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Let's talk about Hell
- Thread starter Danny Heim
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Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Good morals comes from reason and compassion, which are innate qualities in humans (assuming they're emotionally/mentally healthy). Being aware and mindful of our character and conduct doesn't require a cloud surfing wizard. It all ties into honor, integrity and self-worth.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
"God", as portrayed by the judeochristian bible, is hardly the embodiment of justice and benevolence. I mean really, sanctioning the selling of ones own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:7-11)? And sending two bears to maul a crowd of children to death over something so silly and petty (2 kings 2:23-25)? How can people read that **** and then continue to use it as a moral compass?
Made my case.
Absolutely!
If you take self out of the life's equation, what remains?
Blessings, AJ
Having understanding to see what they really mean is lacking.
Let's take the first one: Exodus 21:7-11Exo 21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
Exo 21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
Exo 21:9 And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
Exo 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
Exo 21:11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
That is a picture of the Christ depicted in that story.
The men selling his daughter is Judas selling Jesus out for 30 pieces of silver to: The high priests.
Because Jesus did not please the intents of the high priests ideology, He was allowed to be redeemed, meaning to a strange nation (Gentile world).
And if this strange nation takes (her) Jesus in, Jesus shall be as like his own daughters.
And because Jesus paid the price for our salvation, the next part has no effect as to dimish the work of Jesus on the cross. (If he take him another wife (another god); her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
And the last verse: And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
1.sell
2.rejected
3. Accepted
If these 3 are not accomplished in Jesus' work, then Jesus shall be free from it.
But, those three things did come to be fulfilled of which now, you and I are the benefactees.
Now for your next set of verses: 2Ki 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2Ki 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
2Ki 2:25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.
God speaking: OS 13:8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
Here God is giving a picture of his action in metaphor of what he will do spiritually in Jesus.
So, little children mocking Jesus are the Jewish High priests (Mat 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!) and Mat 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
You see the picture there?
The term "little children" is used by Jesus to describe the make up of the kingdom of heaven.
In this case, to the Jewish nation, the kingdom was accessable through the Father, but when Jesus came, He cut them off by saying " That they could only get to the Father but by Him" paraphrased.
That is God the Father (I) consuming like a bear a bear the little children who mocked Him in the span of 42 months. The three and 1/2 years Jesus' ministry lasted.
Two she bears are two 3-1/2 year periods, consisting of seven day week in which Jesus brought under His redeeming love, the whole of creation back unto the Father.
Now, if you can not see that after I have explained it to you, then you have no understanding of God's spiritual work in our behalf.
Let me give you one more verse that gives credence to what I just explained: Hos 12:10 (I) have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
In those is wisdom gained by understanding of the knowledge given.
Knowledge is available readily, bible and many other sources, nature, and if understanding is granted, wisdom is a house built for all eternity.
Blessings, AJ
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Holy crap!
You see? What did I tell you?
Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
Being wise, one would look into the things of God from where knowledge and understanding come from.
Blessings, AJ
What a load of nonsense! Being a former believer myself. God gives nothing... no knowledgle or understanding ... grief and people that believe are just puppets that are to accept that this is an act of god. People who believe are not wise, they are just sheltered in their belief and refuse to see the world as it is. Only thing I got from god was false hope!
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
My life is testimony to His loving kindness and who has not failed me yet.
I am confident, at peace and content with what all He has given me. (Formerly lost)
Blessings, AJ
I am not the most eloquent that you will find, I just say it how I see it. No point quoting words you do not understand to me. Sorry but what you said just means nothing. You just sound like a sheep to me saying what's right.
If you are content at what he has given you then fair play to you but I am not and expect more from life than living miserable, living poor, wondering where I am getting the next scrap from. To let you understand I am an animal lover and have spent the last 8 years salary trying to keep my beloved animal alive. Where was he who loves everything he creates.... NOWHERE. Please do not quote scripture to me, I know scipture, I lived and breathed it. Nothing you can say can change it.
God is not an awsome god he is an awful one who preys on the weak sheep to follow. Open your eyes and you will see there is much going on in this world and so called god doesnt care!!
Crown College ofthe Bible
Member
Once you have trusted Jesus Christ as your Savior, you are saved forever. In the Christian faith, one is saved forever from hell.
Romans 10:9 says, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Revelation 3:5 says,
and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life.
Why hell?
Hell was not made for us. Hell was made for the devil and his angel's as Matthew 25:41 says,
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
God made us. He gave man the choice to choose right from wrong. We chose to sin against God. There is a penalty for sin. Romans 6:23 says,
For the wages of sin is death...
The payment of our sin is death and hell; separation from God forever. If we in our lives reject Christ as Savior, we will spend eternity in hell. Matthew 7:23 says,
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me
Hell is everlasting. It never ends. People who reject Christ as Savior will go there and will spend eternity there. Revelation 10:15 says,
And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
But the good news is that Christ paid for our sin on the cross. He died was buried and rose again alive forevermore. Romans 6:23 says,
....but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
If you will only believe on Jesus Christ as your Savior, He promises to take you to heaven.
outhouse
Atheistically
Ya so how did hell change from the OT to the NT ??????
when was the word hell first used????
Crown College ofthe Bible
Member
What do you mean by change?
outhouse
Atheistically
If you knwo th ebible you should know how the words change and there meaning.
how did the OT speak of a place like hell? was hell only created in the NT?
OT starts with sheol and then to hades, how are these terms used ? describe the place and what they ment?
then the same for the NT you will see what I mean
David69
Angel Of The North
am suprised you are a christian then!!!
A lot of people who don't know God are feeling like you do because they only see God from their own understanding. If as you say you know scripture then you must know we are not to rely on our own intellect but to trust and believe God with all our being. You would know that God is working to plan and has man's salvation at heart. This may not happen as fast as we would like but there is a lot to learn that takes a lifetime. Human impatience is clouding your mind which is the way the god of this world works 2 Cor.4v4 and many are his willing victims. He is laughing up his sleeve while you are degrading the Creator and true God.
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"He who loves everything he creates" is in you!
Did you not say " I am an animal lover and have spent the last 8 years salary trying to keep my beloved animal alive"?
There, the love is in you to share in degree by how much you have sacrificed for your animal.
Likewise;
God sacrificed His only Begotten son in saving His beloved humanity.
You know that! You should be able to relate to that and gain some meaning out of it.
Listen, there are allot of folks who have come from christian upbringings, read the bible only to become discouraged by the whole religious thing.
The reason being, it is my belief, that not everybody experiences the same quality of life and therefore, are more apt to question God and or deny His goodness.
We were given charge as gods to manage our environment the best way we know how.
As one example of many is the case of abused animals; we created the animal police.
Love has to flow from us, to begin with, for love lies dormant in us needing a stimulus to bring it out, hence the vanity of this world.
I agree with you that nothing I say will change it, but I know scripture as well, and I know first hand the promises in the scripture that have been my sustenance.
Yes, I see sufferings in the world, injustices to both humans and animals, but I don't blame the creator, for He gave us the will to do things about it.
If we seek Him in earnest, He has promised that He will be with us through it all.
Blessings, AJ
Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
I love this line of thought. Hell wasn't made for us! God is a really neat guy and made it for his angels.. We just accidently end up their and God doesn't know how! We just kinda warp over their and poor God can't figure out what is going on so he just lets it continue.
OF COURSE HE MADE IT FOR US!! If he didn't we wouldn't ever go their.:slap: :slap:
I think our wrong conclusions come from the fact we don't differentiate between
hell= grave or temporary death and
hellfire=second or eternal death.
From scripture we see it is appointed unto man once to die Heb.9v26 so obviously God intended we would end up in the grave or hell as did Jesus himself Acts 2v31 and was resurrected.
The real problem is 'hell-fire' from which there is no resurrection. God did intend "unrepentant sinners" to end up there but obviously they would not burn for ever seeing man is a mortal creature.Mal.4v3 and would burn up.
You all are missing the point!
If I built a wooden bridge, how would I know it would support any amount of weight?
By Testing it maybe?
Nah, that would be out of character, since I built it perfect and beautiful and I don't go about testing out of: well.......just for the testing!
But wait a minute........
I will test it to bring glory to myself as a builder.
God created all there is to His glory, honor and praise.
Yet all that is created, excluding mankind, only brings glory in its present form, it's beauty. Such as blue mountains, beautiful sunsets, diversity of animals, the micro world, the cosmos.
But mankind, that is His crowning glory! Why?
Because mankind (Bridge)was given intelligence to become like God.
God then placed mankind (bridge) in an environment that would meet the test.
Some bridges (People) can not handle the stress of the weight of life and break down.
Many others can handle some weight, and then there are those who can handle allot of weight.
The object of the test is for the bridge to acknowledge it's own existence by reason of a creator, and intelligently, by reason of knowledge gained, seek the creator out for help in the strength to endure the test of life.
The strength of character of the bridge is known by its test. The more endurance the harder the test.
Thus the Apostle Paul said:Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
God is always aware of your condition and deals with you individually based on your understanding of Him.
The closer you come to Him, the closer He gets to you.
Blessings, AJ
If I built a wooden bridge, how would I know it would support any amount of weight?
By Testing it maybe?
Nah, that would be out of character, since I built it perfect and beautiful and I don't go about testing out of: well.......just for the testing!
But wait a minute........
I will test it to bring glory to myself as a builder.
God created all there is to His glory, honor and praise.
Yet all that is created, excluding mankind, only brings glory in its present form, it's beauty. Such as blue mountains, beautiful sunsets, diversity of animals, the micro world, the cosmos.
But mankind, that is His crowning glory! Why?
Because mankind (Bridge)was given intelligence to become like God.
God then placed mankind (bridge) in an environment that would meet the test.
Some bridges (People) can not handle the stress of the weight of life and break down.
Many others can handle some weight, and then there are those who can handle allot of weight.
The object of the test is for the bridge to acknowledge it's own existence by reason of a creator, and intelligently, by reason of knowledge gained, seek the creator out for help in the strength to endure the test of life.
The strength of character of the bridge is known by its test. The more endurance the harder the test.
Thus the Apostle Paul said:Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
God is always aware of your condition and deals with you individually based on your understanding of Him.
The closer you come to Him, the closer He gets to you.
Blessings, AJ