Let's talk about Hell

[outhouse]

That's what happens with people who have no understanding of the truth. The truth is that everyone lives forever.

knowingthe truth about hell, means you understand the fiction behind hell.

no one lives forever


now please debate how hell started out as sheol or hades in the OT and progressed to what you think hell is.

please tell me how and when your god chanmged the basement around.

so far not one so called christian religious person's has had a clue about the reality of hell. Are they disvcounting the OT against god and jesus will????

 

[thevoiceofgod]

Very simple, God created, mankind fell short of that creation in the making, judgment was passed because of that (Death) and penalty exacted.

God created us in his image which is invisible thoughts. Then we're born in the flesh to live according to God's plans. God's plan for this age was to corrupt all flesh and make sure they die. That's why the only penalty for sin is death. When the flesh of a man dies, his soul (thoughts) remain in the thoughts of God where he's always been. In the next age of paradise, then all God's created beings will get new bodies to live forever.

Genesis 1
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
　
Genesis 2
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

God recreated not the physical, because that He already did, hence the life you now have, but the spiritual side of our existence.

I already gave you the correct interpretations of this above. You shouldn't be speaking at all about God and his plans. You have no authority to interpret his words.

The spiritual side became dead (Separated from God) as the story of the casting out of Adam and Eve.

Do you think the spirit of God can die? We're all created in the spirit to live forever. It's the flesh that dies during this age so that the soul of a man can be freed to live in the next age of paradise.

God Himself provided the ransom for us all in one body, instead of all of us, you and I don't have to face.

The Word of God used the flesh of all the prophets, Jesus and us saints to speak for him. Most of the prophets were killed for speaking the Word and Jesus and us saints are killed for preaching the gospel, which his the voice of God. Everyone has to die during this age and the flesh of Jesus made it possible for all God's people to live forever in paradise.

Hell, or whatever you want to define it as, has a place in the works of God.

There is no hell but the earth's crust is going to melt by hot molten lava and everything on earth will be melted into it. Most people will die long before they are cremated in this lake of fire.

God could not allow departed spirits into His kingdom until such time that He would eliminate death. (Spiritual death)

Since God created us within his thoughts, we will always remain in him. We can only experience our created life when we have a body that can speak, hear, smell, see, taste and touch.

Hence the holding place.

Because Jesus came to pay the price for us all, by paying the price of death for us all, opened up the prisons gates, and the gates of heaven and now we all have access to God directly.

You have no idea what's going on so I suggest that you don't try teach anyone about the things of God. All you do is confuse them. The flesh of Jesus was needed as a sacrifice at that moment so that the chosen ones of God could be made sinless and preach the same gospel as Jesus did. I happen to be preaching the last gospel before the end of this age, then then end will come after I'm killed. Since we were all created together as the Word, we all have to be sacrificed before the end comes. Then death will be swallowed up forever when all the flesh of man is destroyed.

No priests needed, for we have one high priest, He being Jesus as our God.

The problem with your statement here is that only sinless saints know who Jesus Christ is. No religious person on earth has ever met the true Lord.
Ref: Gates, OT Psa 107:16 For he hath broken the gates of brass, (Heavens gates)and cut the bars of iron (Holding place) in sunder.

Heavens gates were shut to where no man could open save God Himself.

The Word of God is heaven and all of creation belong to us. We're all in heaven while we're experiencing our lives in the physical world but the sinful flesh kept a veil between the truth and the flesh of a man. It was impossible for him to know who he was in his created form and who God is. When he gets a new body in paradise, then he'll understand who he is and know that the Word of God is ruling the new world in the bodies of the former prophets, Jesus and us saints.

And the gates of the holding place no man could break, save God Himself.

God is in total control of all his creation through the Word. We all live according to his plans for us so if you were born to be a sinner, than you have no choice but to sin. If you were born a chosen one of his, then you will listen to the gospel I preach until he makes you a sinless saint.
That is it!

Now, definitions are for our own interests to research and seek out the truth.

Those who honestly seek for the truth shall find it, but for those looking for loop-holes will have a hard time at it.

You are seriously uninformed of who God is and how he works with his people. No man can find the truth and that's the reason no one knows the truth on this earth today except for the one writing this comment. God gives the truth to his chosen ones that he planned before creation. The prophets are his chosen ones but they came before Jesus could die for the forgiveness of all sins. They never did have the true revealed in them but Jesus was born with the knowledge of God because his body was made sinless before conception. God changed his parent's seed so it was impossible for him to be a sinner. After he died, then us saints became sinless so we could have the knowledge of God, which is the truth. This required a lot of humiliation, pain and crying to get our genetic traits changed by God so that we can never sin again.

Blessings, AJ[/quote]

 

[look3467]

there you go getting all sideways heading off in another direction.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HELL not heaven please answer questions regarding hell

this is per your scripture

Let me reference you to the following words: Pit = Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Can you give me an idea of whom this verse is speaking about and to what hell is in reference to?

Graves =Eze 32:23 Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.

So we have pit, as hell as well as the graves. So far no reference to some eternal prison of which I speak of right?

2Sa 22:6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
Hmmm... hell here is an on going thing as "compassed me about"?

= A great gulf span between the two? Job 11:8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?

Hell = nakedness/destruction Job 26:6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Selective hell? Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
And the good? Where do they go if this reference is the grave?

Not leave my soul in hell = Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

The bible tells us that the body of Jesus was not left in hell, if here meant the grave, because came out of the tomb, meaning His body did not see corruption as like our does.

So what reference is hell in that verse meant?

You mean that there is degrees of hell? Psa 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

Pro 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

We shall begin now to paint the picture of just where this place is begining with this verse as prphecied: Pro 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
"beat him with the rod" in reference to Jesus being beaten by man (rule of man).
But God shall deliver His soul from hell.

Jesus was buried in a tomb as the custom was, so that reference of hell there does not apply.

This one applies to Jesus: Again prophesied: Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Hmmmm..; like in .....they are all waiting? For what?

Looks like the strong among the mighty speak to whom, as perhaps a place where they are trapped in and in need of escape?

Eze 32:21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.

Who is it that they are waiting for? Is it because they are like prisoners of something they themselves can not find the way of escape?

The one crying out of the Belly of hell? Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

This Jesus, as like all others sent to hell (The abode of the departed spirits without escape) with the sins of the whole world to deliver them from their prison: Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

You mean, from the grave, the pit, sheol, or whatever term one wants to define what transpired as not being a prison or a holding place?

The reason why Jesus was raised on the third day?

Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Keys to the grave....you think?

Or do you suppose to something other than the grave, like a prison maybe? Hmmm...keys = something to unlock or lock?

We still all die don't we? We still go down to the grave or get cremated?

Then what is the difference?

You want to stick to definitions, then guess what?

That where you will remain without any understanding.

If after what I just pointed out to you does not interest you any, then I have nothing else to say.

I heard a story once about two boys leaning by a large wood fence guarding a big bra-ma bull grasing in the pasture.

The one said to the other in a challenge, daring him to just go inside the fence to test his bravery.
Of course, not to show fear, he stepped in side the fenced area.

Seeing that he did it, the other boy said, well....get close to the bull.

He did. still nothing happened.

The challenger said yet again, grab the bulls tail.

Oh, I get it said the he, what you want is for the bull to attack me with his horns.

The point is that unless the bull (Hell word) attacks me directly, you will not believe a word I say.

It is evident, that the bull would give me allot of hell if I just pull his tail.

But as it is, I know without pulling his tail what hell really is, and you are still prompting.

Sorry, that's the way it is.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

God created us in his image which is invisible thoughts. Then we're born in the flesh to live according to God's plans. God's plan for this age was to corrupt all flesh and make sure they die. That's why the only penalty for sin is death. When the flesh of a man dies, his soul (thoughts) remain in the thoughts of God where he's always been. In the next age of paradise, then all God's created beings will get new bodies to live forever.>>>thevoiceofgod

OK, I'll go along with that, not because that is the way I see it, but because you are at least giving God the credit for your existence after this one.

Quote:
God recreated not the physical, because that He already did, hence the life you now have, but the spiritual side of our existence.
I already gave you the correct interpretations of this above. You shouldn't be speaking at all about God and his plans. You have no authority to interpret his words.

Then what was the purpose of Jesus' coming?

Quote:
The spiritual side became dead (Separated from God) as the story of the casting out of Adam and Eve.
Do you think the spirit of God can die? We're all created in the spirit to live forever. It's the flesh that dies during this age so that the soul of a man can be freed to live in the next age of paradise.

The purpose of Jesus was that Jesus alone would die instead of you , , and the whole of mankind.

Hence eliminating hell and death for us?

Jesus spirit being God's spirit could not die, He being the creator, but ours? Yes, ours (The created)became dead thus requiring our revival.

Quote:
God Himself provided the ransom for us all in one body, instead of all of us, you and I don't have to face.
The Word of God used the flesh of all the prophets, Jesus and us saints to speak for him. Most of the prophets were killed for speaking the Word and Jesus and us saints are killed for preaching the gospel, which his the voice of God. Everyone has to die during this age and the flesh of Jesus made it possible for all God's people to live forever in paradise.

I'll agree with you to this point, that God spoke to us by the prophets, but Jesus was more than a prophet, He was the Son of the living God, and YES, Jesus made it possible for us to live forever!

Quote:
Hell, or whatever you want to define it as, has a place in the works of God.
There is no hell but the earth's crust is going to melt by hot molten lava and everything on earth will be melted into it. Most people will die long before they are cremated in this lake of fire.

Hell defined as you put it? Yes!

God could not allow departed spirits into His kingdom until such time that He would eliminate death. (Spiritual death)

Since God created us within his thoughts, we will always remain in him. We can only experience our created life when we have a body that can speak, hear, smell, see, taste and touch.

We could not always remain in Him, otherwise, Jesus would never had to come, if it was as you say.

Quote:
Because Jesus came to pay the price for us all, by paying the price of death for us all, opened up the prisons gates, and the gates of heaven and now we all have access to God directly.



You have no idea what's going on so I suggest that you don't try teach anyone about the things of God. All you do is confuse them. The flesh of Jesus was needed as a sacrifice at that moment so that the chosen ones of God could be made sinless and preach the same gospel as Jesus did. I happen to be preaching the last gospel before the end of this age, then then end will come after I'm killed. Since we were all created together as the Word, we all have to be sacrificed before the end comes. Then death will be swallowed up forever when all the flesh of man is destroyed.

"You have no idea what's going on so I suggest that you don't try teach anyone about the things of God"...... and you go by "thevoiceofgod"?

Maybe you ought to think up of another name cause surely, you are not the voice of God, and are not in any place to pronounce judgment as if you were.
Sorry to say that, but that's the way I see it.

Quote:
No priests needed, for we have one high priest, He being Jesus as our God.
The problem with your statement here is that only sinless saints know who Jesus Christ is. No religious person on earth has ever met the true Lord.

Those whop walked with Jesus knew the true Lord after Pentecost. And those of us who believe know Him as our personal Savior. For He Jesus has revealed to us the true nature of God the Father.

We're all in heaven while we're experiencing our lives in the physical world

That's news to me! Are you sure you're the voice of God?

God is in total control of all his creation through the Word. We all live according to his plans for us so if you were born to be a sinner, than you have no choice but to sin. If you were born a chosen one of his, then you will listen to the gospel I preach until he makes you a sinless saint.

That is it!

That's it?

You are seriously uninformed of who God is and how he works with his people.

Well, believe what you want. preach what you want, but this guy ain't buying it.

Blessings, AJ

 

[outhouse]

LOTS OF WRITING but you still wont answer my questions. dont ask any because if you cant answer mine, yours will not get answered.

now please debate how hell started out as sheol or hades in the OT and progressed to what you think hell is.?????

please tell me how and when your god changed the basement around.

so far not one so called christian religious person's has had a clue about the reality of hell. Are they disvcounting the OT against god and jesus will????

 

[micrurus]

[youtube]urlTBBKTO68[/youtube]
YouTube - An Atheist Meets God

 

[outhouse]

can average christians look at history with a open eye? or an open mind???

this is simply a historical question and not faith related.

 

[slowbreath]

a god that would send a person to an eternal suffering just because they didnt believe in him or obey some of his rules, and thats also known as a merciful god........boy! i`d hate to catch him on a bad day.
anyways, sign me up, i want that god..........who wouldnt?

 

[look3467]

a god that would send a person to an eternal suffering just because they didnt believe in him or obey some of his rules, and thats also known as a merciful god........boy! i`d hate to catch him on a bad day.
anyways, sign me up, i want that god..........who wouldnt?

Because we were created as gods, we were accountable to everything physical and eternal. Hence eternal death?

The design required it in order to give us the ability to be as gods.

The holding place that has evolved in to,an eternal hell fire and torment condition by church writers, was active until which time God would "change the basement", quoting
outhouse.
The change took place at the cross.

The "cross" is the termination of one administration and the introduction of a new.

The whole of the bible with Christ as the center piece, is really the real beginning of life.

The beginning of the physical was with the first administration which brought a death sentence to us all.

In the second administration, the new one, life was granted us all.

That is the difference between the two.

Now, those who hold to Old Testament terminology, rules, practices are in their minds, still under the old administration and still in the dead state.

Alive in the flesh, yet dead spiritually.

It is not until knowledge of the new administration is eaten, digested that life begins.

Life begins with the acquisition of the spirit of God by being born again from a dead state.

That part is hard for many to understand because they are still, in their minds holding to Old Testament words sayings and stories.

The Old Testament sets the foundation for the second and should be lo0oked at for just that.

The change is in with the second administration, Jesus' administration because the new foundation laid has to do with God securing our salvation by paying for us the price of eternal death.

Understanding of that simple view is clouded up by many different views of what mankind thinks for what ever motives they have.

For the unbelievers, particular verses jump out at them giving them amo to discredit the loving God as unjust, mean God.

For those who want to control the masses, use fear of eternal fire and torment, and either heaven or hell as absolutes.

So whose responsibility is then for finding the correct and straight truth of God's existence and His relationship with mankind?

Yours!!!!!!!

You are a god, created as an individual entity with reasoning powers to make judgments between two opposing sides.

That could have never happen if we were not first given that enabling.

And it was after that enabling that the vanity of this earth was established for the trial of our decision making.

So goes the story of Adam and Eve, given the choice to either eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or not.

The next story is of Jesus, who with the choice we already squired by the first Adam, are given a choice to again choose Him over the world.

The difference between both trees, the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life is, death and life respectively.

The sciences, being all physically oriented, can not see any spiritual significance or than to maybe conclude of a higher unidentified existence of a higher intelligence.

The two are like oil and water, they don't mix but are definitely needed in this world.

If one want it all to be just oil, then the water is looked at as inconsequential and visa-versa.


When life is over here in the physical plane, the one will be left behing while the other will continue to exist in another plane.


Blessings, AJ

 

[outhouse]

a god that would send a person to an eternal suffering just because they didnt believe in him or obey some of his rules, and thats also known as a merciful god........boy! i`d hate to catch him on a bad day.
anyways, sign me up, i want that god..........who wouldnt?

on a bad day he is said to have murdered almost every inoccent man woman and child and animal and everything that had a pulse with a flood if you believe the fiction.

 

[look3467]

on a bad day he is said to have murdered almost every inoccent man woman and child and animal and everything that had a pulse with a flood if you believe the fiction.

Truth or fiction? May or may not have occurred.

let me give you another one and you tell me if you think it was true or just fiction.

Has to do with Jericho.

Jos 6:2 And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, (1)I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour.
Jos 6:3 And (2)ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus (3)shalt thou do six days.
Jos 6:4 And (4)seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the (5) seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.
Jos 6:5 And (6) it shall come to pass, that (7)when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and (8) when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and (9)the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and (10)the people shall ascend up every man straight before him.

Is there evidences of such a wall?

OK, now for the spiritual significance of this story whether this story was real or fiction, the spiritual message still applies as a truth.

In sequence
(1) "I have given into thine hand Jericho" =the earth and all it's contents
(2) "ye shall compass the city" = compass here meaning: that the seven day creation story shall be included and "city" meaning Jericho or the whole of creation.
(3) "shalt thou do six days" = all this shall be done in one day, the compassing, the inclusion of the 7 day creation story as the six days of Gods work.
(4) "seven priests, seven trumpets" = the whole seven day creation story as one as seen in the next sequence number.
(5) " seventh day" specifically, the seventh day as one day "ye shall compass the city seven times"
(6) "it shall come to pass" the day is noted in the bible as "That day", and referencing the day Jesus died on the cross.
(7) "when they make a long blast with the ram's horn" = Israel's compliance completed.
(8) "when ye hear the sound of the trumpet" = Jesus crying out at the cross with His last breath.
(9) "the wall of the city shall fall down flat" = the veil to the Holiest of Holies ripped in half from top to bottom.
(10) "the people shall ascend up every man straight before him" = those in the holding prison, liberated to ascend before Christ to the heavenly' s.

This same picture and many others are a picture of "that Day" the day of the Lord in which Jesus worked to liberate us all from the penalty of eternal death.

Can you see the picture as a spiritual message more so than a real life happening?

I don't know whether it really happened or not, but the message to me is very real.

So, if you have eyes to see, you shall see.

Isa 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

Blessings, AJ

 

[outhouse]

now please debate how hell started out as sheol or hades in the OT and progressed to what you think hell is.?????

please tell me how and when your god changed the basement around.

so far not one so called christian religious person's has had a clue about the reality of hell. Are they disvcounting the OT against god and jesus will????

 

[outhouse]

the day of the Lord in which Jesus worked to liberate us all from the penalty of eternal death

im not asking for the chritian spin put on hell. I want to know about the how the fiction of hell was put together 700ad

I have showed the path from sheol, hades, gehenna to hell over a 1700 year period hell evolved at every step from pagan myths

 

[look3467]

im not asking for the chritian spin put on hell. I want to know about the how the fiction of hell was put together 700ad

I have showed the path from sheol, hades, gehenna to hell over a 1700 year period hell evolved at every step from pagan myths

I understand fully your question.

But in the answer you are seeking you will not see the picture.

I was looking at a documentary film on one of the early church clergy who was struggling with the issue of universal salvation.

He had the withal to information that many folks didn't, being in the clergy.

He had discovered universal salvation of which he had to address the church it's findings in the form of churches ideological views.

He wrestled with it for 72 hours, until he arrived at what he thought the best conclusion.

The conclusion was based on these truths: If I tell the people that they are all saved, they will feel free to sin all they want without care.

But if i tell them that hell awaits them and Heaven has to be earned, then they will be more inclined to do good, out of fear of hell.

To that end, hell took on a dreadful place, one which mankind ought not to go, but to fear.

There were no exceptions, heaven or hell, the burden was on the individual shoulders, leaving God to be the judge.

Hence the picture of St Peter at the pearly gates?

But I tell you, that hell is no such place to fear, for it was mainly a holding place that was eliminated by the death of Jesus.

Hell really is, here on this earth, because here it is where we catch it all. directly and indirectly.

But for any of us to burn eternally as believed: not going to happen!

Jesus saw to that!

Blessings, AJ

 

[outhouse]

But in the answer you are seeking you will not see the picture.

i already know the truth, i dont find it fun watching you or the rest dance all around it.

your storys and long winded post are meaning nothing at all when avoiding the reality of mythical hell

 

[outhouse]

I gotta ask. How’d this idea ever get this far?

this is from post #1 from the OP

he wants to know fow the fiction got so dang fictional.

 

[look3467]

i already know the truth, i dont find it fun watching you or the rest dance all around it.

your storys and long winded post are meaning nothing at all when avoiding the reality of mythical hell

If you already know the truth, why then bother to ask?

By you knowing the truth, any one can talk till their blue in the face and won't matter to you.

But I tell you what........there are folks who read and may be influenced by anything some one says, not necessarily mine, nor yours, but someone else.

That is why I sort of resigned myself from trying to explain it as simply as I could, but when one claims to "know the truth", it doesn't leave much room, if any, for an argument.

Blessings, AJ

 

[outhouse]

it doesn't leave much room, if any, for an argument.

it actually does, there are allot of facts I have left to learn about the mythical creation of hell.

You unfortunately are so far away from giving the answers to easy questions I ask,,, from lack of biblical knowledge. reading and posting scripture is not understanding scripture.

to be honest as possible, if we were playing pin the tail on the donkey you would have poked its eye out

 

[slowbreath]

on a bad day he is said to have murdered almost every inoccent man woman and child and animal and everything that had a pulse with a flood if you believe the fiction.

i forgot about that one......that was a bad day. kinda makes one wonder if this god periodically tortures and murders humans in wholesale slaughters, then is the real purpose to life to exsit merely for the pleasure of him to torture or kill you?

sign me up, i gotta get some of that, who wouldnt!

 

[slowbreath]

it actually does, there are allot of facts I have left to learn about the mythical creation of hell.

You unfortunately are so far away from giving the answers to easy questions I ask,,, from lack of biblical knowledge. reading and posting scripture is not understanding scripture.

to be honest as possible, if we were playing pin the tail on the donkey you would have poked its eye out

pin the tail on the donkey and poking it`s eye out......i like that one, it`s sweat!
i`m going to use that in the future!:yes: