Logically, agnosticism is the most rational position

[OceanSoul]

No, my thinking is clear, as it always is. There is no third side in matters of belief, this is basic epistemology. You either hold a premise to be true, or you don't. If you 'dont know ' or are 'undecided' then you obviously don't believe.

I disagree. You are wanting them to make a choice you want them to make which is either/or, but it's not that simple. Ambiguity often disturbs people. There are theists who agree with you too on this. I see no reason to expect an Agnostic to be an atheist or a theist if they prefer to refrain from taking either position.

 

[crossfire]

I disagree. You are wanting them to make a choice you want them to make which is either/or, but it's not that simple. Ambiguity often disturbs people. There are theists who agree with you too on this. I see no reason to expect an Agnostic to be an atheist or a theist if they prefer to refrain from taking either position.

That would be transtheism. The rational choice, imo.

 

[OceanSoul]

That would be transtheism. The rational choice, imo.

Yeah kind of is. That's when one believes that the answer to whether god exists transcends both positions? God exists and doesn't exist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Saying you're an agnostic means you cant be a theist obviously. They are mutually exclusive.

"I believe in God even though I know that I can't be certain that he's really there." - agnostic theist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Just go with deism and don't worry about all the other BS that comes with atheism or theism.

Deism is a specific type of theism.

 

[Sand Dancer]

For myself personally I have ample proof of the existence of God. Every atom in existence proves there is a God. But behind this statement is my own 41 years of researching and study. It's not just an opinion based on blind faith. There are logical proofs and spiritual proofs.

Which god though?

 

[Sand Dancer]

...For myself personally, I have ample proof of the existence of Baal. Every atom in existence proves he exists. But behind this statement is my own 33 years of researching and study. It's not just an opinion on blind faith. There are logical proofs and spiritual proofs...

Personal experience and conviction are great for your faith, man. But they say nothing on the reality of the actual existence of a deity.

At least Baal is a fertility god. Yahweh is a war god. What kind of creator is that???

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I disagree. You are wanting them to make a choice you want them to make which is either/or, but it's not that simple. Ambiguity often disturbs people. There are theists who agree with you too on this. I see no reason to expect an Agnostic to be an atheist or a theist if they prefer to refrain from taking either position.

Between atheism and theism, only one is a position: theism. "Atheist" is the term for a person who hasn't taken a theist position. That's all the word means. A person who hasn't taken a position is an atheist.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Saying you're an agnostic means you cant be a theist obviously. They are mutually exclusive.

Agnostic is more a qualifier or adjective. Theist or atheist is a noun.

 

[Neo Deist]

Deism is a specific type of theism.

No it is not. I will explain the difference to clarify your erroneous statement...

Theism: the belief in God, and that God intervenes with life, performs miracles, answers prayers, provides divine revelation or influence.

Deism: the belief in God, and that God does not intervene with life because of free will, does not perform miracles, does not answer prayers, does not provide divine revelation or influence.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Which god though?

The one God. There is only One.

 

[Neo Deist]

My understanding is that while Deists may believe that some supreme creator entity exists, this creature does not seem to involve itself with human/material concerns. There are no scriptures, vows, ceremonies, churches, preachers, etc.... But, still they believe without evidence, so you're right in that regard....its still not a rational system of thought.

To clarify the bold part, the evidence is personal observations of nature and the cosmos. We do not see randomness and happenchance, we see design and purpose. The biggest difference between atheism and deism scientifically is that the atheist looks to science to explain the Big Bang (only speculation at this point), while deists answer the question with "God caused it (our speculation)." Deism supports science and rejects divinely inspired holy books. It is a very rational system of thought that boils down to whether you believe in the existence of God without all the baggage that comes from organized religions.

 

[OceanSoul]

Between atheism and theism, only one is a position: theism. "Atheist" is the term for a person who hasn't taken a theist position. That's all the word means. A person who hasn't taken a position is an atheist.

An Atheist lacks a belief in God(s) generally because there is no evidence of its existence. An Agnostic might see reasons for its existence as well as against it, but accept neither as adequate responses to the god question for themselves so they don't take one. What if they're wrong, after all?

 

[jonathan180iq]

At least Baal is a fertility god. Yahweh is a war god. What kind of creator is that???

Maybe Baal and Ceres humped this place into existence and Yahweh just took credit for it after he killed them in their sleep... He's just a jealous god, after all. And Ceres was pretty hot.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The one God. There is only One.

I understand your opinion, but which one is it? Yahweh or Allah I am guessing. I used to like Yahweh, the war deity.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Agnosticism may be the most rational or logical position but unfortunately religion is not rational or logical. Religion involves things like faith which cannot be reviewed logically or rationally.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I disagree. You are wanting them to make a choice you want them to make which is either/or, but it's not that simple. Ambiguity often disturbs people. There are theists who agree with you too on this. I see no reason to expect an Agnostic to be an atheist or a theist if they prefer to refrain from taking either position.

So you are saying that if someone is undecided about something, they in fact believe it?

You seem to be working under the false assumption disbelief is an affirmative position, it is not. Disbelief need not be claimed, it is the default. Nothing can be a belief until you have enough experience of a thing to come to a conclusion, whereas the lack of such requires only that you do not.

Again, basic epistemology. Go read up son.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I understand your opinion, but which one is it? Yahweh or Allah I am guessing. I used to like Yahweh, the war deity.

My understanding is that those are just different languages describing the One Reality - God. Allow me to explain it this way. There is only one sun in the sky. Whether you call it the sun of Monday or Wednesday or Friday, it is still the same one sun irrespective of what we call it. So whether we call Him Allah or Yahweh or Jehovah it is all the same.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

An Atheist lacks a belief in God(s) generally because there is no evidence of its existence.

Atheists can lack belief for good reasons, bad reasons, or no reasons at all. If a mentally ill person lacks belief in gods because he thinks his cat has told him that there are no gods, then he'd still be an atheist.

An Agnostic might see reasons for its existence as well as against it, but accept neither as adequate responses to the god question for themselves so they don't take one. What if they're wrong, after all?

The agnostic you describe would also be an atheist. Anyone who is not a theist is an atheist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The one God. There is only One.

Why do you assume that the "evidence" you see (if it is actually evidence) is evidence for the only god you believe in and not for someone else's one and only god that doesn't match yours?