Danny Heim
Active Member
I like you 1st Hell best, Lawrence. That is, if we gotta have one. How about, life is hell/life is heaven, take your pick...
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Let's talk about Hell
- Thread starter Danny Heim
- Start date
How many types of hell are in Scripture?
According to the Bible there is only one hell, and the Bible hell is the common grave of mankind where the sleeping dead are until resurrection day or the millennial-long day of Jesus reign over earth. Acts 24v15; Daniel 12vs2,13.
The lake of fire is depicted [Rev20vs13,14] or defined as: 'second death'.
According to Jesus: 'death' is likened to being in a deep sleep-like state until one is resurrected back to life. Heavenly life or earthly life. John 11vs11-14.
Hell [gravedom] can not be eternal damnation because Jesus was in hell until God resurrected him [Acts 2vs27,31]. If you read Rev 20vs13,14 you will also see all in hell are delivered up. After all are delivered up then emptied-out hell, void of people, dies. Vacant hell dies a symbolic second death of no returning ever. That is why Rev 21v4 can say there will be no more death.
The only exception are those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6 who have committed the unforgivable sin. They are not considered in hell but in Gehenna. Gehenna was a garbage dump where things were destroyed.
Because Gehenna was translated sometimes as hell fire made people think of a literal fire instead of being destroyed or annihilated. Gehenna's fire like the lake of fire stands for second death or no more chance for life anywhere.
The wicked are destroyed or annihilated forever- Psalm 92v7.
In the above verses the word 'tormented' is highlighted.
The word 'torture' is Not in those verses because as at Matthew [18vs30,34] a 'tormentor' was a jailer. [Acts 16 vs23,27,36].
The 'torment' those of Revelation is not that they are literally 'tortured.'
The smoke of their torment [not torture] ascends up forever.
Smoke is what is left over like the forever smoke of Isaiah 34v10.
Edom no longer exists so the 'forever smoke' represents what will exist no more like the forever-ascending smoke of Revelation.
The devil of Rev. 20v10 ends up at Rev 21v8 in: second death.
[death of no returning to life anywhere; eternally jailed from life]
Isn't that why Hebrews 2v14 B can mention Jesus destroys Satan?
Jesus proves to be the 'seed' of Genesis 3v15 that deals Satan [serpent] the fatal death bruise to his head.
'If' "we may do that my friend' 'if' it would not be for Jesus time of glory [Matt 16v27; 25v31] or divine intervention into mankind's affairs.
LOOK who comes to the rescue at Revelation 11v18 B.
Mankind has shown all in heaven and earth that man can not successfully direct his step. So God will step in and have Jesus as his crowned king of God's kingdom, or royal government, rid the earth of all enemies of righteousness.
Isaiah 11v4; Rev. 19vs11,14,15. The upright remain- Proverbs 2vs21,22
Wicked are destroyed- Psalm 92v7.
Psalm 92v7 does not say bad but 'wicked' are destroyed.
The prophet Daniel died and Daniel was Not a follower of Jesus.
Please look and see Daniel [12 vs2,13] because Daniel looked forward to getting back up, but Not to a heavenly resurrection but back up to an earthly resurrection. Being resurrected or brought back to life just as Jesus friend was at John 11vs11-14.
Please also see Romans 6v7.
[Only those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6 vs4-6 do not get back up but experience 'second death' or no future life anywhere heaven or earth.]
The rest experience what Romans 6v7 says that the dead are freed or acquitted from sin. Not meaning innocent but like a governor can pardon a person so the charges no longer stick. Since we can not resurrect oneself or another we need Jesus to do that for us and he will. -Acts 24v15.
Those of Rev. 5 vs9,10 rule in heaven with Jesus, the rest of mankind can become part of the promise to Abraham that Jesus will fulfill: that all families of the earth will be blessed and all nations of the earth will be blessed.
Genesis 12v3; 22vs17,18; Rev 22v2.
Jesus will keep his promise that the humble meek will inherit the earth.
Matthew 5v5; Psalm 37vs11,29
This will start with the humble sheep-like ones of Matthew 25v32.
I enjoyed reading your above post. Thanks for posting.
I would like to take the liberty to add that with the exception of those people of Matt 12 v32: Death is the wages sin pays. - Rom 6 v23. In other words: 'Death' stamps the price tag of sin as: "Paid In Full".
Since we can not resurrect oneself or another we need Jesus to do that for us and he will.- Acts 24v15.
Danny Heim
Active Member
Hey, I got no problem with Jesus coming and solving our prolems, he'd better hurry though, the clock is ticking.
Danny Heim
Active Member
I’ve noticed you have not referred to salvation, you know, the old "gotta get saved first". Does that mean one does not need to be a Christian to get these rewards, but just a good person? Or can a good person lose out and suffer this eternal death, becasue they are not saved?
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
"he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone"
Sorry -but that will hurt. Anything you might do to a person with fire and brimstone ain't gonna be pleasant! I understand the reluctance of some to believe that God -who IS love -would do that to any -but he certainly will for good purpose.
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah in a manner similar to using a tactical nuke -turned a decent man's wife into a pillar of salt. He took a man's life for stumbling and touching the ark (he will live again and all will be well), he made a king behave and think like an animal for seven years, slew all the firstborn of Egypt, allowed Elisha to curse mocking children so that a she-bear rent them, allowed Elijah to call fire from heaven to consume men where they stood, sent pstilence/famine/armies of men ... and much more....
and some -who would torture or consent to it -will be "tortured"...
Nebuchadnezzar threw those loyal to God into a furnace -yet saved them out of it alive in the flesh. God allowed Jews to be thrown into furnaces -and did not save them out of it in the flesh -yet they will be saved.
God will allow it -and God will even do it -but whereas man cremates the innocent, God cremates the cremators of the innocent -and still gives them opportunity to repent -whether they be gentile or Jew.
What God will do to some men does not compare to that which some men will do to others
-especially considering the fact that God can repair anything which might be destroyed -our minds, bodies, the earth we destroy..... EVERYTHING!
God is longsuffering -but will not be patient forever -he does NOT quibble when it comes to evil. Cease to do it -or eventually cease to exist altogether.
There is nothing we can destroy that He cannot repair -and there is no one that can be killed by him -or any other -that cannot be brought back to life -except by his own decree.
He is able to repair all things, but, if we ultimately refuse Him, we make ourselves destroyers of all things -logically subject to destruction to protect that which should be -and must be dealt with accordingly... as what he commands that we do sustains all things in order -and our refusal threatens to destroy all things.
He WILL torment... he WILL torture those whose hearts, thoughts and actions would bring only misery (torment) to others..... when necessary -though what He might do is not toward any irrational goal -such as when we torture -or torment. If the word "torment" makes you feel better about torture -so be it ... but that which He does might effectively turn some from their ignorant decisions.
If God tormenting Hitler with fire were able to make him NOT the Hitler we have experienced -so be it. It would be good for ourselves -and himself -who would argue?.
It is written that He will come to destroy those who destroy the earth (Rev. 11:18) -that he will literally fight nations as in the day of battle (Zech 14:3-5) -as they will actually attempt to war with him (Rev 17:12-14)...
'Righteousness' Righteousness is the word used at Rev 19v11.
Jesus judges in righteousness meaning No one innocent would be in harm's way of those of Psalm 92v7 who loose out in eternal death/ annihilation.
'He who endures to the end' [Mt24v13] 'the same will be saved'.
So the one who faithfully endures to the end of the badness on earth will be saved.
Revelation [7vs9,10,14] shows a great crowd of people saying 'Salvation' why? because as verse 14 says they come out of great tribulation.
Saved out of the great tribulation of Matthew 24v21 that Jesus foretold.
Jesus will use as a touchstone for the basis of his salvation judgment how a person reacts to the world-wide proclamation of the Good News [Gospel] of God's kingdom as mentioned at Matthew 24v14.
So the people alive at the final judgment of this system of things that we are now under, and those judged as Jesus sheep of Matthew 25v32 are the ones saved alive at that time.
Many have lived and died without hearing about Jesus. But those alive; living at the time of Jesus glory [Matt 25v31] or divine intervention will have had the opportunity to make a choice if they want to be on God's side or not because of the global preaching work now being done of Matt 24v14.
Ticking is right. Mankind has a doom-and-gloom Doom's Day Clock with it's hands ticking close to the dark midnight hour for mankind. That seems to tie in with Revelation 11v18 B that God will use divine intervention to bring ruin to those ruining our earth.
So for all we know it can come to the point that it will look very bad to the point that everyone will know that only through Jesus as crowned king of God's kingdom [royal government] can there be salvation for mankind.
Danny Heim
Active Member
Let me ask again,
I’ve noticed you have not referred to salvation, you know, the old "gotta get saved first". Does that mean one does not need to be a Christian to get these rewards, but just a good person? Or can a good person lose out and suffer this eternal death, becasue they are not saved?
I looked at this again this morning, and maybe you are answering, still not sure. But just to make it real simple,
professed Christian = go to heaven and professed Non-Christian = stay dead forever
Would this be correct, yes or no
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Cassiterides
Member
Hell does not exist, nor does the Bible teach that Hell exists. Hell is a pagan word (Old Germanic) that came about to replace Sheol of the Old Testament.
What is Sheol?
Sheol is a place of 'nothingness', translated as the 'grave'. When you die, you simply cease to exist. The Bible says that in Sheol:
''...there is no work, no device, no knowledge, nor wisdom.'' Ecc 9: 10.
''For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?'' Psalm 6: 5
Everyone goes to Sheol (the grave) i.e they die and cease to exist. This includes both the good and bad. Everyone goes to same place. For example Jacob went to sheol (Genesis 37: 3).
Romans 6: 23 says ''the wages of sin is death''. When you die, you die. You cease to exist.
Contrary to mainstream Christian teaching, the Bible does not teach of an 'afterlife'. The Bible teaches resurrection of the dead. Those that lived good lives will be resurrected, those that lived bad lives will remain forever dead, as nothing (Daniel 12: 2).
''The wicked shall perish they shall consume away. (Psalm 37:20)
What is Sheol?
Sheol is a place of 'nothingness', translated as the 'grave'. When you die, you simply cease to exist. The Bible says that in Sheol:
''...there is no work, no device, no knowledge, nor wisdom.'' Ecc 9: 10.
''For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?'' Psalm 6: 5
Everyone goes to Sheol (the grave) i.e they die and cease to exist. This includes both the good and bad. Everyone goes to same place. For example Jacob went to sheol (Genesis 37: 3).
Romans 6: 23 says ''the wages of sin is death''. When you die, you die. You cease to exist.
Contrary to mainstream Christian teaching, the Bible does not teach of an 'afterlife'. The Bible teaches resurrection of the dead. Those that lived good lives will be resurrected, those that lived bad lives will remain forever dead, as nothing (Daniel 12: 2).
''The wicked shall perish they shall consume away. (Psalm 37:20)
Cassiterides
Member
The Bible frequently compares the nature of man to that of the animals.
The Psalmist declares, speaking of both:
"Thou (God) takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust" (104:29).
The writer of Ecclesiastes is quite categorical: he desires men to see
"that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath . . . All go unto one place: all are of the dust and all turn to dust again" (3:19-21).
Men and animals have by nature the same fate: they all return to the ground. Adam the first man was made from the dust of the ground even.
The Psalmist declares, speaking of both:
"Thou (God) takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust" (104:29).
The writer of Ecclesiastes is quite categorical: he desires men to see
"that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath . . . All go unto one place: all are of the dust and all turn to dust again" (3:19-21).
Men and animals have by nature the same fate: they all return to the ground. Adam the first man was made from the dust of the ground even.
Danny Heim
Active Member
we are star dust
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
God will not solve these problems until we reach the point where it is absolutely undeniable that we would cease to exist if he did not.
God knows this is the end of our ways -but we have not actually proven it yet. It will be absolute proof that we need God. It may seem harsh, but it is necessary.
He has told us since the beginning that walking contrary to him only leads to death -and he is allowing us to prove it... so that it never need happen again. There will be no doubt. He will then return -destroy those who destroy the earth -and actually enforce peace as we learn his ways.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
DeitySlayer
President of Chindia
Correct me if I am wrong, but was that not ended with the Flood? Wiping away mankind walking contrary to God?
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Yes -he did thin out the herd, so to speak, quite dramatically -left some who considered him alive, and continued with his plans. He did so because the hearts of men were considering evil continually -this would have led to very bad things very soon -just as confusing man's speech at Babel postponed the inevitable and made time for all the other stuff that happened -as if he did not we probably would have destroyed ourselves much sooner. The clock is ticking, but it's his clock. He can slow it down and speed it up as necessary.
Danny Heim
Active Member
Getting better, I can make some sense of that. However, I'm afraid it still has a "me or nobody" aspect to it. It says that we are not of our own selves, and there again, no free will. That makes me not feel like an individual, but part of a puppet species. No matter how wonderful God can make life, if it's not my life I live, then it is void and without life. Our creation becomes conditional, but my basic instincts tell me my creation was unconditional. To follow this I have to ignore my basic instincts, a big no no of my path of right and wrong.
Danny-
You are right. Living on our God-given earth, or God gifted earth, comes with conditions:
Obey God's rules of love or you can Not live here permanently.
Kind of like if you have an awesome house and invited guests over to stay as long as they want, and help themselves to all they want, as long as they are humble and loving toward each other. Otherwise, rebellious ones could not live in your wonderful house.
You are right. Living on our God-given earth, or God gifted earth, comes with conditions:
Obey God's rules of love or you can Not live here permanently.
Kind of like if you have an awesome house and invited guests over to stay as long as they want, and help themselves to all they want, as long as they are humble and loving toward each other. Otherwise, rebellious ones could not live in your wonderful house.