Losing my atheism (my new spiritual journey)

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Atheism doesnt provide answers at all. What they say are just speculations.

Ask yourself this:
Can atheist look at the world through your eyes? NO
When they cant do that and they cant solve the mystery of death, the life of atheists is based on falsehood.

 

[Jumi]

Ask yourself this:
Can atheist look at the world through your eyes? NO
When they cant do that and they cant solve the mystery of death, the life of atheists is based on falsehood.

Can you look at the world through anyone else's eyes? No. Then according to your logic what you say is falsehood.

 

[Jake1001]

I know that this might sound surprising to whom knows my worldview, but I am seriously reconsidering my atheism (and naturalism).

I have been thinking a lot recently about the Universe and the place we occupy in it. And I asked myself the question: is that really all so pointless? Do we really evolve, live, die and that's it? Isn't maybe possible that humanity occupies a special place in the great scheme of things?

If we collect all the arguments that hint at the possibility of God, we cannot really see one that sets the issue. But all of them could give us some cumulative pieces of evidence all pointing to a possible trascendent reality. This is also the process we use to provide evidence in science.

For instance, the amazing effectivity of mathematics to describe the Universe is something I could not really explain as a naturalist. How is that possible that mathematics applies so perfectly to the fabric of reality if there is not a mind behind all this?

I also considered the fine tuning argument as one of the strongest ones in support of a non natural origin of conscious beings. The chances of life are so negligible that it seems really a stretch to believe that consciousness can arise out of unconscious processes. We should expect a Universe just filled with dead things and not one with life. Especially not one with introspective life, or life that goes beyond the immediate survival instincts: i.e life that can give the Universe itself a meaning.

But the key moment was this morning. And it was not a mere rational analysis. I just had a look out of my window. When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished. That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it. My Christian friend thinks that God is claiming me back, and, for the first time since a long time, I cannot definetely rule that out.


Ciao

- viole

If s/he is non-anthropomorphic, it doesn't change a thing.

If s/he is anthropomorphic, please give is his / her email address and phone #.

 

[JoStories]

Atheism doesnt provide answers at all. What they say are just speculations.

Ask yourself this:
Can atheist look at the world through your eyes? NO
When they cant do that and they cant solve the mystery of death, the life of atheists is based on falsehood.

How do you think that an atheist life is based on falsehood? Isn't it possible that they chose that life because it fits them? And btw, what falsehoods? That they don't believe in God, as you view it? That seems a bit unfair. Can you prove God to them? No. So why should you think they are living a life of falsehoods?

 

[gsa]

Atheism doesnt provide answers at all. What they say are just speculations.

Ask yourself this:
Can atheist look at the world through your eyes? NO
When they cant do that and they cant solve the mystery of death, the life of atheists is based on falsehood.

Yes, atheists are just speculating wildly. People being fashioned out of clay, djinns out of fire, flying donkeys, an incarnate human sacrifice wandering to help before resurrecting....these things are rooted in reason and logic.

 

[Serenity7855]

Atheism doesnt provide answers at all. What they say are just speculations.

Atheism does not provide answers to Christianity as they do not believe in Christ, or his Father. It is also true that because they have not been converted by the testimony of the Holy Ghost that they cannot absolutely denounce the existence of God. The simply do not know. They cannot see what I see.

Ask yourself this:
Can atheist look at the world through your eyes? NO
When they cant do that and they cant solve the mystery of death, the life of atheists is based on falsehood.

I understand completely the point you are making, however, the life of the atheist is based on what they believe to be true. They cannot know any different. They are more to be pitied then scorned. Their lives consist of three score and ten years, approximately, and then nothing. All that loving, caring, acquiring of knowledge and building of relationships all gone in the blink of an eye. I cannot think of anything more depressing. We should pity them for not having what we have got, and even worse then that, not wanting it either. When I die I will either continue to exist in Spirit, which I believe, or I will not exist at all. Either way I am in a win, win situation. If there is nothing then I will not care, I will be dead. If their is something then my bets have been edged and my efforts of being a morally accountable human being have not been in vain. The Atheist is in a lose, lose situation. If life continues then he will be in serious trouble. What does the astute intellectual do. Surely the wise choice is blatantly obvious, especially as God said that if you do as he commands then you will receive the testimony of the Holy Ghost. It is a promise. Surely if you have your head screwed on you would at the very least try, but people hate too change, to put in the effort, especially the rich.

 

[Typist]

I've heard this argument before and its nonsense. We all live in the same reality and it has obvious rules and characteristics that can be plainly observed and measured.

What is your sample size? That is, what is the relationship between the area we can observe, and the area "all of reality" which god claims and counter claims are being made about? Until you know your sample size, you have no idea how relevant our observations are to reality as a whole.

A key problem for many (not all) atheist ideologues is that they are so intent on rejecting god proposals that they can't be bothered to understand the proposal they are intent on rejecting.

God ideas are typically proposals about the fundamental nature of all reality. Usually they claim that all of reality arises from and is governed by some form of hyper-intelligence.

I completely agree that such God claims are totally unproven, but also claim that our ability to debunk such claims is also totally unproven.

But none of this matters to committed ideologues on either side. Issues like sample size don't interest them at all, even the science worshiping ideologues. They will keep on arguing for even more centuries, despite any evidence that such a debate accomplishes anything at all, because conflict is the goal they seek, and arguing is embraced for it's own sake.

 

[Typist]

In what way does atheism rely on faith?

Instead of addressing this over and over again in thread after thread, it might be kinder to readers to organize a discussion of atheist faith in one thread. If someone starts such a thread I'll try to participate.

If I appear weary, it's because I am. I've discussed this extensively for years, and it never accomplishes anything. If people want to believe in god, they will believe. If people want to reject God, they will reject. It's their right in both cases, and there's nothing anybody can do about it anyway.

So, one more thread on atheist faith for me, and that's it from here.

 

[JoStories]

Atheism does not provide answers to Christianity as they do not believe in Christ, or his Father. It is also true that because they have not been converted by the testimony of the Holy Ghost that they cannot absolutely denounce the existence of God. The simply do not know. They cannot see what I see.



I understand completely the point you are making, however, the life of the atheist is based on what they believe to be true. They cannot know any different. They are more to be pitied then scorned. Their lives consist of three score and ten years, approximately, and then nothing. All that loving, caring, acquiring of knowledge and building of relationships all gone in the blink of an eye. I cannot think of anything more depressing. We should pity them for not having what we have got, and even worse then that, not wanting it either. When I die I will either continue to exist in Spirit, which I believe, or I will not exist at all. Either way I am in a win, win situation. If there is nothing then I will not care, I will be dead. If their is something then my bets have been edged and my efforts of being a morally accountable human being have not been in vain. The Atheist is in a lose, lose situation. If life continues then he will be in serious trouble. What does the astute intellectual do. Surely the wise choice is blatantly obvious, especially as God said that if you do as he commands then you will receive the testimony of the Holy Ghost. It is a promise. Surely if you have your head screwed on you would at the very least try, but people hate too change, to put in the effort, especially the rich.

Why would you think that atheists should be pitied? If what they believe is of comfort to them, does it truly matter to anyone but themselves? I understand that you believe in heaven and such but not all do. I don't, for example. Do you pity me? Please don't because I have a deep faith in God, but I don't follow your path. Does that make me wrong and you correct in your view? Truth is, neither of us can know this side of death. I believe in eastern ways of spirituality. I understand that you believe the atheist is in a 'lose-lose' situation but again, the choice of,what one believes is up to them. I don't believe anyone should be pitied as I believe we all choose our experiences in this life. Perhaps the atheist needs to fully understand atheism. Perhaps you needed to understand Christianity. Does that make either you or they wrong. Not from where I am sitting.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Atheism doesnt provide answers at all. What they say are just speculations.

Um, no. That's what religion does. Atheism doesn't "provide" anything, because its not supposed to. It's a singular position on a singular subject. Religion, meanwhile, is just a lot of speculations masquerading as facts.

Ask yourself this:
Can atheist look at the world through your eyes? NO

Um... What? Do you mean this literally, or in terms of basic human empathy? Because I'd agree with the former, but not the latter.

When they cant do that and they cant solve the mystery of death, the life of atheists is based on falsehood.

This makes no sense. Just because we don't know something (or, at least, don't claim to know), how does that make our lives based on falsehood? Surely a position of "I don't know" is a correct and honest position for a person who doesn't know. The only falsehoods happen when people claim they know something that they actually don't.

 

[Serenity7855]

Why would you think that atheists should be pitied?

As I have said above "Their lives consist of three score and ten years, approximately, and then nothing. All that loving, caring, acquiring of knowledge and building of relationships all gone in the blink of an eye. I cannot think of anything more depressing". We should pity them, have compassion for them, for not having what we have got, and even worse then that, not wanting it either.

If what they believe is of comfort to them, does it truly matter to anyone but themselves?

What I believe gives me comfort but that does stop them from having ago at my beliefs. Besides, pity is nonevasive. They do not even have to know you have it for them. It is Godly Sorrow.

I understand that you believe in heaven and such but not all do. I don't, for example. Do you pity me?

Yes, of course I do. If I, like yourself, truly believe in my ideology, then you immediately want to share that with others, and pity those who do not have it. In this sense pity is a positive not a negative.

Please don't because I have a deep faith in God, but I don't follow your path. Does that make me wrong and you correct in your view?

If I am true to my own belief system, and my God, I would be lying if I didn't say that I am right and you are wrong, the alternative is to believe in what you believe in, if I thought it was right. Having said that, it would not be my right to try and force change upon you. I claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Truth is, neither of us can know this side of death.

No, that is true, however, we can be pretty darn sure. We do not know, for sure, that birds evolved from dinosaurs, however, I would stake my worth on it.

I believe in eastern ways of spirituality.

For which you will receive no critique from me. I don't really know that much about it.

I understand that you believe the atheist is in a 'lose-lose' situation but again, the choice of,what one believes is up to them.

I entirely agree, however, I to claim that right. Perhaps someone should inform the nasty atheists of my rights.

I don't believe anyone should be pitied as I believe we all choose our experiences in this life.

Take a quick look at what it means to have pity, - compassion, commiseration, condolence, sorrow, regret, sadness, distress, sympathy, fellow feeling, understanding, feeling, emotion, rue. Replace the word pity with words that mean the same, or similar, thing. Your words would sound like this. I don't believe anyone should be shown compassion, sorrow or sympathy.

Perhaps the atheist needs to fully understand atheism. Perhaps you needed to understand Christianity. Does that make either you or they wrong.

I do not understand what point you are making.

Not from where I am sitting.

We all feel comfortable in our own special chairs. I think you are interpreting my words as being negative to atheists, however, Au contraire mon ami, I have deep compassion for them. I care that they will miss something that will effect their eternal existence, but for just taking on the word of God, spoken through James, and others.

James 1:5-6

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.


3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

As I have said above "Their lives consist of three score and ten years, approximately, and then nothing. All that loving, caring, acquiring of knowledge and building of relationships all gone in the blink of an eye. I cannot think of anything more depressing".

I can: spending that one life you have desperately fixated on death and hoping against hope that there might be something beyond it because the thought of death terrifies you so much you'd rather embrace a fantasy than accept it.

Besides, not all atheists don't believe in life after death. Theism and life after death are not exclusive bedfellows.

We should pity them, have compassion for them, for not having what we have got, and even worse then that, not wanting it either.

I think it's quite pitiable to WANT an afterlife, but each to their own.

What I believe gives me comfort but that does stop them from having ago at my beliefs.

Of course not - but you constantly attempt to inflict your beliefs on others and tell us that we are wrong and should be pitied. That goes beyond "giving comfort" and becomes merely a way for you to use your beliefs as a weapon against others, and a way to make yourself feel superior. I know that probably sounds odd coming from an atheist (because, apparently, many posters on these forums seem to think that atheists have to arrogant and smug for some reason, so as an atheist I somehow fall into that category), but that's honestly how you come across. You can't be getting that much comfort out of it if you're so insecure that you react so vitriolically do people who just don't agree with you (and evade questions, like my earlier one about discrimination).

Yes, of course I do. If I, like yourself, truly believe in my ideology, then you immediately want to share that with others, and pity those who do not have it. In this sense pity is a positive not a negative.

Actually, in many ways I agree with you here. If you think what you believe is right (and by definition you always do), it makes sense that you would like more people to share your view than to not share your view. The difference is in how you go about doing it.

 

[viole]

They cannot know any different. They are more to be pitied then scorned. Their lives consist of three score and ten years, approximately, and then nothing. All that loving, caring, acquiring of knowledge and building of relationships all gone in the blink of an eye. I cannot think of anything more depressing. We should pity them for not having what we have got,

Once I met a 13 years old boy who still believed in Santa.

He told me he felt really sorry for his school friends who lost their faith in Santa; he really pitied them for not having what he has, anymore; who lost that hope, spirituality and sense of wonder for the loving and caring that Santa shows when preparing and bringing gifts at Christmas.

I am not sure who should be pitied, though

Ciao

- viole

 

[skl]

Atheism does not provide answers to Christianity as they do not believe in Christ, or his Father. It is also true that because they have not been converted by the testimony of the Holy Ghost that they cannot absolutely denounce the existence of God. The simply do not know. They cannot see what I see.

I understand completely the point you are making, however, the life of the atheist is based on what they believe to be true. They cannot know any different. They are more to be pitied then scorned. Their lives consist of three score and ten years, approximately, and then nothing. All that loving, caring, acquiring of knowledge and building of relationships all gone in the blink of an eye. I cannot think of anything more depressing. We should pity them for not having what we have got, and even worse then that, not wanting it either. When I die I will either continue to exist in Spirit, which I believe, or I will not exist at all. Either way I am in a win, win situation. If there is nothing then I will not care, I will be dead. If their is something then my bets have been edged and my efforts of being a morally accountable human being have not been in vain. The Atheist is in a lose, lose situation. If life continues then he will be in serious trouble. What does the astute intellectual do. Surely the wise choice is blatantly obvious, especially as God said that if you do as he commands then you will receive the testimony of the Holy Ghost. It is a promise. Surely if you have your head screwed on you would at the very least try, but people hate too change, to put in the effort, especially the rich.

Thank you for revealing that your motivation to believe in God is fear. From reading this passage I expect most readers including religious ones will now understand that you are likely to be living a lie. If God was to read this he would probably be happy that you are trying to get to heaven but "hedging your bets" and in a "win win situation" and the fact it is a promise that you go to heaven if you believe but when you do not mention one word about loving or worshiping the Lord God I think he will see through you because that is what he demands and that is what he gets off on. See you in the burning pit.

 

[Serenity7855]

Thank you for revealing that your motivation to believe in God is fear. From reading this passage I expect most readers including religious ones will now understand that you are likely to be living a lie. If God was to read this he would probably be happy that you are trying to get to heaven but "hedging your bets" and in a "win win situation" and the fact it is a promise that you go to heaven if you believe but when you do not mention one word about loving or worshiping the Lord God I think he will see through you because that is what he demands and that is what he gets off on. See you in the burning pit.

Nobody enters the Kingdom of God least he be Judged as worthy by his earthly probation. Every thought and every action will be judged by God. You are seeing the carnal action of edging ones bets, or being in a win, win situation, as a negative, when it is not. For anyone to win they have to fulfil the righteous principles of the gospel. For a edged bet to be realised you have to have the money to place on it. I have made my motivations clear. Do you doubt my words and misrepresent me with your own? I am a Christian. I know the consequences of baring false witness.

How are you able to say this. "Lord God I think he will see through you because that is what he demands and that is what he gets off on. See you in the burning pit." You do not believe in the existence of the God that I make utterance of. You are an atheist. They do not believe in the existence of God, let alone a burning pit, which gives me a pretty good indication as to why you failed. Burning Pits require oxygen, right? Fire cannot burn without it.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

When they cant do that and they cant solve the mystery of death, the life of atheists is based on falsehood.

And what is the mystery of death?

 

[Serenity7855]

Once I met a 13 years old boy who still believed in Santa.

He told me he felt really sorry for his school friends who lost their faith in Santa; he really pitied them for not having what he has, anymore; who lost that hope, spirituality and sense of wonder for the loving and caring that Santa shows when preparing and bringing gifts at Christmas.

I am not sure who should be pitied, though

Ciao

- viole

Yes, that is very true, That we should find it necessary, in the first place, to lie to our impressionable children, which I never did to mine, about a big fat old man, dressed in a red costume, who comes into our homes, when we are all asleep, and gives little children presents, for free. Parents, that have worked hard to buy those gifts for their children, only to have Santa recieve the praise and appreciation for the love given by mum and dad. What is Satan's main Goal. Yes, the destruction of the family unit. This doesn't help much, does it? Then, of course, we firmly instruct them to stay away from strangers, as though Santa is not a little strange, dressed up in a red costume. As we get a little older, we are chastized for believing the lie that the adults have told us. Our parents have not only been the only people who didn't bother to buy us a Christmas present, but they also lied their pants off about the guy who, they said, did. Everything about the charactor of Santa is wrong and imoral. Your point is a good one, until you look a little harder at its premises. Santa is a tool of Satan, used to take away the true meaning of Christmas, for which he is to be commended for almost fulfilling his goal. Heck, the name "Santa" is an anagram of his own name "Satan". That should be a bit of a give away.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So Santa is the devil? Oh no!!

 

[Serenity7855]

So Santa is the devil? Oh no!!

Is he? I thought he was a fictitious character.

 

[Typist]

I AM DIABLO!!!

I mean, you know, just in case anyone was wondering....