Louisiana becomes first state to require that Ten Commandments be displayed in public classrooms

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Imagine a country wherein Christians all obeyed their commandments.

Are there enough goats to go around?

 

[Revoltingest]

Are there enough goats to go around?

I hope so.
Sacrificing sheep might not go to well.

Spoiler: Much profanity & death

 

[Herzlich]

Maybe the historical context is this:

John Jay > Quotes > Quotable Quote​

(?)

“Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. John Jay First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court.”​

― John Jay, Cliffs Notes on The Federalist

Interesting that the original framers of the Constitution called it a Christian nation

President John Adams, a Christian “Congregationalist,” signed the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli (Article 11) codifying “that the United States is not, in any sense, a Christian nation.” It was unanimously ratified by the U.S. Senate.

 

[Pogo]

Maybe the historical context is this:

John Jay > Quotes > Quotable Quote​

(?)

“Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. John Jay First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court.”​

― John Jay, Cliffs Notes on The Federalist

Interesting that the original framers of the Constitution called it a Christian nation

Maybe so for some of them, but all of the Supreme Court justices who have ruled in favor of the separation of Church and State have also been Christian.

Being Christian does not mean you cannot have a secular state.

 

[Kenny]

Back then, we basically were. However, since the framers were of a diverse nature religiously, they decided not to have us declared legally at least as a "Christian nation".

Back then it was State authority and basic autonomy with a very limited federal government (it’s a shame we deviated from original intent). So I look at the State Constitutions.
.

 

[Kenny]

President John Adams, a Christian “Congregationalist,” signed the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli (Article 11) codifying “that the United States is not, in any sense, a Christian nation.” It was unanimously ratified by the U.S. Senate.

Yes… that is a “standby” reply. People don’t see that it was taken out when the redid that same treaty. There are only two quotable sources for “no religion” and dozens and dozens that say otherwise including “God has given us inalienable rights”.

 

[Kenny]

Maybe so for some of them, but all of the Supreme Court justices who have ruled in favor of the separation of Church and State have also been Christian.

Being Christian does not mean you cannot have a secular state.

You certainly can have a secular state. We probably can say that there are now some secular states in the current US composition. i’m talking about original intent like unto:

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the whole of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the commandments of God. The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded.” ~ James Madison

 

[Kenny]

if this is the case why are the ten commandments being forced into every classroom?

US Historical application

 

[Kenny]

Most didn't. Jay should have known better than to make such a statement. America has a Christian majority (for now; that's evaporating) but a secular government, or at least that's what was intended.

Except there are innumerable quotes from dozens of framers.

A Christian nation wouldn't permit that. It's forbidden by the Ten Commandments.

Again, you are in the TaNaKh and not in the New Will and Testament.

Church-state separation is a humanist principle, and the church is its enemy. Many Christians have said it out loud:

yes… humanism is against faith. The purpose of Freedom of Religion is to prevent those who are enemies to faith to force them not to worship (like the tried in various states during Covid like unto Nevada and California.

• "The long term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to his Church's public marks of the covenant-baptism and holy communion-must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel." - Gary North

Yes… we can find statements on either side that are extreme.

• "I hope to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be." - Jerry Falwell

Partially true. Public schools have become more of a “State indoctrination schools”. There should be Christian schools, private schools and, if you will, humanist schools and public schools but the money should follow the student. IMO.

What makes Christianity such a bad neighbor is that it is not content to have full freedom of worship for its own but wants to make others who don't want to comply with its religious beliefs.

Opinion. I have no beef in you worshipping yourself or other gods.

This along with its many bigotries is why the church has so many detractors - the people who many Christians frame as haters of God. No, they "hate" the church and its effort to steal their country from them and make it a Christian theocracy. If the theocrats went silent, there's be much less to dislike about Christianity - mostly just the bigotries, which harm people even without using government, but that doesn't stop them from trying there as well as with book banning (homophobia) and religion-inspired threats to the well-being of pregnant women (misogyny).

Bigotry can be found in any camp. We are talking foundational truth vs finding the exception to the rule.

 

[Pogo]

You certainly can have a secular state. We probably can say that there are now some secular states in the current US composition. i’m talking about original intent like unto:

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the whole of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the commandments of God. The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded.” ~ James Madison

Could well be what he believed, but they created a secular constitution based on their enlightenment ideas that human rationality was what was the basis of good government, not religious government as they had seen for their historical past.

You need to learn some perspective on your quotes as to the thought that was behind them.

The Age of Enlightenment​

What you are doing is called quote mining not different than if I say "there is not God" is what the bible says.

 

[Argentbear]

US Historical application

no one buys that

 

[McBell]

no one buys that

I disagree.
Now had you worded it "no one outside the choir buys it" I would agree 110%

 

[Kenny]

Could well be what he believed, but they created a secular constitution based on their enlightenment ideas that human rationality was what was the basis of good government, not religious government as they had seen for their historical past.

You need to learn some perspective on your quotes as to the thought that was behind them.

The Age of Enlightenment​

What you are doing is called quote mining not different than if I say "there is not God" is what the bible says.

no… they created a non-secular constitution that gave freedom of relgion.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.(FROM TO THE OFFICERS OF THE FIRST BRIGADE OF THE THIRD DIVISION OF THE MILITIA OF MASSACHUSETTS, 11 October, 1798)
John Adams

You can be secular and moral but it was made for moral AND religious people.

 

[Kenny]

no one buys that

Apparently “no one” doesn’t include the state of Louisiana.

 

[Argentbear]

Apparently “no one” doesn’t include the state of Louisiana.

having seen interviews with the legislators who wrote up the law its apparent that their singular goal is indoctrination

 

[Pogo]

no… they created a non-secular constitution that gave freedom of relgion.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.(FROM TO THE OFFICERS OF THE FIRST BRIGADE OF THE THIRD DIVISION OF THE MILITIA OF MASSACHUSETTS, 11 October, 1798)
John Adams

You can be secular and moral but it was made for moral AND religious people.

Whoosh.

 

[Kenny]

Whoosh.

John Adams was quite impactful, wasn’t he?

 

[Pogo]

John Adams was quite impactful, wasn’t he?

 

[metis]

Back then it was State authority and basic autonomy with a very limited federal government (it’s a shame we deviated from original intent).

They did eliminate because we were acting like 13 countries with voluntary federal taxation while trying to prepare for war. IOW, it simply didn't work.

 

[Copernicus]

no… they created a non-secular constitution that gave freedom of relgion.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.(FROM TO THE OFFICERS OF THE FIRST BRIGADE OF THE THIRD DIVISION OF THE MILITIA OF MASSACHUSETTS, 11 October, 1798)
John Adams

You can be secular and moral but it was made for moral AND religious people.

Wrong. The Constitution was made for all US citizens regardless of religion. You aren't entitled to any special privileges or treatment, regardless of your beliefs. The Supreme Court may temporarily give you some, but things will go back to normal when there is a better balanced Court