"Make Rape Legal" Men's Group Plans Events in 43 Countries for Saturday

[SkepticThinker]

This used to be the case here in the USA, but not any more. Feminists have pushed the definition to include almost any sex a woman regrets having.
Julian Assange was accused of rape and Sweden tried to extradict him. There was no force involved. Here on RF there was a whole episode about a woman out east. She invited a man who had been hitting on her to sleep in her bed with her. She let him take off her underwear and have sex with her. After she thought about it for a couple of days she decided that he had raped her and filed charges. The fact that she'd never actually said Yes made her a rape victim in a lot of people's minds.
I suggested a new category of rape to go along with statutory and violent, "voluntary rape".
This did not go over well with the feminists.
Tom

That's nuts.
When I think of rape, that's definitely not what comes to mind.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's interesting in and of itself. I wonder why not.

I speculate that there were old notions women were to be on a pedestal,
& that rape of men wasn't a thing.

 

[Jumi]

I speculate that there were old notions women were to be on a pedestal,
& that rape of men wasn't a thing.

It was something of such deep shame that it was not talked about. The ultimate humiliation.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I speculate that there were old notions women were to be on a pedestal,
& that rape of men wasn't a thing.

Sounds pretty archaic. I guess nobody had ever visited a men's prison before.

So the FBI's archaic definition of rape lines up with my line of thinking that rape is violent in nature, but their new definition leans more toward your line of thinking around consent.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sounds pretty archaic. I guess nobody had ever visited a men's prison before.

Prison rape is a pretty well known thing.
There's actually much approval of it.
My sister (a feminist) once told me that it's good....so men to know what it's like to be raped.
I disagreed.

So the FBI's archaic definition of rape lines up with my line of thinking that rape is violent in nature, but their new definition leans more toward your line of thinking around consent.

How so?
Is it because violence isn't a necessary criterion?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Those evil feminists... stretching the definition of rape to include statutory rape and "non-violent" rape. The horror!

-- Some random Internet dudes, 2016

 

[Revoltingest]

Those evil feminists... stretching the definition of rape to include statutory rape and "non-violent" rape. The horror!

-- Some random Internet dudes, 2016

Any thoughts about how the perps of various kinds of rape should be treated in the legal system?
The same? Differently?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Prison rape is a pretty well known thing.
There's actually much approval of it.
My sister (a feminist) once told me that it's good....so men to know what it's like to be raped.
I disagreed.

Eesh. That's the first time I've heard that one. I have to disagree with your sister as well.

How so?
Is it because violence isn't a necessary criterion?

Well, their old definition talks about it being "forcible," (although it does also mention "against her will") while the newer definition took the word out altogether and just talks about penetration without the victim's consent.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Those evil feminists... stretching the definition of rape to include statutory rape and "non-violent" rape. The horror!

-- Some random Internet dudes, 2016

Boy oh boy, this is a much more complicated topic than I ever imagined!

 

[Revoltingest]

Eesh. That's the first time I've heard that one. I have to disagree with your sister as well.

In fairness to her, I think it was something said carelessly.
But it illustrates how we have a problem of tacit tolerance of prison violence of all kinds.

Well, their old definition talks about it being "forcible," (although it does also mention "against her will") while the newer definition took the word out altogether and just talks about penetration without the victim's consent.

This is a big improvement.
It covers threats, assault while intoxicated or under anesthesia (yes, it happens), etc.
Some vile assaults aren't violent, but nonetheless warrant vigorous prosecution.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Any thoughts about how the perps of various kinds of rape should be treated in the legal system?
The same? Differently?

In general:

- An 18-year-old having consensual sex with a 17-year-old should be treated differently from a 50-year-old doing the same.

- Perpetrators who rape drunk or sleeping victims without the use of physical force should receive the same punishment as those who use physical force.

- Child rapists should receive life in prison or capital punishment, period.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Boy oh boy, this is a much more complicated topic than I ever imagined!

One would think that "no means no" is a simple concept, yet a lot of people accuse feminists of stretching the definition of rape when all feminists have done is point out the fact that sex without clear consent is a violation of a person's body.

 

[Revoltingest]

In general:
- An 18-year-old having consensual sex with a 17-year-old should be treated differently from a 50-year-old doing the same.
- Perpetrators who rape drunk or sleeping victims without the use of physical force should receive the same punishment as those who use physical force.
- Child rapists should receive life in prison or capital punishment, period.

We're not so far apart, but.....
- I oppose capital punishment.
- I can see imposing a harsher sentence for rapes when there's more injury, greater violence, or greater violation of trust (eg, a doctor raping an anesthetized patient).

 

[Revoltingest]

One would think that "no means no" is a simple concept, yet a lot of people accuse feminists of stretching the definition of rape when all feminists have done is point out the fact that sex without clear consent is a violation of a person's body.

Nothing is simple in our legal system.
It is truly incredible how much more complicated something can become in the courtroom....I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it up close & personal.

 

[Debater Slayer]

We're not so far apart, but.....
- I oppose capital punishment.
- I can see imposing a harsher sentence for rapes when there's more injury, greater violence, or greater violation of trust (eg, a doctor raping an anesthetized patient).

I generally oppose capital punishment too, but proved child rapists receiving it wouldn't really upset me greatly.

How would you define "greater violation of trust"? Is a guy raping his girlfriend really any less violating of his victim's trust than a doctor who rapes an anesthetized patient?

 

[SkepticThinker]

In fairness to her, I think it was something said carelessly.
But it illustrates how we have a problem of tacit tolerance of prison violence of all kinds.

Yes, I think it does.
I don't want to attack your sister or anything, I'm sure she's lovely.

This is a big improvement.
It covers threats, assault while intoxicated or under anesthesia (yes, it happens), etc.
Some vile assaults aren't violent, but nonetheless warrant vigorous prosecution.

It's definitely an improvement over the older version.
I think we're pretty close to agreeing, although I still say rape under anesthesia is an act of violence.

 

[columbus]

That's nuts.
When I think of rape, that's definitely not what comes to mind.

I agree.
That's why I am not a feminist, but a mere egalitarian.
Tom

 

[SkepticThinker]

In general:

- An 18-year-old having consensual sex with a 17-year-old should be treated differently from a 50-year-old doing the same.

- Perpetrators who rape drunk or sleeping victims without the use of physical force should receive the same punishment as those who use physical force.

- Child rapists should receive life in prison or capital punishment, period.

I agree with all of this, minus the capital punishment part because I just don't support that, in general.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Nothing is simple in our legal system.
It is truly incredible how much more complicated something can become in the courtroom....I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it up close & personal.

I think I should mention that I hail from a country whose legal system doesn't even recognize marital rape and where a major political party has actually denounced an international human rights convention for recognizing marital rape as a crime.

So, yeah, I see where feminists are coming from and why they are so forceful in making sure the definition of rape actually covers all instances of the crime.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I agree.
That's why I am not a feminist, but a mere egalitarian.
Tom

I think I may be an egalitarian as well.