Louisiana becomes first state to require that Ten Commandments be displayed in public classrooms

[Kenny]

And I know that you (Kenny) don't care. You're probably smiling.

It would seem like your position is the same position you accuse Christians of.

Blowback has happened ever since Jesus came on the scene.

 

[metis]

The suggestion was that the effort is an indoctrination attempt and not a constitutional argument for the inclusion of the 10. Obviously, they are known as Christian and from Abrahamic origin. My suggestion is that this is a 1st amendment issue and that the 10 do more to protect other religions and the non-religious than imposing religion on anyone. I particularly like the no requirement affirmation that we are not required to make idols and worship them and how the honor your mother and father would dictate allowing others to do the same. The God reference is broad and if you don't prescribe to Christianity or Abrahamic religions, then even currency has a God association attached. A particular point I make is "what isn't God"? Of course I'm a Pantheist who identifies as a Panenthiest, so my understanding of God is my own and no one is required to view this the same way.

Again, no matter how one may try to play this, these are mostly religious laws and it's obvious that there is a pushing religion on others. This isn't by any means the first time this has been done or tried.

 

[metis]

Which I find odd… since every Constitution very specifically mentions God. Somewhere the translation as presented isn’t correct.

"God" really is a generic term as many religions have beliefs in god or gods. With the Decalogue, this deals with only two of the world's religions, so why should they be pushed at the expense of the others and also those who have different beliefs, religious or not? Aren't they important and be respected as well?

 

[metis]

f


To be frank, the anti-religious posts have been so numerous that I have lost what all the points people have tried to make… thus my point of religiophobia.

I haven't seen much of that on this thread as separation of church & state is not "religiophobia". The real issue here largely dealing with constitutional law and the attempt by some to push their religious beliefs into the "rule of law".

 

[Kenny]

"God" really is a generic term as many religions have beliefs in god or gods. With the Decalogue, this deals with only two of the world's religions, so why should they be pushed at the expense of the others and also those who have different beliefs, religious or not? Aren't they important and be respected as well?

If there is an application to US Law from another religion, I think it would have every right to be posted also. If there are Greek applications to US Law… post them. I don’t think erasing historical realities is an answer to anything. We shouldn’t erase the realities of historicity of slavery in the US and we shouldn’t erase reality that US Law used much of the 10 commandments aa a basis for law.

 

[Argentbear]

If there is an application to US Law from another religion, I think it would have every right to be posted also. If there are Greek applications to US Law… post them. I don’t think erasing historical realities is an answer to anything. We shouldn’t erase the realities of historicity of slavery in the US and we shouldn’t erase reality that US Law used much of the 10 commandments aa a basis for law.

you can't erase something that wasn't there in the first place

 

[Copernicus]

If there is an application to US Law from another religion, I think it would have every right to be posted also. If there are Greek applications to US Law… post them. I don’t think erasing historical realities is an answer to anything. We shouldn’t erase the realities of historicity of slavery in the US and we shouldn’t erase reality that US Law used much of the 10 commandments aa a basis for law.

No, it absolutely did not. There is no reference to the 10 commandments at all in the historical documentation surrounding the Constitution. The ancient historical basis, if you want to go in for that kind of argument, would really be the pagan Code of Hammurabi, which predated Jewish law by centuries. Hammurabi was traditionally depicted as receiving his code from the Babylonian Sun god Shamash, and that may have been the inspiration for the myth of Moses receiving his commandments from the god Yahweh. Hammurabi's code is perhaps the earliest example of an extensive legal code used to govern a complex civil society. There is evidence of some influence on Mosaic law, particularly the concept of lex talionis--the process of reciprocal justice ("eye for an eye"). It is also interesting that the earlier Hammurabi's Code also treated the accused as being presumed innocent unless proven guilty. That is, accusations without evidence could result in a harsh penalty for the accuser.

Posting the 10 commandments in schoolrooms is not going to have any positive impact on the behavior of pupils in those schools, nor will it give them a greater understanding of our system of laws. Posting Hammurabi's Code would seem to be a more logical thing to force schools to display in classrooms, but I doubt that it would help the educational system any more than posting the 10 Commandments would. Grade schoolers would be too young to understand its historical value.

 

[metis]

If there is an application to US Law from another religion, I think it would have every right to be posted also. If there are Greek applications to US Law… post them. I don’t think erasing historical realities is an answer to anything. We shouldn’t erase the realities of historicity of slavery in the US and we shouldn’t erase reality that US Law used much of the 10 commandments aa a basis for law.

You keep missing the point, namely that there's been a separation of church & state as an ideal even though there have been periodic breaches in that protocol. As John Locke had warned us, there's always a danger of a "tyranny of the majority".

I'm not "erasing historical realities", but our representative democracy cannot be credited to either Judaism nor Christianity, nor can the Bill of Rights be credited to either. Thus, the Ten Commandments are not the "basis of law", including six of them that are strictly religious laws.

BTW, are you aware you are taking a "woke" position that deals with remembering our atrocities, such as slavery? And please let us know when public schools are mandated to post the Five Pillars of Faith and the Four Noble Truths, and...

 

[Kenny]

No, it absolutely did not. There is no reference to the 10 commandments at all in the historical documentation surrounding the Constitution. The ancient historical basis, if you want to go in for that kind of argument, would really be the pagan Code of Hammurabi, which predated Jewish law by centuries. Hammurabi was traditionally depicted as receiving his code from the Babylonian Sun god Shamash, and that may have been the inspiration for the myth of Moses receiving his commandments from the god Yahweh. Hammurabi's code is perhaps the earliest example of an extensive legal code used to govern a complex civil society. There is evidence of some influence on Mosaic law, particularly the concept of lex talionis--the process of reciprocal justice ("eye for an eye"). It is also interesting that the earlier Hammurabi's Code also treated the accused as being presumed innocent unless proven guilty. That is, accusations without evidence could result in a harsh penalty for the accuser.

Posting the 10 commandments in schoolrooms is not going to have any positive impact on the behavior of pupils in those schools, nor will it give them a greater understanding of our system of laws. Posting Hammurabi's Code would seem to be a more logical thing to force schools to display in classrooms, but I doubt that it would help the educational system any more than posting the 10 Commandments would. Grade schoolers would be too young to understand its historical value.

A lot of suppositions, interpretive liberties, and opinions here.

 

[Argentbear]

A lot of suppositions, interpretive liberties, and opinions here.

Wow, Irony

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Y'all. Like it or not, the state of Louisiana is saying that these are HISTORIC documents and thus they can hang in the classrooms. Because like it or not, this nation was founded on the Abrahamic, Christian faith. So just like we swear on a bible in a courtroom, or trade in currency that has "In God We Trust" on it, and Congress opens in prayer and all that good stuff, the state of Louisiana is saying that these are historic documents.

MSN

Actually official US documents state explicitly America was not in amy sense established upon the Christian religion. This is a document written and signed by some of thr Founders.

 

[wellwisher]

Again, no matter how one may try to play this, these are mostly religious laws and it's obvious that there is a pushing religion on others. This isn't by any means the first time this has been done or tried.

If the teachers in Louisiana start pushing and brain washing the children, 10 commandments propaganda, without parental consent, like they did with Transgender and the religion of Pronouns, I would say a line was being crossed. But just posting something in the lobby, allows the students to opt out, simply by ignoring or looking the other way. I get the impression Liberals and the 10 Commandment are like a moth and a flame, and there is a fear of catching fire. Nobody will force you, like pronouns, so you can look the other way.

One poll we can have is, how many of the 10 Commandment have you broken? If it is more than half, I can understand your concern about a constant reminder of the past and future intent. It might be hard giving up bearing false witness against Trump. What is a Liberal without juicy gossip?

A Democracy is about majority rule and not allowing a minority of cry babies to get their way. The latter is a threat to Democracy. For example, 6 in 10 people in the US see illegal immigration as a problem. The majority want legal immigration but not illegal. In a Democracy the leaders would listen and not act as King. The fact that the DNC still wants a form of Socialism, tells you they are a threat to Democracy, since Socialism is not about majority rule. It is about minority rule closer to a monarchy. The whiny cry babies are not Princes and Princesses in a Democracy but can be in Socialism if you play politics right or buy influence.

 

[anotherneil]

I wonder which Religion's version of the 10 commandments - catholic, orthodox, protestant, muslim, jewish, other?

Can a school make up its own 10 commandments and use that?

 

[Argentbear]

I wonder which Religion's version of the 10 commandments - catholic, orthodox, protestant, muslim, jewish, other?

Can a school make up its own 10 commandments and use that?

the state has mandated a particular form of the ten commandments i beleive the Southern Baptist variety

 

[anotherneil]

the state has mandated a particular form of the ten commandments i beleive the Southern Baptist variety

Do you have anything to back this up? The reason I ask is because I just now looked at what the religion is of the Louisiana governor is, and according to what I found, he's Roman Catholic. I, myself, was raised Roman Catholic, and when I was religious, I wouldn't have been able to believe that a Roman Catholic governor would ever endorse anything pertaining to religion that is not from the Roman Catholic church.

 

[Argentbear]

If the teachers in Louisiana start pushing and brain washing the children, 10 commandments propaganda, without parental consent, like they did with Transgender and the religion of Pronouns, I would say a line was being crossed. But just posting something in the lobby, allows the students to opt out, simply by ignoring or looking the other way. I get the impression Liberals and the 10 Commandment are like a moth and a flame, and there is a fear of catching fire. Nobody will force you, like pronouns, so you can look the other way.

Like people can look away from pronouns?

One poll we can have is, how many of the 10 Commandment have you broken? If it is more than half, I can understand your concern about a constant reminder of the past and future intent. It might be hard giving up bearing false witness against Trump.

lies like the election was stolen sure seem difficult for Trumps followers to give up

A Democracy is about majority rule and not allowing a minority of cry babies to get their way.

Democracy is a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, (even minorities) typically through elected representatives. A democracy provides an environment that respects human rights and fundamental freedoms, and in which the freely expressed will of people is exercised.

The latter is a threat to Democracy. For example, 6 in 10 people in the US see illegal immigration as a problem. The majority want legal immigration but not illegal. In a Democracy the leaders would listen and not act as King.

SO why are republican's refusing to address the issue of the country's broken immigration laws?

The fact that the DNC still wants a form of Socialism, tells you they are a threat to Democracy, since Socialism is not about majority rule. It is about minority rule closer to a monarchy. The whiny cry babies are not Princes and Princesses in a Democracy but can be in Socialism if you play politics right or buy influence.

Social Security
roads
libraries
fire departments
schools
just some of the evils of Socialism

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually official US documents state explicitly America was not in amy sense established upon the Christian religion. This is a document written and signed by some of thr Founders.

You see their proffered argument....
The Bible is historically significant in USA.
There it should have its Commandments
posted, & it should be taught in all schools.

it's a cover for the real agenda, ie, to
proselytize Christianity. "History" is a ruse.
Do they plan to show Christianity's darker
side in US "history"?
Manifest destiny, pogroms, slavery, intolerance,
oppression, thievery, theocracy?
No. They speak only of their faith's positive side.
**** their sky fairy myths & agendas.

 

[Copernicus]

So, which of the three biblical versions of the 10 Commandments is the Louisiana law requiring schools to post? The following opinion piece was written by a professor of Middle Eastern studies at The University of Texas at Austin regarding the issue brought up in Texas back then. His point was that:

What we now call the Ten Commandments is ultimately a creation of our own making. In fact, you can argue that it is mostly an American creation. Yes, our version was inspired by the biblical version(s), but it has lived in the American consciousness long enough that it has taken on a life of its own. We have infused the rules with new meaning and put our own uniquely American stamp on their purpose. What we call the Ten Commandments is not so much a religious product as an American one.

He has some interesting points to make about the meaning and purpose of the biblical versions and how that differs from the American version.

Ten Commandments in Texas Classrooms: But What Version?​

 

[Revoltingest]

So, which of the three biblical versions of the 10 Commandments is the Louisiana law requiring schools to post? The following opinion piece was written by a professor of Middle Eastern studies at The University of Texas at Austin regarding the issue brought up in Texas back then. His point was that:



He has some interesting points to make about the meaning and purpose of the biblical versions and how that differs from the American version.

Ten Commandments in Texas Classrooms: But What Version?​

An explanation to address the continual revision
of the Bible that I've heard is that God inspires
all revisions, & wouldn't allow corruption.
Of course, any who disagree are labelled as corrupt.

The Truth is such a slippery concept, eh.
They all have it. And it's all different.
And all others are wrong.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

it's a cover for the real agenda, ie, to
proselytize Christianity. "History" is a ruse.
Do they plan to show Christianity's darker
side in US "history"?
Manifest destiny, pogroms, slavery, intolerance,
oppression, thievery, theocracy?
No. They speak only of their faith's positive side.
**** their sky fairy myths & agendas.

You forgot to include genocide against the Natives, justified because they are "godless heathens." Amd you can credit the Protestants with helping to create the Irish and Italian mafias given American Prots traditional hatred of Catholics. And don't forget the Klan.