Let's talk about Hell

[PolyHedral]

I don't know why people are so obsessed with the OT and how things were done then.

Because the behavior reflects on your God.

I agree with micrurus. I can do better than what "God" has allegedly done, and I've not had millennia to think about it!

 

[micrurus]

Thanks but you could do a better job of it james
I don't know why people are so obsessed with the OT and how things were done then.
We have been in the NT for 2000 years and they seem less concerned with that which is much nicer.
Btw , what is the female version of amigo ?

why do we not look at the NT? I can give you pleanty of problems inthere if you wish.

the real question is, why are you ignoring the obvious injustices from the OT?

 

[Beta]

Because the behavior reflects on your God.

I agree with micrurus. I can do better than what "God" has allegedly done, and I've not had millennia to think about it!

So how come YOU are not the Creator ??? You would be if you could do better ! what nonsense ! :areyoucra
Two lessons of living are being shown in the OT and NT neither of which can be understood by unbelievers because they are spiritually discerned. Is all that can be said ! :yes:

 

[micrurus]

So how come YOU are not the Creator ??? You would be if you could do better ! what nonsense ! :areyoucra
Two lessons of living are being shown in the OT and NT neither of which can be understood by unbelievers because they are spiritually discerned. Is all that can be said ! :yes:

i hope that you do know that you mad 2 textbook logical fallacies
-if you could do better you would be the creator? what nonsence, there is just no logic in this. I know people that can sing better than most hiphopartists. that doesn't mean that they have a platina record.
-non believers could never understand? im sure that you are going to ad that if you were a believer and you still dont understand you arent a true believer.
please do some reasurch, look up the No true Scotsman logical fallacy

 

[james2ko]

Thanks but you could do a better job of it james
I don't know why people are so obsessed with the OT and how things were done then.
We have been in the NT for 2000 years and they seem less concerned with that which is much nicer.
Btw , what is the female version of amigo ?

Whoops! My apologies amiga or better yet...Hermana (sister)

Appreciate the kind words. I wish I had the time to post in every thread on this forum. There just isn't enough hours in a day. My time is limited so I pick and choose my posts carefully. I do a lot more reading than posting and I intend to keep it that way.

 

[Beta]

SERIOUSLY? you sont see any proplems with all of this? Is this really the best that some god with infinate wisdome can do?

There are obviously problems of a serious nature - but the difficulties lie with the people not obeying God's directions. It's just as simple as that - not that they will believe it :no: . They think they must first understand everything then...maybe...if God passes their judgement...then maybe they might believe...as long as HE fits into THEIR way of thinking. People want to put themselves before God and he won't allow that. Their evil doings are already reflected in the world and it is coming to an end. :yes:

 

[Beta]

Whoops! My apologies amiga or better yet...Hermana (sister)

Appreciate the kind words. I wish I had the time to post in every thread on this forum. There just isn't enough hours in a day. My time is limited so I pick and choose my posts carefully. I do a lot more reading than posting and I intend to keep it that way.

Hi , I have too much time being retired and living on my own. Family all grown up.
Hermana - is that mexican ? sister will do nicely .
In any case I'm not sure there is much purpose in debating/discussing as God needs to be involved in comprehending and his Spirit is so obviously not in the world - yet.

 

[micrurus]

T It's just as simple as that - not that they will believe it :no:

seriously, "no true scotsman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HJrAaGJudw

whats wrong with wanting to understand the world?
things cristians did not want to understant: the earth is round
the sun is in the center of our universe
the grand canyon took longer than a day to be formed.

are you saying that knowledge is wrong?

next, I do not need to reject him based on my way of thinking.
God doesn't fit into his own way of thinking.

I do not want to get myself before god, I do not pretend that this whole planet was created just for me, how egocentric is that?

and that last sentance, please don't start me on that. you know howmeany people try to predict the book of revelation onley to be proven wrong?

 

[Beta]

seriously, "no true scotsman"
[youtube]_HJrAaGJudw[/youtube]
YouTube - No True Scotsman

whats wrong with wanting to understand the world?
things cristians did not want to understant: the earth is round
the sun is in the center of our universe
the grand canyon took longer than a day to be formed.

are you saying that knowledge is wrong?

next, I do not need to reject him based on my way of thinking.
God doesn't fit into his own way of thinking.

I do not want to get myself before god, I do not pretend that this whole planet was created just for me, how egocentric is that?

and that last sentance, please don't start me on that. you know howmeany people try to predict the book of revelation onley to be proven wrong?

No of course knowledge is not wrong but I am talking about spiritual knowledge that gives man a vision for the future.
Revelation is not my prediction it's from Jesus Christ. Obviously one day it will come true when people least expect it.

 

[micrurus]

No of course knowledge is not wrong but I am talking about spiritual knowledge that gives man a vision for the future.

so what are you saying? in order that you understand the bible you have to believe in it?

somehow i have a the idea that you still haven reasurched the no true scotsman fallacy, if you have. please tell me why this is not a logical falacy.

Revelation is not my prediction it's from Jesus Christ. Obviously one day it will come true when people least expect it.

yes i know "you wil hear about war or rumors about war" WAR? he makes his predictions pretty precise, what are the odds of a war happoning?

 

[Father Heathen]

Human societies tend to attribute their own egos, emotions and culture to their gods, making their portrayals of god mere reflections of themselves. Thus the bible tells us more about the savage primitives who authored it more than it does about any actual god. God would obviously be the most intelligent and logical mind in existence, so if something is totally nonsensical and illogical (such as 99% of religion) then it's safe to assume that's not of god.

 

[micrurus]

I agree with you, but i do not think that people who believe that the bible is the word of god will.

 

[Beta]

Well , I have listened to your true Scotsman fallacy and I am non the wiser. It told me nothing I did not know already. What puzzles me is why you are on a religious forum wanting to talk about..well..religion.
I am on it because I like to talk about God and because I believe in him. If I didn't I would not be on it. So what are you hoping to gain from it ? or is it to put believers off God ? You must have a reason ?

Btw , you realise we are getting away from the OP ?

 

[micrurus]

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...tes/108982-why-do-you-come-here-atheists.html
there is a whole topic on your question.
first of all, a religion does NOT need a god.
second, you do NOT need to be religious to be interested in religion.
this section is called religious debates is it not do discuss religeon?
I would never want a believer to abandon god because I said so. but i wouldn't mind it when they abandon their religion by reason. I also wouldn't mind it when some one finds a religion by reasoning.
also, I am open to any religion IF I can be convinced to why it is a true religion (im a sucker for logics).

now what puzzles me is that you are frustrated with some one who questions your belief. If you never speak to different minded people, you will never learn anything signiffigant.

what is the benefit of talking to people who do nothing else than agree with you? there is no progress in that.

would these answers suffice because I can give you some philosophical, scientific and religios reasons too.

 

[james2ko]

Btw , you realise we are getting away from the OP ?

Yeah..What the "hell" is nobody talking about?

 

[micrurus]

fair enough

 

[Evandr]

maybe it is BECAUSE people are not that far advanced that those bad things happon.

Do you agree with the judgement of your lord?
if so, do you think that prople suffering from poverty an/or desease have what they deserved?
if people cannot save them selves from evil, the why does god condemm them for it?
if god already punishes people whil they are alive, than of what use is hell?
what is evil? because i have never witnessed an objective form of evil.

and finaly, do you think that people deserve eternal torment?

You just don't get it. Let me simplify in stick terms.
Man is created and of necessity he must be self determining or be nothing more than a decoration in eternity and nothing grows or has any real purpose.
Man has desires, desires to be happy.
To be eternally happy man must obtain eternal increase or become stagnant.
"Eternal" increase is only found in the growth of the family unit on an eternal level which entails the wielding of the power of a god. Otherwise we are less than dull glowing embers that pop out of the fire only to cool, die, and be forgotten by those who noticed our existence in the first place.
Such power can also be used to destroy if used unwisely.
Man is trained for millennia and tested in mortality to see who is worthy of eternal increase and who is not.
The Father knows all this and gives directions for success. These directions are so important that they are called commandments. Man must be able to choose for himself or the whole trial will fail to yield the necessary results.
Man is like a stupid puppy ignoring commands and following own path all willy-nilly and thinks himself to be noble and wise in so doing. He also thinks himself to be enlightened. Man thinks himself so enlightened that he ignores directions and struts about like a star struck rooster.
God sends His Son to open a path by which the star struck roosters can escape eternal ignorance and fellowship with others who had to be cast out for rebellion.
Man ignores chance to escape and gets on public forums and makes haughty and presumptuous statements like the ones you just made.
Some keep the directives and exit the hell hole - some do not, thinking themselves too wise to be bothered.
Success yields joy and happiness so exquisite and great we cannot comprehend the potential thereof - failure will find one at the other end of the spectrum wishing to no avail that they had done things differently and regretting their passage on this train to failure that they were so intent on riding to its unavoidable end.

 

[micrurus]

You just don't get it. Let me simplify in stick terms.
Man is created and of necessity he must be self determining or be nothing more than a decoration in eternity and nothing grows or has any real purpose.
Man has desires, desires to be happy.
To be eternally happy man must obtain eternal increase or become stagnant.
"Eternal" increase is only found in the growth of the family unit on an eternal level which entails the wielding of the power of a god. Otherwise we are less than dull glowing embers that pop out of the fire only to cool, die, and be forgotten by those who noticed our existence in the first place.
Such power can also be used to destroy if used unwisely.
Man is trained for millennia and tested in mortality to see who is worthy of eternal increase and who is not.
The Father knows all this and gives directions for success. These directions are so important that they are called commandments. Man must be able to choose for himself or the whole trial will fail to yield the necessary results.
Man is like a stupid puppy ignoring commands and following own path all willy-nilly and thinks himself to be noble and wise in so doing. He also thinks himself to be enlightened. Man thinks himself so enlightened that he ignores directions and struts about like a star struck rooster.
God sends His Son to open a path by which the star struck roosters can escape eternal ignorance and fellowship with others who had to be cast out for rebellion.
Man ignores chance to escape and gets on public forums and makes haughty and presumptuous statements like the ones you just made.
Some keep the directives and exit the hell hole - some do not, thinking themselves too wise to be bothered.
Success yields joy and happiness so exquisite and great we cannot comprehend the potential thereof - failure will find one at the other end of the spectrum wishing to no avail that they had done things differently and regretting their passage on this train to failure that they were so intent on riding to its unavoidable end.

you truely have a nice way of phrasing things

 

[Evandr]

you truely have a nice way of phrasing things

Why thank you I do try :yes:

 

[micrurus]

Why thank you I do try :yes:

I actually am more interested about what you said to me in a different topic, i was in a way, disterbed by it and i have phrased why (altho not as peotic at you). and i would actually be verry much interested in your take on it.