It's where I & my friends will all be.
Time to partay!
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Louisiana becomes first state to require that Ten Commandments be displayed in public classrooms
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
Time to partay!
He didn’t say he wanted one, he said it was one. As a Christian nation we permit all faith to exercise their rights to worship God, gods or none at all.
Signer and former presiden John Adams said:
"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty...
"Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
-Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.
Actually he was right. Jesus Christ permitted people to worship whomever they wanted to and though there is no qualification, as he said, “privilege”, not “compulsory”.
John Hancock - 3rd President reminds us of the Christian reality that God has given us unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And if happiness for you are other gods or no gods, God has given you that right:
John Hancock
1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."
--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
But God insisted otherwise in the first few commandments.
Something doesn't add up. The Ten Commandments do contradict the Constitution. So, perhaps none of these founders viewed them as relevant to their religion or to foundational law.
Indicating want.
Hardly a point worth arguing.
Some do.
But many don't, eg, Christians enacting laws against blasphemy.
I notice that you don't quote Jefferson.
Do the opinions of founders only matter
when advocating for Christianity?
We should note that founders had diverse
views. The Constitution is a document that
they jointly crafted. You don't get to re-write
it based solely upon what the Christian fundie
contingent wanted.
Last edited:
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Concerning John Jay being "right" according to Constitutional law:
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. John Jay First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court.”. Select and prefer?
This is obviously and clearly an opinion that contradicts that Constitutional law.
We have/had no official religion and Article IV prohibits any religious tests for public office.
McBell
Unbound
Well, when all they are doing is counting the hits and ignoring the misses...
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Do you believe much the same with the new law passed in Oklahoma whereas all public schools must teach the Bible?
Again, both laws should be declared unconstitutional based on the 1st Amendment and other SCOTUS decisions over the last several decades. We are not a theocracy so we should not act like we are.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Maybe the historical context is this:
John Jay > Quotes > Quotable Quote
(?)
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. John Jay First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court.”
― John Jay, Cliffs Notes on The Federalist
Interesting that the original framers of the Constitution called it a Christian nation
Back then, we basically were. However, since the framers were of a diverse nature religiously, they decided not to have us declared legally at least as a "Christian nation".
It does. Every Louisianan can own a copy. What isn't allowed if for government to be in the business of promoting one religious tradition. I think you know that by now. You just don't care. Church-state separation is a basic tenet of Americanism that you reject.
You're one of a large swathe of Americans who believes that his religion should be imposed on the unwilling. That contingent of Christians, which now seems to dominate in the Supreme Court, are enemies of the Constitution and of their non-Christian neighbors, to whom such people represent an imminent threat.
Irrelevant. They're indoctrinating school children using biblical scripture.
Most didn't. Jay should have known better than to make such a statement. America has a Christian majority (for now; that's evaporating) but a secular government, or at least that's what was intended.
A Christian nation wouldn't permit that. It's forbidden by the Ten Commandments.
Church-state separation is a humanist principle, and the church is its enemy. Many Christians have said it out loud:
- "The long term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to his Church's public marks of the covenant-baptism and holy communion-must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel." - Gary North
- "I hope to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be." - Jerry Falwell
What makes Christianity such a bad neighbor is that it is not content to have full freedom of worship for its own but wants to make others who don't want to comply with its religious beliefs.
This along with its many bigotries is why the church has so many detractors - the people who many Christians frame as haters of God. No, they "hate" the church and its effort to steal their country from them and make it a Christian theocracy. If the theocrats went silent, there's be much less to dislike about Christianity - mostly just the bigotries, which harm people even without using government, but that doesn't stop them from trying there as well as with book banning (homophobia) and religion-inspired threats to the well-being of pregnant women (misogyny).
That’s because you are in the Old Testament and not the New Testament which changed some of the Old Testament. Think of it as two last wills and testaments… the newer one invalidates the older one. It may have some of the old inheritance but it also adds new and better inheritances.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
That's what I stated. The resistance is evident.
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
no religious Test shall ever be Required as a Qualification To any Office or public Trust under the United States. US Constitution article 6Maybe the historical context is this:
John Jay > Quotes > Quotable Quote
(?)
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. John Jay First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court.”
― John Jay, Cliffs Notes on The Federalist
Interesting that the original framers of the Constitution called it a Christian nation
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
if this is the case why are the ten commandments being forced into every classroom?
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
I'm on board, if they choose to do this, with a dissolution from those secular binds in that state and as specified in the enacted law, but I would only be in support of this if federal funding continued per colonies (state) wishes. If not, then the church would need to pick up the tab and fund the schools themselves, which can be done, but this does not address the secular binds placed on other religious people in this nation, nor does it promote greater assembly efforts in other states for the inclusion of preferred document displays. If there is no interest, then this is an easy one...Do nothing and the protection of secular government plays its role adequately enough.
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
People should not forget that the US was originally under the Articles of Confederation, which allowed for establishments of religion at the state level. During the years before the federal Constitution was ratified, religious rivalries and inconsistencies disgusted a lot of people who disagreed with state-mandated religious subsidies. It was that backdrop that led to the affirmation of secular government in the first amendment. The Christian majority did not want the government to have anything to do with promoting or advocating for religion. The adoption of the first amendment also made a lot of Christians unhappy who felt that the government should endorse their religious beliefs. This unhappiness has lingered to this day, and that is why the Supreme Court religious majority has been chipping away at the original intent to keep the government from meddling in the religious beliefs of Americans.
JIMMY12345
Active Member
If Politicians obeyed the 10 commandments.There would be no Politicians.
And that would be a good thing....why?
Imagine a country wherein Christians all obeyed their commandments.