"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron!

[Reverend Rick]

I believe Jesus' stance on war would be...
no war, at any time, or under any conditions,
even to save the lives of your loved ones.

(funny concept that war saves lives.:areyoucra THAT is double speak.)

Funny you only address half of my comment.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Hmmm... what is the definition of Christian, then? If we have such specific ideas regarding the politics to which a Christian must adhere, surely you have a solid definition of Christian.

A Christian would be someone who follows Christ. When we insert Liberal or Conservative into the description it would be an oxymoron.

Both Liberal and Conservative would be contrary to Christ's teachings.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I don't believe Jesus would be too pleased with Conservative war mongering any more than he would Liberal abortionists.

Are there liberal abortionists? I know there are pro-choicers, but as far as I know, no one is out there supporting abortion, only the right to choose in difficult circumstances.

I don't think Jesus would necessarily take issue with that.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

A Christian would be someone who follows Christ. When we insert Liberal or Conservative into the description it would be an oxymoron.

Both Liberal and Conservative would be contrary to Christ's teachings.

Perhaps, but considering the wide array of interpretations that can be made from Christ's teachings, a person can subscribe to either viewpoint and still be Christian.

That, and even if some of the ideas are contradictory, humans are not necessarily rational creatures. And perhaps we don't have to be. To paraphrase Whitman, we're large and contain multitudes.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't think Jesus would necessarily take issue with that.

I could easily say the same thing about a number of things. We both would be wrong.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I could easily say the same thing about a number of things. We both would be wrong.

Hence the "necessarily."

I agree with that. It's hard to put meanings behind the teachings of Jesus: it's up to the individual to find the spirit behind them and work them the best she or he can according to her or his life.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Hence the "necessarily."

I agree with that. It's hard to put meanings behind the teachings of Jesus: it's up to the individual to find the spirit behind them and work them the best she or he can according to her or his life.

Which is why many churches can overlook unruly children, divorce, and gluttons while railing against homosexuals and pray for the next war to be sucessful.

We now have a thread for Liberal Christians that believe premarital sex is just peachy.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Which is why many churches can overlook unruly children, divorce, and gluttons while railing against homosexuals and pray for the next war to be sucessful.

Yup. And I'll argue against them for the same reason.

 

[Kathryn]

I think we should be careful calling ourselves either liberal or conservative Christians. We are Christians who have varying political views.

Remember, that Sir Thomas More wrote a fabulous book that basically lays out communism as the epitome of the Christian lifestyle ("Utopia"). He was one of the most brilliant Christians of all time, and truly a hero of the faith.

He was also put to death because he insisted on living his Christian faith while in public office, and he decided to take a stand against the frivolous divorce and overthrow of the Church by his monarch.

Was he a liberal or a conservative? Liberal by the measure of the times in which he lived (he was also a champion of equal rights for women) but very conservative by our standards today.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Maybe the teachings of Jesus can be summarized by the central theme of glorifying God the Father and doing His will? If we are too self-focused in what Jesus can do for me, then we are not really following the teachings of Jesus. Therefore, being liberal or conservative are really meaningless labels in regards to discerning the will of God, and walking in it.

So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.” As he was saying these things, many believed in him. So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. - Jesus as recorded in John 8

I appeal to you therefore, brothers,by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.Do not be conformed to this world,but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. - Rom 12

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ - Jesus

 

[allanpopa]

Liberal politics seems much more Christian than xenophobic, homophobic and greedy free-market capitalism...

I like the Christian myths, I think that they've shaped our culture a great deal. I personally don't think it's possible to live in the West or Europe as a Westerner/European without being shaped, formed and moulded by Christian culture, language, ritual, belief and history. I don't think that atheism or agnosticism is an escape from Christianity, I think that it's a phenomenon from within Christianity which tends towards a deconstruction of liturgical, sacramental and institutional structures (that is, it's a form of Evangelical Protestantism).

Allan

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Maybe the teachings of Jesus can be summarized by the central theme of glorifying God the Father and doing His will? If we are too self-focused in what Jesus can do for me, then we are not really following the teachings of Jesus.

I can agree with that!

But when interpreting the teachings of Jesus, the individual is going to fit them to her or his own world-view. I cannot help but interpret your quotes in a mystical way because that is where my own philosophical exploration takes me.

The truth sets me free because truth is prospectively based.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ - Jesus

By proclaiming a dogmatic view, we force ourselves and others to lose our essential nature, which is--the first and the last--God. Christ cannot know one who is entangled in prophesy.

The narrow gate is not dogma, but the shrinking of it; the removal of unnecessary complexities.

 

[J Bryson]

I thought that this thread was about liberal theology, not political liberals who are Christian. One can have a liberal theological perspective regarding Biblical inerrancy, resurrection, and religious pluralism, and still be politically conservative. On the other hand, one can take the Bible quite literally, and vote for liberal candidates.

 

[Waymarker]

No, you don't need to merely read scriptures in order to understand them. You need to STUDY them - which means understanding the historical context thoroughly, understanding the audience that each passage of scripture is addressing, and even very thoroughly studying the meanings of the original texts - the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic.
This takes time, patience, and an open mind. Much of which is in quite short supply around here.

Which bits of this do we need to enrol for a Bible study course to understand?-
"Love God, love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"-Jesus of Nazareth...

 

[Kathryn]

Not sure what your question means. But the tools for serious bible study are readily available, either online or through any bookstore - either christian or secular.

I recommend a good parallel bible (4-8 translations side by side), Strong's Concordance, either online or in hardback form (very easy to look up the original languages), a good bible with cross references on each page, and a decent bible dictionary - I prefer The New Bible Dictionary by London InterVarsity Press but there are many out there that give good historical context.

These sources are easy to obtain and a good jumping off place for serious bible study.

 

[Kathryn]

Meanwhile you can put your beliefs into action by following these instructions: "Love God, love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"-Jesus of Nazareth

No, you don't need to do serious exegesis to do this. However, that doesn't get anyone off the hook when it comes to really trying to understand the scriptures. I think we are supposed to do BOTH.

In thought and in action, we are to obey. We live in marvelous times, with untold luxuries, including the luxury to do serious, independent study of the scriptures. Many believers before us didn't have this opportunity. What a blessing! The more I study scripture, the more I am blessed.

Furthermore, my point is THIS - just because someone claims they've read the bible doesn't mean they really grasped the truths within. Many skim over it, pick it apart, look for isolated verses and passages that seem, on the surface, to disclaim Christian doctrine, or discredit the truths of Christianity - when reality they have a very limited understanding because they haven't approached the bible with any true intellectual disciplines.

 

[Waymarker]

Not sure what your question means..

Okay let me put it another way- if a nonchristian came up to me and said "I want to learn about christianity", I'd give him/her a small slimline copy of one of the gospels to take home and read, and tell him/her to come back anytime for discussion etc.
Are you saying a gospel is not enough and that he/she must do study courses and stuff in order to understand it?

 

[Kathryn]

No, I am not saying that a gospel isn't enough to begin learning about Christianity, or to begin a walk of faith.

What I AM saying is that the gospels are not the totality of Christian doctrine. As we grow in our faith, we should have a hunger to learn more. When we read scripture and attempt to apply it to our lives, shouldn't we take responsibility for being sure that we truly understand what we are applying to our daily actions?

If so, then we should try to dig deeper, learn more - and use the tools that we are blessed to have at our fingertips.

 

[Kathryn]

Why should we WANT to limit our understanding of God's word that He has so graciously given us?

 

[Waymarker]

No, I am not saying that a gospel isn't enough to begin learning about Christianity, or to begin a walk of faith.
What I AM saying is that the gospels are not the totality of Christian doctrine. As we grow in our faith, we should have a hunger to learn more. When we read scripture and attempt to apply it to our lives, shouldn't we take responsibility for being sure that we truly understand what we are applying to our daily actions?
If so, then we should try to dig deeper, learn more - and use the tools that we are blessed to have at our fingertips.

What would you say to Paul's 'keep it simple' advice?-
"I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)