Let's talk about Hell

[Evandr]

I actually am more interested about what you said to me in a different topic, i was in a way, disterbed by it and i have phrased why (altho not as peotic at you). and i would actually be verry much interested in your take on it.

what thread would that be?

 

[micrurus]

what thread would that be?

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/109150-god-perfect.html

 

[Evandr]

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/109150-god-perfect.html

Responce 89, give me some time and I will clarify

 

[outhouse]

what thread would that be?

hows about this one ?

any chance you know something about hell ?

 

[Beta]

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...tes/108982-why-do-you-come-here-atheists.html
there is a whole topic on your question.
first of all, a religion does NOT need a god.
second, you do NOT need to be religious to be interested in religion.
this section is called religious debates is it not do discuss religeon?
I would never want a believer to abandon god because I said so. but i wouldn't mind it when they abandon their religion by reason. I also wouldn't mind it when some one finds a religion by reasoning.
also, I am open to any religion IF I can be convinced to why it is a true religion (im a sucker for logics).

now what puzzles me is that you are frustrated with some one who questions your belief. If you never speak to different minded people, you will never learn anything signiffigant.

what is the benefit of talking to people who do nothing else than agree with you? there is no progress in that.

would these answers suffice because I can give you some philosophical, scientific and religios reasons too.

Friend , I am not in the least frustrated. It was a genuine question motivated by curiosity.
Of course you have every right to be on forum based on your understanding of religion. Now that we know each others stance perhaps there is not much more left to say since neither will change our view.
Have a nice day and a Happy New Year to you !

 

[Father Heathen]

Even though I'm non-religious, I still find the subject of religion, and it's influence upon sociology and psychology, immensely fascinating. It impacts our culture and politics, so it's still a relevant issue regardless of whether one is an atheist or not.

 

[FR33MASON]

I believe I'm in the right spot. I want to talk to Christians about Hell. That is all I wish to talk to you about, though I will not reject to your witnessing at all, besides, that is what I'm doing. Witnessing for the right to evolve. So fire away. But please, I would appreciate it if you could keep this debate to Hell only. Thank you.

It's a question really, one I must ask by making a statement first. Well, a story really. But just to get the idea, Why Hell?

Let's go to Hell for a minute.

I'm Ed and I'm dead; a human on earth who failed to get salvation from Jesus Christ. In the Christian faith one either goes to Heaven or goes to Hell sometime after death. In this case, Ed is going to Hell.

It's Ed's time and God does not see Ed in his book, so Peter throws him into the lake of fire, something like that. I think that is actually pretty much it. Oh except one thing, Ed's there for eternity.

Sot it's hot, actually, Ed is on fire. He has landed on hot rocks and they are scraping his knees and his palms and burning at the same time. In fact his is totally on fire. He is in Hell for sure and he is on literal fire. And it hurts; it is searing pain of boils and burned skin. But he sees that he is not dieing. He is as alive as he was when he was thrown in 40 minutes ago. And he wonders when they will get him, but knows they are never going to come, but he can’t believe it and screams for help.

It's been 124 years. Ed still burns, his pain has never let up for 124 years. His pleas for help still fill the hot flames and brush the flames back into his eyes that burn constantly. He is engulfed in fire. It has now been 84,213 years. Ed screams have grown weird and finally at 700 million years to the day Ed stops screaming for one split second and realizes he is just beginning.

It has now been 41 zillion years times a 1000 zillion years that Ed has burned in Hell. He has another moment and he realizes he may as well have been there for 10 minutes, because this time will repeat again at another 41 zillion times a 1000 zillion years and that will still be just the beginning. And then the beginning starts again....

Get it?
I gotta ask. How’d this idea ever get this far?

Because your mind allowed it to get that far.
To me hell is subjective as is all things faith. Imagine a never ending life of absolute misery and it doesn't neccesarily involve fire amd brimstone.
However the christian rendition of hell is rather a disturbing and unnerving one hence the description's effectiveness for keeping it's congregation(s) in line.

 

[Beta]

Even though I'm non-religious, I still find the subject of religion, and it's influence upon sociology and psychology, immensely fascinating. It impacts our culture and politics, so it's still a relevant issue regardless of whether one is an atheist or not.

Actually I never knew that. I thought anyone not interested in God/religion (meaning the same to me) was only here to slag him off and ridicule believers. At least that is how it always seems to come across hence the arguments, disagreements and misunderstandings .
:slap:

 

[Beta]

Because your mind allowed it to get that far.
To me hell is subjective as is all things faith. Imagine a never ending life of absolute misery and it doesn't neccesarily involve fire amd brimstone.
However the christian rendition of hell is rather a disturbing and unnerving one hence the description's effectiveness for keeping it's congregation(s) in line.

' Hell ' does not have the same meaning to every Christian. Because it is assumed that it does that in itself causes a lot of misunderstanding between posters. I am a Bible-Christian and am far removed from traditional Christianity who mostly have no scriptural basis for their beliefs .They certainly have taken the name of Christ but don't do what he says...they are nominal Christians only Luk.6v46.

 

[PolyHedral]

So how come YOU are not the Creator ??? You would be if you could do better ! what nonsense ! :areyoucra
Two lessons of living are being shown in the OT and NT neither of which can be understood by unbelievers because they are spiritually discerned. Is all that can be said ! :yes:

I mean that, given the allegedly infinite resources God possess, I could do better, almost certainly by orders of magnitude.

 

[David69]

Waitasec,

Well, I got to give it to the guy for being very intelligent concerning the things known about the heavens and the sciences.

What the man has not had is, in my view a personal encounter with the creator.

If and when that should happen, as it has with me, his intelligences will not change, but his heart will.

In this world, you have degrees of intelligences across a wide spectrum of races of peoples, not necessarily in the sciences, but also in the philosophical spiritual nature.

The fight between the two is ageless and can be simply defined in two words: Spirit and physical.

We are made up of both, and one is always against the other.

The one that prevails over the other determines the nature of the individual.

There is however, a nature foreign to ours (Not of this world)and that being the spiritual nature of the creator.

When we connect our spiritual nature to the Creators spiritual nature, we are transformed from a dead state to a live state.

That live state is "The beginning of life", not of the physical, but of the spiritual nature of the Creator God.

The connection key is "faith" in God.

If not interested........well, keep on trucking in this life, because under that view, this is all there is.

Blessings, AJ

What the man has not had is, in my view a personal encounter with the creator.

If and when that should happen, as it has with me, his intelligences will not change, but his heart will.

Intelligences CAN change!!!
when I first realised, I didnt know that it was thee almighty but something negative and evil. Came to me in ways that got you to see things differently and you were left with the truth! (thats how I realised it was not evil but how sometimes the truth and intent is usually misunderstood!!!)
What happens imho, is that we hardly ever attain anywhere near our "full potential" the "most intelligent you"!
He let me understand, without words, that with every new realisation of the self and your journey (or part to play etc) brought to you by the communication of the father, brings you a step closer to your full potential!
if our conscious mind is running at 10% of its FULL potential NOW and the father opens up doors for you so that you can see for yourself, giving a chance to gain more potential and understand what it all means and why; your knowledge and intelligence rises a persentage! also we gain more access to the "communication" which allows us to communicate on higher levels! 333:9 Our pontential is to be a god-head but only if you recognise the father within and accept embrace him as part of you but will only attain this level if it is the father/creators WILL to begin with!!!

I only know this by personal experience btw but it is how I seen it!

peace

David69

 

[outhouse]

The fight between the two is ageless and can be simply defined in two words: Spirit and physical.

We are made up of both, and one is always against the other.

and we live in the physical world.

the spirit world is mythical

 

[look3467]

Intelligences CAN change!!!>>>David69

I believe intelligence is having the ability to understand things to a greater degree.

Where as, understanding is limited to one's intellectual ability.

We all have intellectual ability, but in varying degrees.

Understanding on the other hand is a God given gift.

Many can read the bible and interpret it according to their intellectual ability, but to understand the spiritual context can not be understood unless it be first granted by God.

Though I have admiration for those who demonstrate eloquently and articulate phrased statements, I have to look at their understandings of them in order to determine, by my standards whether they are seeing what I see.

I believe that we are already a god head within ourselves in that we have the potential to judge between good and evil.

The object of our journey through time and trial by sufferings, I believe is for our gain, rather than for our destruction.

It is through our trials and tribulations that we can gain the most good, providing we adhere to Godly principles.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

and we live in the physical world.

the spirit world is mythical

It may be mythical, but a reality to many who entrust their lives to the preservation of it, as did the martyrs.

Blessings, AJ

 

[outhouse]

Understanding on the other hand is a God given gift.

false to a border line lie

The object of our journey through time and trial by sufferings

thankfully your not in power or in political power

life has never been easy and without suffering and emotional and physical pain. it doesnt mean its a trial. it means its nature.

I prefer the glass half full

providing we adhere to Godly principles.

false,,,, you dont need god to live a good and moral life

 

[outhouse]

It may be mythical, but a reality to many who entrust their lives to the preservation of it, as did the martyrs.

Blessings, AJ

then we agree hell is mythical

 

[Father Heathen]

Actually I never knew that. I thought anyone not interested in God/religion (meaning the same to me) was only here to slag him off and ridicule believers. At least that is how it always seems to come across hence the arguments, disagreements and misunderstandings .
:slap:

What I usually take issue with is not the idea of god itself, but with how mankind has portrayed the idea of god and with what mankind has attributed to it, most of it irrational and unsubstantiated. It's the self-appointed middlemen and interpreters that put their own face upon god and try to hold a monopoly over the concept (organized religions). My main problem with religion is how it's abused as a tool of power and control, how people try to impose it upon others, undermining their rights and liberty, and how people use it as an excuse or justification to oppress or victimize others.

 

[look3467]

false to a border line lie>>>outhouse

OK, let's see if you have understanding of what the four beasts with six wings in the book of Revelation signify?

thankfully your not in power or in political power

I agree with you on that!

life has never been easy and without suffering and emotional and physical pain. it doesnt mean its a trial. it means its nature.

Well, can any good come out because of it? If yes, then it is a trial.

I prefer the glass half full

That's ok by me.

false,,,, you dont need god to live a good and moral life

Where suppose good comes from? Self? " I don't think so Tim" quote from Tool time.

Self thinks of self first and foremost and would lead to self destruct were it not for the "good" that is our conscience without any written laws.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

then we agree hell is mythical

As far as your understanding on it is, yes. But my understanding is that it was a place where departed souls went for lack of a better place.

The better place came to them in a visit, liberating them to a better place, thus eliminating the holding place all together.

But no, hell was a reality place.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

What I usually take issue with is not the idea of god itself, but with how mankind has portrayed the idea of god and with what mankind has attributed to it, most of it irrational and unsubstantiated. It's the self-appointed middlemen and interpreters that put their own face upon god and try to hold a monopoly over the concept (organized religions). My main problem with religion is how it's abused as a tool of power and control, how people try to impose it upon others, undermining their rights and liberty, and how people use it as an excuse or justification to oppress or victimize others.

The test of a genuine religion is whose God leads by example, like love thy neighbor as thyself?

Blessings, AJ