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"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron!
- Thread starter Reverend Rick
- Start date
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
See, that's where we get into trouble. I'll use drinking as an example. People pull this verse and that verse out of context to support their own individual view of whether or not Christians should drink alcohol, when the truth is that when you look at ALL the passages of the bible that discuss drinking, it becomes pretty obvious that we are allowed to drink in moderation - IF it doesn't cause us or our brother to stumble - and that we should NOT get drunk.
I don't see how anyone could be self-centered while truly following (or at least trying) Jesus commands. There's much more to being a Christian than going to Church services, singing hymns, and saying "hallelujah" (and other words). 
I agree. People do that kind of thing almost constantly. Taking out out-of-context verses or stringing together non-related verses is a good way to twist the meanings around.
I understand, but that is not what the example means.
"Military intelligence" is a contradition of terms because military action is in and of itself a strong indicator that intelligence failed. It comes with the territory of an activity that can't possibly produce anything useful, but at best exchanges destructive acts for less destructive ones.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
You got that right - and that's why I didn't answer the other questions that used one verse at a time as ammunition. We could sling isolated verses taken out of context back and forth at each other all day long - and prove nothing. In fact, all we would accomplish would be undermining the truths of our shared Christian faith. In fact, that's a terrible example in a forum of mixed faiths, because isolated verses taken out of context often seem to contradict each other, which bolsters the belief of many that the bible is full of contradictions. In reality, with good study habits, it's pretty easy to come to the realization that there are very few contradictions in the Bible - if any, for that matter.
Not at all. In fact, it is almost opposite to the truth. A Christian is not supposed to fail to accept change - among other reasons, because the very core dogma of Christianity emphasizes a New Alliance that improves and substitutes the former one.
blackout
Violet.
The gospels are the ONLY books one needs to figure out
what the Kingdom of gOd is all about as expressed by Y'shua.
Simple.
And you need.... what else?
(nope. you don't need anyone to "teach" it to you either.)
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
The gospels are wonderful, wonderful books that showcase the teachings of Jesus. I am not about to undermine their importance. And certainly, if all you want to study is the teachings of Jesus, then the gospels are going to be your main focus of study - though you really need to understand a lot about the OT to grasp the fullness of Jesus' teachings.
As a Christian, though, I believe that God has given us the complete bible, AMONG OTHER THINGS, to get to know Him better. I believe the bible is the inspired Word of God, and that as a Christian, I should study more than just the Gospels in order to understand more about my faith.
And I am grateful that so many good study tools are available to prayerfully apply to exegesis of the Holy Bible.
blackout
Violet.
Bull. Sorry.
You'd be amazed for example at the difference
in the way the RC Church explains/uses the old testament connections,
compared to ... say the Baptists.
EVERYBODY READS (into) THINGS THEIR OWN WAY.
and makes/embraces their own connections.
no I'm not yelling.
Just expressing grandly. lol
blackout
Violet.
That's a very risky assumption to make,
and really can be based on nothing.
And then if you are a "literal reader" ...
or come from a literal skool...well...
you're gunna create a very interesting reality for yourself!
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I don't mind taking risks. I base my belief on a lifetime of reading and studying the bible.
Also, I am very familiar with the doctrines of both the Roman Catholics and Baptists, so I would not "be amazed" at the differences in their applications.
However, what is even more amazing is the SIMILARITIES between their teachings - both specifically and generally speaking.
Also, I am very familiar with the doctrines of both the Roman Catholics and Baptists, so I would not "be amazed" at the differences in their applications.
However, what is even more amazing is the SIMILARITIES between their teachings - both specifically and generally speaking.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
[
My point is this - that Jesus' teachings were in basically an Old Testament setting, to a people who embraced what we now term as Old Testament texts as the basis for their faith. Jesus grew up in a family that observed Jewish law and practices. That is why I am saying that to grasp the fullness of Jesus' teachings, you need to take into consideration the context - historical, the audience, their mindset, Jesus' lifestyle, etc. In other words - Old Testament law, principles, and practices.
Some people don't take the lazy or easy way out - some people really do approach bible study with as open a mind as possible, praying beforehand for the self discipline NOT to bring our own baggage to the study hall.
My point is this - that Jesus' teachings were in basically an Old Testament setting, to a people who embraced what we now term as Old Testament texts as the basis for their faith. Jesus grew up in a family that observed Jewish law and practices. That is why I am saying that to grasp the fullness of Jesus' teachings, you need to take into consideration the context - historical, the audience, their mindset, Jesus' lifestyle, etc. In other words - Old Testament law, principles, and practices.
Some people don't take the lazy or easy way out - some people really do approach bible study with as open a mind as possible, praying beforehand for the self discipline NOT to bring our own baggage to the study hall.
blackout
Violet.
I did that for 10 years. Just so you know.
I look back now, and consider that it was for the most part,
a HUGE waste of my time, and years.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
One man's trash is another man's treasure. I certainly don't consider serious study of the bible to be a waste of time - I've been studying the bible now for about 35 years and the more I think I know, the more I realize there is to learn. I don't know how or why you were studying the bible - and I don't know why you aren't now, but I can assure you that you didn't learn all there was to know about the bible in ten years. No one could - not if they devoted 20 hours a day seven days a week to that pursuit. Which neither you nor I have done.
I personally love to study - and not just the bible. Though I've been out of school now for over twenty years, I still seriously study topics simply for the pleasure of learning. By far, though, the most fascinating topics to me are those related to Christian doctrine and the history surrounding the development of that faith. But I also enjoy digging into political issues, sociological issues, health - you name it. I guess I'm a non fiction sort of gal.
For the record, as I stated generally before, I do not limit my study material to material that I think I will agree with. I read stuff from every sort of angle, and in doing so, I learn a lot and constantly challenge my own current set of beliefs.
In all my years, though, I have not yet found a set of beliefs more sound than the basics of Christianity:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
This is a faith that is neither "liberal" or "conservative."
I personally love to study - and not just the bible. Though I've been out of school now for over twenty years, I still seriously study topics simply for the pleasure of learning. By far, though, the most fascinating topics to me are those related to Christian doctrine and the history surrounding the development of that faith. But I also enjoy digging into political issues, sociological issues, health - you name it. I guess I'm a non fiction sort of gal.
For the record, as I stated generally before, I do not limit my study material to material that I think I will agree with. I read stuff from every sort of angle, and in doing so, I learn a lot and constantly challenge my own current set of beliefs.
In all my years, though, I have not yet found a set of beliefs more sound than the basics of Christianity:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
This is a faith that is neither "liberal" or "conservative."
Karl R
Active Member
Years ago there was a thread debating whether LDS were really christians. I think my response to that thread sums up my opinion of OmarKhayyam's and Christian Pilgrim's posts:
LDS christianity can fall within the realms of christianity if they meet god's and christ's understanding of what the defining characteristics of christianity are.
Because of that little detail, I don't give a rat's *** whether the catholics, conservatives, JW, liberals, LDS, orthodox, UUs, or even Angellous_Evangellous believe that I'm a christian. That's a billion or so opinions that are absolutely empty ... because they don't count.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
It's very true that the eternal destination of one's soul is strictly between the individual and the Creator.
However, there seems to be a need for at least a BROAD definition of what a Christian is, or isn't.
But we should apply that judgement to our own selves, rather than focusing on judging others.
However, there seems to be a need for at least a BROAD definition of what a Christian is, or isn't.
But we should apply that judgement to our own selves, rather than focusing on judging others.
Waymarker
Member
Ah a Catholic..
Perhaps you could explain to us why they pray to dead humans (Mary and the 'saints') instead of directly to God and Jesus?