"Make Rape Legal" Men's Group Plans Events in 43 Countries for Saturday

[columbus]

Tom, we could also ask why do drunk guys get to file assault charges, but being drunk is not a defense against the assault charge?

Sure.
One important aspect is that consent is not a factor in assault charges. If two people get into a fight, neither can say that they are the victim due to alcohol if they were both drunk. But women can say that they are a victim due to getting drunk, and men can't say "I was drunk" as a defense.
Simple. Women have rights men don't have.
Tom

 

[Jumi]

Sure.
One important aspect is that consent is not a factor in assault charges. If two people get into a fight, neither can say that they are the victim due to alcohol if they were both drunk. But women can say that they are a victim due to getting drunk, and men can't say "I was drunk" as a defense.
Simple. Women have rights men don't have.
Tom

Nope. You don't think a man who was raped has that right?

 

[columbus]

Nope. You don't think a man who was raped has that right?

Has what right?
The right to accuse someone of a serious crime based on being too drunk to remember what anybody said?
No, I don't think anybody has that right.
Keep in mind, please, I am not a feminist.
Tom

 

[Jumi]

Has what right?
The right to accuse someone of a serious crime based on being too drunk to remember what anybody said?
No, I don't think anybody has that right.

You're changing the story now.

Keep in mind, please, I am not a feminist.

Why would that be relevant to me?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If there are men promoting this, they should be arrested. Free speech shouldn't become synonymous with gathering together to promote crimes. Rape is a crime, and it always will be...and it always should be.

That said, there is a problem in the US anyway, where some (not a small number, if you read stats, articles, etc) women falsely accuse men, and those women should be prosecuted, as well. Falsely accusing people of crimes, going under oath in a court of law and committing perjury etc...are also crimes, and should not go with just a slap on the wrist.There is an imbalance of equality in these cases, often times. From reading all the stories out there of women who come forward after ruining a guy's life, admitting that they lied and falsely accused the guys of raping them...I no longer believe women right off the bat, just because I'm a woman. When I read/hear all the facts of a case, then I figure things out. But, even in cases of female teachers seducing their underage male students, many women just get probation, and no jail time, whereas male teachers who sleep with their underage female students, get jail time. This is a double standard I'd like to see stop.

As for the poll, most rapists are not capable of rehabilitation, which is why they are so often...repeat offenders. Rape isn't typically committed by someone who is a healthy minded individual.

The FBI lists false rape reporting to be as frequent as false arson reporting or false grand theft reporting (between 2-6%).

I advise you to re-check your sources for the false rape claims.

And yes, I read and study facts and studies and volunteer in crisis centers. "False rape" listed as a major crisis against men is a propaganda tactic to further the suspicion against rape survivors who under-report their attackers.

Don't fall for this propaganda tactic, Deidre. You're too smart for that.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Why do drunk chicks always get to file rape charges, but being drunk is not a defense against the rape charge?
Tom

Really? Referring to rape victims as "drunk chicks"?

Could this dismissive misogynistic rhetoric be any more blatant?

 

[Deidre]

The FBI lists false rape reporting to be as frequent as false arson reporting or false grand theft reporting (between 2-6%).

I advise you to re-check your sources for the false rape claims.

And yes, I read and study facts and studies and volunteer in crisis centers. "False rape" listed as a major crisis against men is a propaganda tactic to further the suspicion against rape survivors who under-report their attackers.

Don't fall for this propaganda tactic, Deidre. You're too smart for that.

I appreciate you posting this...here is an interesting article about this topic.
I never know what to fully believe when it comes to these situations and stats. It's an interesting article, though.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/416536/how-common-are-false-rape-charges-really-jason-richwine

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is a bit vague...but think I know where you're going with it. The thing is though...if a woman told you no, whether you were drunk...she were drunk...you both were drunk...wouldn't you in good conscience...not proceed? Someone being drunk...doesn't mean that it gives someone the right to take advantage of that fact. It's just called being a good person. lol

Having sex with someone who is intoxicated or under the influence is considered rape in some places. I think it should be that way in all places.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/416536/how-common-are-false-rape-charges-really-jason-richwine

Even that says that in the case it was reviewing, only 5.9% were demonstrably false. This suggests that even a "rape hotspot" has a rate of false accusations that fall within what the FBI reports, which makes it a rare occurrence. It also shows another trifling statistic, one that the "false accusation" crowd doesn't bring up - ever - is that only 35.3% lead to a formal charge or disciplinary action. For a variety of reasons, most rapists never face justice (actually, most criminals in general do not). And instead of worrying about people who have raped and are still at large, they make a mountain out of the mole hill that is a few people being falsely charged.

 

[9Westy9]

Having sex with someone who is intoxicated or under the influence is considered rape in some places. I think it should be that way in all places.

So if a man and woman both get drunk and have sex then they should both be convicted of rape (or one of rape and the other of "forced to penetrate" depending on your definition of rape)?

 

[Deidre]

Even that says that in the case it was reviewing, only 5.9% were demonstrably false. This suggests that even a "rape hotspot" has a rate of false accusations that fall within what the FBI reports, which makes it a rare occurrence. It also shows another trifling statistic, one that the "false accusation" crowd doesn't bring up - ever - is that only 35.3% lead to a formal charge or disciplinary action. For a variety of reasons, most rapists never face justice (actually, most criminals in general do not). And instead of worrying about people who have raped and are still at large, they make a mountain out of the mole hill that is a few people being falsely charged.

Well, I have always wondered if the percentage of women (who have been raped) who come forward is entirely accurate...meaning, are there more and they are too afraid to come forward, so they stay silent. And are there women who are too afraid to come forward who have falsely accused someone of rape. So the stats can only be what has been reported. And another stat that rarely gets thrown into these conversations, is that men and boys get raped at high rates. Rape isn't a woman only issue. If we look at the military and prison, men get raped more often, and there doesn't seem to be much discussion over it.

 

[columbus]

Really? Referring to rape victims as "drunk chicks"?

Could this dismissive misogynistic rhetoric be any more blatant?

You know why I don't spend a lot of time discussing this sort of thing with feminists?
Because disagreeing with feminists makes me a dismissive misogynist.
Tom

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And another stat that rarely gets thrown into these conversations, is that men and boys get raped at high rates. Rape isn't a woman only issue. If we look at the military and prison, men get raped more often, and there doesn't seem to be much discussion over it.

That's because men do not get raped nearly as often. The military just has a rape problem, in general, and while if a man is going to raped it's most likely to happen in prison, these things are not even general public. They are problems with oversight in those institutions. And, yes, those numbers do get tossed out. I think it's in Sweden they even just developed/opened a hospital rape-survivor program/clinic that is for men.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So if a man and woman both get drunk and have sex then they should both be convicted of rape (or one of rape and the other of "forced to penetrate" depending on your definition of rape)?

Maybe not charged with rape, but definitely made to receive counseling on drug abuse and good decision making. What I was talking about in the other post was in reference to someone using drugs to take advantage of someone and bypassing "normal" modes of consent.

 

[9Westy9]

Maybe not charged with rape, but definitely made to receive counseling on drug abuse and good decision making. What I was talking about in the other post was in reference to someone using drugs to take advantage of someone and bypassing "normal" modes of consent.

Oh, fair enough. I can agree with that.

 

[Deidre]

This is an interesting website...and gives some stats. 63% of rapes go unreported to police??

http://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/...packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf

 

[Deidre]

Maybe not charged with rape, but definitely made to receive counseling on drug abuse and good decision making. What I was talking about in the other post was in reference to someone using drugs to take advantage of someone and bypassing "normal" modes of consent.

agree, this would be a good thing.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You know why I don't spend a lot of time discussing this sort of thing with feminists?
Because disagreeing with feminists makes me a dismissive misogynist.
Tom

Care to share more on how you think feminists are mean and out to get people who disagree with them? Because you haven't done that enough in other posts, of course.

By the way, calling your comment dismissive and misogynistic doesn't mean I'm calling you, as a person, dismissive and misogynistic. Confusing the two amounts to trying to shut down criticism of your position because you don't like how it is described by those who disagree with you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is an interesting website...and gives some stats. 63% of rapes go unreported to police??

http://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/...packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf

To put out my own "decisive" view, I do blame patriarchy for much of that, but I also blame our very broken and very for-profit legal system. Most rapes go unreported. Most rapists never face justice for their crimes. But, if we broaden the scale, most crimes go unreported and most criminals never face justice. With rape, we can look at things like character assassination, but we have on the other hand a very strong indication that our legal system is completely broken, and for a moment we must not focus on just rape, but crime as a whole. We can look at many statistics that make it harder to report rape, such as the rapist being a boss or family member, the word of a "****" versus the word of a "saint," but there is also most definitely other factors that are a symptom of a larger problem, that problem being how broken and non-functioning our legal system is.

 

[columbus]

Care to share more on how you think feminists are mean and out to get people who disagree with them? Because you haven't done that enough in other posts, of course.

By the way, calling your comment dismissive and misogynistic doesn't mean I'm calling you, as a person, dismissive and misogynistic. Confusing the two amounts to trying to shut down criticism of your position because you don't like how it is described by those who disagree with you.

Why, Bless your heart.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Why do drunk chicks always get to file rape charges, but being drunk is not a defense against the rape charge?
Tom

I've often wondered if 2 drunk students (male & female) have sex,
would the female ever be charged because the male was impaired?