like that one, it`s sweat!
i`m going to use that in the future!:yes:

Donkey sweat?!? ewww:devil:

 

[look3467]

it actually does, there are allot of facts I have left to learn about the mythical creation of hell.

You unfortunately are so far away from giving the answers to easy questions I ask,,, from lack of biblical knowledge. reading and posting scripture is not understanding scripture.

to be honest as possible, if we were playing pin the tail on the donkey you would have poked its eye out

That's true! You know why? If I were to see as you see, the tail would be pinned to the right place, where it belongs physical.

But as it was, I poked at the physical eye, so that perhaps the physical may look at things in the spiritual realm, rather than only the physical.

But you noticed it was only one eye poked? The reason for that was so that even still in the physical, the one eye has the reality of the physical and the other the spiritual.

How many of us have one of each?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Jacksnyte]

That's true! You know why? If I were to see as you see, the tail would be pinned to the right place, where it belongs physical.

But as it was, I poked at the physical eye, so that perhaps the physical may look at things in the spiritual realm, rather than only the physical.

But you noticed it was only one eye poked? The reason for that was so that even still in the physical, the one eye has the reality of the physical and the other the spiritual.

How many of us have one of each?

Blessings, AJ

Author of confusion? I think so!

 

[look3467]

Author of confusion? I think so!

Doesn't surprise me that you didn't understand what I said.

There is a spiritual eye as well as a physical eye. Many see with the physical eye but can not see with the spiritual eye because it is closed.

If we are fortunate to see with both, then we can see the glory of God in the things that are.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Jacksnyte]

Doesn't surprise me that you didn't understand what I said.

There is a spiritual eye as well as a physical eye. Many see with the physical eye but can not see with the spiritual eye because it is closed.

If we are fortunate to see with both, then we can see the glory of God in the things that are.

Blessings, AJ

I consult my pineal gland on a regular basis!

 

[outhouse]

this thread is about hell, its not a dance party seeing how far we can skip around it.

it doesnt need to be set up with a paragraph or three to get me in the right frame of mind to understand it.

hell evolved yes??? or no?? well absolutely yes it did

how did hell evolve???? it evolved from sheol which simply ment grave or pit. Then the myth hades was used but translates to grave or pit. Then the bible starte to use the term gehenna, which is the valley of hinom in which fires burned 24/7 for garbage and bodies of sinners are said to have been burnt there so there rotting bodies would not spread disease or stink up the place.

Now is that statement above true or false????

dont give me a paragraph, this is a true or false question.

TRUE

then a long long time after this the word hell started being used.

hell is a mythical place, that has never exsisted and of the 2 billion+ christians on the planet im sure most do not believe in the dogmatic hell preached today. This only puts a small percentage of people that believe in this myth.

in my opinion

 

[look3467]

I consult my pineal gland on a regular basis!

Definitely, non spiritual!

 

[look3467]

how did hell evolve???? it evolved from sheol which simply ment grave or pit. Then the myth hades was used but translates to grave or pit. Then the bible starte to use the term gehenna, which is the valley of hinom in which fires burned 24/7 for garbage and bodies of sinners are said to have been burnt there so there rotting bodies would not spread disease or stink up the place.

Now is that statement above true or false????

Are sitting down? Because I am going to agree with you!

All's physical true! But the spiritual?

You tell me about it, if you can.

Blessings, AJ

 

[outhouse]

But the spiritual?

im not as old as you, but im still not sure who has been a christian longer. Dont assume i have no knowledge of spirituality.

the spiritual side of hell evolved with the fiction. The fire and brimstone exploded in the NT as a way to force belief through fear based tactics.

if you really understand the hell of the OT then you will know THAT hell was nothing more then taking a dirt nap. Let me remind you this is by the people who created your god and all the myths surrounding it including hell. Hades is the myth of the god of the underworld, yes from pagans straight to your bible.

the only reason the hell you know is has fire and brimstone is from a physical place called the valley of hinom.

the fiction of hell is obvious no matter how clear it is i know you wont understand

 

[Beta]

And which church first introduced the idea of eternal torment in hell-fire ?
Does it not come from another false concept - that of man's immortal soul also taught by them ?
Neither of these ideas were taught by the early Apostles/Disciples but came from the council of Nicaea in 325 AD who established itself as the new 'christian' church in total contrast to the early Church Jesus started.
It is good to know that these are seriously false concepts but we should also know where they came from and who still teaches them today .

 

[outhouse]

heres the facts regarding hell

Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized.

• Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[23]
• Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[24] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[25]
• Tartaro (the verb "throw to Tartarus") occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of 200 fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife

The Straight Dope: Who invented Hell?

Hell is not a place, but a state of being in which you suffer from being away from God. To describe such a condition, the Pope said the Bible uses symbolic language. However, some non-Catholic Christians still believe Hell is a physical place where your soul burns in the lake of fire for eternity.
Did the Bible "originally state" that there is a place like Hell? Depends on what you mean by "originally." In the Old Testament, there was no "place of eternal damnation." There was Sheol, where everybody--good or bad--went after they died. It was, according to the U.S. News article, "a gloomy underworld realm , a morally neutral place akin to the Hades of ancient Greek mythology."
Things got messier from there. When the Hebrew text was translated into Greek, "Sheol" was replaced by "Hades." Then, when evolving Jewish and Christian beliefs began to emphasize resurrection, Hades became a place where only the nasty folks went.
OK, so there were two different names for this place. Now let's introduce a third, Gehenna, which early Christian teaching said was a fiery hell to which the wicked would be sent after judgment. The root of the word refers to the Valley of Hinnom, a location "south of Jerusalem, where trash fires burned incessantly and where ancient human sacrifices had been offered to Canaanite gods." (U.S. News) The Book of Revelation took this a step further by saying those evil folks would be "thrown into a lake of fire."
So far, no mention of "Hell." That changed when the Bible was translated into English. Many versions render Sheol, Hades, and Gehenna as Hell. The New Testament also refers to "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and a place where the "worm never dies and the fire is never quenched," and things like that.
Theologians and philosophers debate whether Hell is a physical place or a state of mind, and, if a real place, whether souls really burn for eternity or are consumed by the flames. Some say the Bible's references to "eternal destruction" and "the second death" mean a person's soul is destroyed rather than tortured. Evangelical scholar Clark Pinnock asked in the Criswell Theological Review, "How can Christians possibly project a deity of such cruelty and vindictiveness" that He would visit "everlasting torture upon his creatures?" He says a God who would do that is "more nearly like Satan." Author and clergyman Philip Hughes says the belief in everlasting punishment owes more to pagan Greek notions than the Bible. Others disagree, referring to the Bible's notion of "everlasting punishment," for example.
Many religions besides Christianity have their own versions of Hell. According to a U.S. News sidebar, Islam has a crater of fire, Hinduism has 21 hells to "burn away bad karma," and Buddhism has hells along the road to nirvana. Jainism has 8.4 million hells (damn!), and Taoism has a few too.
Getting back to your question, did the Bible "originally" mention a place of eternal damnation? No, if you mean "originally" as in the Old Testament. Yes, if you mean some versions of the New Testament. And theological interpretation could take it either way.
Like so much else when you get into religion, it turns into a big debate, complicated by translation issues and whether a given passage is literal or figurative.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Bible hell is sheol [Hebrew] and hades [Greek]
Was the Bible hell invented or just came into being with the death of: Abel ?

Abel was the first one to be buried in mankind's common grave [sheol/hades]
and as Acts 24v15 says there will be a resurrection of the just and unjust.
So, Abel will be part of the resurrection of the just or righteous ones.

Hebrew OT Scriptures such as Psalm 92v7 mentions eternal punishment as destroyed forever or annihilation of the wicked. Wicked are destroyed including sinner Satan.
Hebrews 2v14 B
Proverbs 2vs21,22.
Psalm 37vs11,29,38.
Revelation 11v18 B

 

[outhouse]

The Bible hell is sheol [Hebrew] and hades [Greek]
Was the Bible hell invented or just came into being with the death of: Abel ?

Abel was the first one to be buried in mankind's common grave [sheol/hades]
and as Acts 24v15 says there will be a resurrection of the just and unjust.
So, Abel will be part of the resurrection of the just or righteous ones.

Hebrew OT Scriptures such as Psalm 92v7 mentions eternal punishment as destroyed forever or annihilation of the wicked. Wicked are destroyed including sinner Satan.
Hebrews 2v14 B
Proverbs 2vs21,22.
Psalm 37vs11,29,38.
Revelation 11v18 B

And how does this relate with what I have already posted??? in your words.

 

[look3467]

im not as old as you, but im still not sure who has been a christian longer. Dont assume i have no knowledge of spirituality.>>>outhouse

Christian longer? I have issues in understanding how you can say " Let me remind you this is by the people who created your god" and claim that you are a Christian to?"

My God: is it not the same God that you and I, being Christians for a long time, have?

Having knowledge of, is not the same as in trusting, believing and relying on Jesus as your Redeemer, friend Savior and God.

The world knows of God, for the world can hear it just about every where, but doesn't mean they will place their complete trust in God's Jesus.

the spiritual side of hell evolved with the fiction. The fire and brimstone exploded in the NT as a way to force belief through fear based tactics.

I will agree as long as the word hell is used to instead of a prison.

Ref: Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

In order for the Son of God to become the redeemer, there must first be a need.

The whole of God's work was creation and salvation. Between those two are all that we argue about.

if you really understand the hell of the OT then you will know THAT hell was nothing more then taking a dirt nap. Let me remind you this is by the people who created your god and all the myths surrounding it including hell. Hades is the myth of the god of the underworld, yes from pagans straight to your bible.

nothing more then taking a dirt nap,

In what state were they lying there, asleep, or as the verse I quoted above, "they shall be gathered together"?

To be consistent with the works of God, those gathered together were in a prison on hold until God would visit them, for the express purpose of liberation.

They could not be liberated until the penalty of death was paid in full for all of them.

the only reason the hell you know is has fire and brimstone is from a physical place called the valley of hinom.

I use it only in how it is referenced as by some.

the fiction of hell is obvious no matter how clear it is i know you wont understand

Funny, I thought the same about you, the not understanding part.

So, as "Christians for some time" can we agree to respect each others views on hell and give glory to the God of Creation?

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And how does this relate with what I have already posted??? in your words.

Relates to the question was hell invented, and Isaiah 66v24 whether worms have everlasting life or not.

'worms will not die' does not mean worms live forever, but as the imagery of fire is symbolic so too are the worms. As fire consumes, what the symbolic fire does not destroy the worms will get.

Isaiah 34v10 mentions smoke going up forever. We know no city burns forever but by saying the smoke from it goes up forever means total destruction or annihilation,

So the imagery of fire is not consistent with the grave, sheol/hades [hell], where the dead sleep until the resurrection, but consistent with the fiery Gehenna garbage dump where things were destroyed and not kept burning forever. Consistent with the 'second death' of Revelation.
Rev 20vs13,14.

 

[outhouse]

Relates to the question was hell invented, and Isaiah 66v24 whether worms have everlasting life or not.

'worms will not die' does not mean worms live forever, but as the imagery of fire is symbolic so too are the worms. As fire consumes, what the symbolic fire does not destroy the worms will get.

what this is saying in mythological way is that the fires of gehenna that burn bodies and trash burns 24/7 and there is enough garbage there worms are always present.

 

[outhouse]

Isaiah 34v10 mentions smoke going up forever. We know no city burns forever but by saying the smoke from it goes up forever means total destruction or annihilation,

wrong

the burning garbage was said to burn 24/7 not the city. The valley of hinom or gehhena was not a city.

Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[24] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.

 

[outhouse]

give glory to the God of Creation?

Hell no, thats bull puckey. You dont force your beliefs/imagination on others.

god is not a creator he is a myth in my opinion,, humans evolved this is a fact.

genesis is fiction and like allot of the rest of the bible the religious dogma is fiction as well.

if you knew how the bible was really put together you would understand it was written by ancient man for ancient man. There is no divinity involved in the bibles creation. in my opinion

 

[outhouse]

heres the facts regarding hell

Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized.

• Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[23]
• Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[24] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[25]
• Tartaro (the verb "throw to Tartarus") occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of 200 fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife

The Straight Dope: Who invented Hell?

Hell is not a place, but a state of being in which you suffer from being away from God. To describe such a condition, the Pope said the Bible uses symbolic language. However, some non-Catholic Christians still believe Hell is a physical place where your soul burns in the lake of fire for eternity.
Did the Bible "originally state" that there is a place like Hell? Depends on what you mean by "originally." In the Old Testament, there was no "place of eternal damnation." There was Sheol, where everybody--good or bad--went after they died. It was, according to the U.S. News article, "a gloomy underworld realm , a morally neutral place akin to the Hades of ancient Greek mythology."
Things got messier from there. When the Hebrew text was translated into Greek, "Sheol" was replaced by "Hades." Then, when evolving Jewish and Christian beliefs began to emphasize resurrection, Hades became a place where only the nasty folks went.
OK, so there were two different names for this place. Now let's introduce a third, Gehenna, which early Christian teaching said was a fiery hell to which the wicked would be sent after judgment. The root of the word refers to the Valley of Hinnom, a location "south of Jerusalem, where trash fires burned incessantly and where ancient human sacrifices had been offered to Canaanite gods." (U.S. News) The Book of Revelation took this a step further by saying those evil folks would be "thrown into a lake of fire."
So far, no mention of "Hell." That changed when the Bible was translated into English. Many versions render Sheol, Hades, and Gehenna as Hell. The New Testament also refers to "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and a place where the "worm never dies and the fire is never quenched," and things like that.
Theologians and philosophers debate whether Hell is a physical place or a state of mind, and, if a real place, whether souls really burn for eternity or are consumed by the flames. Some say the Bible's references to "eternal destruction" and "the second death" mean a person's soul is destroyed rather than tortured. Evangelical scholar Clark Pinnock asked in the Criswell Theological Review, "How can Christians possibly project a deity of such cruelty and vindictiveness" that He would visit "everlasting torture upon his creatures?" He says a God who would do that is "more nearly like Satan." Author and clergyman Philip Hughes says the belief in everlasting punishment owes more to pagan Greek notions than the Bible. Others disagree, referring to the Bible's notion of "everlasting punishment," for example.
Many religions besides Christianity have their own versions of Hell. According to a U.S. News sidebar, Islam has a crater of fire, Hinduism has 21 hells to "burn away bad karma," and Buddhism has hells along the road to nirvana. Jainism has 8.4 million hells (damn!), and Taoism has a few too.
Getting back to your question, did the Bible "originally" mention a place of eternal damnation? No, if you mean "originally" as in the Old Testament. Yes, if you mean some versions of the New Testament. And theological interpretation could take it either way.
Like so much else when you get into religion, it turns into a big debate, complicated by translation issues and whether a given passage is literal or figurative.

I think you should both read this again and go to the links provided and learn the real creation and evolution of the term hell.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

wrong

the burning garbage was said to burn 24/7 not the city. The valley of hinom or gehhena was not a city.

Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[24] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.

The wicked are not resurrected. -Acts 24v15.
The wicked are destroyed. -Psalm 92v7

The fire was kept burning, but what was thrown into the fire did Not keep burning. Once the object was burnt up it did not continue burning but became ashes. Just like smoke does not go up forever. [Isa 34v10] Burning of the same object does not burn forever. So the smoke going up forever is symbolic of destruction just as Gehenna is symbolic of destruction.

Isn't garbage destroyed and not kept forever?
Wicked Satan will have no resurrection. Satan will be destroyed Heb. 2v14 B.