Man sentenced to death for sorcery.

[blackout]

if you do not commit a crime though. i don't know if the religious police are anywhere around the places that non-muslims are allowed to visit.

There's REALLY a "religious police"?

The world is a freak show.

 

[Gharib]

Not4me, how can you reconcile you're thoughts that a Muslim country under Sharia law should allow a Muslim to convert to Christianity with the apostasy laws of the Hadith?

there are 2 scholarly perspectives on apostasy

 

[Gharib]

There's REALLY a "religious police"?

The world is a freak show.

there's really people saying they are sorcerers very well knowing that is just nonsense?

that is a freak show.:rainbow1:

 

[Gharib]

So I guess that you consider Killing a man for sorcery 'Humane' then?

no saying that drugs, which are readily available from the government, are illegal and anyone who is caught selling will be punished is humane, isn't it.

 

[blackout]

there's really people saying they are sorcerers very well knowing that is just nonsense?

that is a freak show.:rainbow1:

What you really believe I do not know,
but to the extent that you feel we are such a threat
that we must be executed...

nonsense is not a word that comes to mind.


I guess then the "religious gestapo" has a "freak police" division.

Kill the freaks! Kill the freaks!

And your nonexistent NONSENSE FREAK thug of a "god"
gives you the imaginary right.
In your own vapid...religiously policed minds....

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thank you. I don't know why Penguin is ignoring this fundamental question.

I don't know why you think I'm ignoring you, because I thought I made my opinion clear several times now. IMO, even democracies should not violate fundamental human rights and freedoms, such as:

- freedom of belief and conscience
- freedom of speech and expression
- freedom from unnecessarily harsh or arbitrary laws
- security of the person, such as the right to move freely within the country and to not be murdered, assaulted, etc.

None of these things should be violated except where reasonably justified and only then through due process of law.

If you can come up with an Islamic government that will allow these things, then fine: the will of the people should be followed. But the will of the people is still secondary to these rights.

IMO, in practice, when these freedoms are protected, the result is what I would call a secular government. However, I'm open to the idea that an Islamic government would protect these things if you want to explain how.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Over the radio? So we can say too that opening the TV on a channel that airs a prayer in congregation live and praying at home with the Muslims on TV is sufficient and it's not necessary to go to a mosque and pray in congregation, TV can solve a lot of problem.
If you claim that broadcasting of the adhan over the radio is sufficient, what's the evidence that back up your claim?

My claim is that the Quran doesn't talk about radios at all. It's you that's claimed that calling the Adhan over the radio isn't sufficient.

Also, I doubt that you could construe the instructions for the Adhan to require a loudspeaker, since mosques got by for more than a millenium before they were invented.

Well Islam is the way to freedom of my society, so...?

Can you explain what you mean when you say "Islam is the way to freedom"?

So again what if the majority of people don't want a secular government but an Islamic one, should the secular government be imposed on them? Should their will be represented? Yes or no?

As I said in my last post, government is limited by the rights of the people. In practice, I think this means that the only legitimate governments are secular, however, as I said, I'm open to being convinced on this point.

Also, I have to take issue with your choice of words. Allowing your neighbour to have the freedom to live his life as he sees fit "imposes" nothing on you. OTOH, demanding that a person's freedom be limited by a religious system he does not believe in most certainly does impose.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Mr Spinkles, why going into a hypothetical situation? What do you think of the example of banning the usage of the loud speakers for Adhan in many Western countries? They think it's harmful and thus it's banned. Here we are talking about a real religious practice that is banned because it "harms" the community.

FWIW, I disagree with the idea of banning loudspeakers for Adhan in any place that allows Christian churches to have bells.

For that matter, I disagree with the idea of banning either one in any place where ice cream trucks are allowed to broadcast their music over loudspeakers. IMO, there should be one standard for all.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, I do. I have that right because I am a member in a society. And if it isn't the case, what is all this fuss about democracy, elections, civil society, human rights...etc?

I totally agree that you have this right. I consider the right for citizens to vote for their elected representatives or to run for office to be fundamental. I just wanted to find out how you justified it, since you seem to be willing to set aside other fundamental rights for others.

You said that you have the right to shape your society because you're "a member in a society". In your view, what other rights come with being a member of a society? What rights come with simply being a person?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

FWIW, I disagree with the idea of banning loudspeakers for Adhan in any place that allows Christian churches to have bells.

For that matter, I disagree with the idea of banning either one in any place where ice cream trucks are allowed to broadcast their music over loudspeakers. IMO, there should be one standard for all.

This is interesting.

I live in a city (Fort Worth, TX) where there is a 24 hour noise ordinance. That is, if I'm taking a nap at 3pm or studying and an ice cream truck or a car stero or a barking dog bothers me, I call the police and they shut it up as if it were a loud party.

I suspect they would do the same for church bells and calls to prayer.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is interesting.

I live in a city (Fort Worth, TX) where there is a 24 hour noise ordinance. That is, if I'm taking a nap at 3pm or studying and an ice cream truck or a car stero or a barking dog bothers me, I call the police and they shut it up as if it were a loud party.

I suspect they would do the same for church bells and calls to prayer.

Hmm. I think that a 24-hour noise ban is a bit extreme, but at least they treat things equally.

Personally, I'm more a fan of the noise bylaws around here: typically, any undesirable noise that's perceived in a residential area is prohibited... but only from 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. In the middle of the day, people are free to make noise. I suppose there's some limit where a loud noise would become such a nuisance that it'd be illegal some other way, but generally, people are free to make noise during the day.

I think that's reasonable... though I suppose I might feel differently if I was a shift worker.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Hmm. I think that a 24-hour noise ban is a bit extreme, but at least they treat things equally.

I absolutely love it, and I've made use of it. The police are on my speed dial.

The best thing about it is I can complain anonymously so the neighbors don't know who is complaining. AND I have to study at all hours of the day and night (from about 6am to 1am), and I work sleep in during these hours also. A loud stero blaring for 5 hours in a row can really cut into anything that I do.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I absolutely love it, and I've made use of it. The police are on my speed dial.

The best thing about it is I can complain anonymously so the neighbors don't know who is complaining. AND I have to study at all hours of the day and night (from about 6am to 1am), and I work sleep in during these hours also. A loud stero blaring for 5 hours in a row can really cut into anything that I do.

There's got to be a balance, though. I wonder how a construction crew would ever finish a rehab job on a residential street if the residents kept siccing the cops on them every time they tried to use a piece of heavy equipment.

While you might like the law now, you might feel differently if you ever decide to put in an in-ground pool and need to hire an excavator.

 

[Draka]

Let's say, hypothetically, that I moved to Saudi because my hubby got a very well paying job there with a big company. I wanted to have my own small business doing what I enjoy. I opened a Tarot Room. Would I be in any danger being that I'm not Muslim? Would I likely have any repercussions upon me?

 

[kai]

There's REALLY a "religious police"?

The world is a freak show.

OH yes The Mutaween
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutaween

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Let's say, hypothetically, that I moved to Saudi because my hubby got a very well paying job there with a big company. I wanted to have my own small business doing what I enjoy. I opened a Tarot Room. Would I be in any danger being that I'm not Muslim? Would I likely have any repercussions upon me?

I would say - don't go.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There's got to be a balance, though. I wonder how a construction crew would ever finish a rehab job on a residential street if the residents kept siccing the cops on them every time they tried to use a piece of heavy equipment.

While you might like the law now, you might feel differently if you ever decide to put in an in-ground pool and need to hire an excavator.

Construction is a bit different. Everyone in my neighborhood is taking turns getting a new roof and it doesn't bother me a bit. I suspect that it doesn't bother anyone else. But if it does, I don't know what the police would do.

I do have friends that lived by a construction site for an oil well -- construction went on 24 hrs a day for three months. No one could sleep, and the police didn't do anything.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Let's say, hypothetically, that I moved to Saudi because my hubby got a very well paying job there with a big company. I wanted to have my own small business doing what I enjoy. I opened a Tarot Room. Would I be in any danger being that I'm not Muslim? Would I likely have any repercussions upon me?

I think private practice of non-islamic religion is allowed in saudi.If it becomes public then ....:no:

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Let's say, hypothetically, that I moved to Saudi because my hubby got a very well paying job there with a big company. I wanted to have my own small business doing what I enjoy. I opened a Tarot Room. Would I be in any danger being that I'm not Muslim? Would I likely have any repercussions upon me?

Absolutely.

Offically, private non-Muslim worship is allowed, but public worship is not. Also, importation of non-Muslim religious materials (e.g. your Tarot cards, probably) is illegal, and non-Muslim clergy are prohibited from entering the country.

On top of all that, if they decided that you were marketing your Tarot business to Muslims, you'd probably be looking at a death sentence.

 

[AxisMundi]

Thank God, I don't rely on yours to define what's humane and what is not.

So stoning a omwan becasue she was raped is humane? Hanging teenagers because they are gay is humane?

Every single person in the country must agree to form a certain government, just great. :areyoucra

That's the trouble with theocracy. Only a select few decide that certain government.