Maybe you can give me an idea of what I experience during my seizure at a church when the practitioners thought I had the holy spirit in them (update from demons, thank god!)
You're still learning from politicians how to be political correct. That will never cease. I learn from God that transitioning is not authorized by the bible or by the spirit of God. What God has made, let not man unmake it.
Because politicians have declared them to be politically correct, which in large measure is why they proliferate so much today, whereas they did not in the past.
You tell me why GD (not that I admit it exists in terms) deserves special attention that people are allowed to mutilate themselves at tax payers' expense.
My point exactly. Psychiatric issues includes gender dysphoria. Why use the bible to judge the morality of the illness and treatment when "theological discussion about such matters (doesn't take into account what we have) today?"
Why? Because on the day of judgement, all the politicians will be dead, and you will be faced with being judged by God. Answering that the politicians said "I'd done nothing wrong" is not going to stand you in good stead with God, if in fact the reason why you became possessed by such a spirit in the first place was because of your own sin and hatred of God.
Good question: it is imperative for modern psychiatrist to stop diagnosing psychiatric issues in many who would under biblical....
So, why does gender dysphoria any different under treatment when psychiatry shouldn't deem any medical condition under biblical laws?
Take away politicians. Medical and psychiatric disorders and treatments have nothing to do with politics.
Still a bit off with evil spirits. Sounds horror film like to me. Are they entities like Casper? A feeling? A seizure? What are evil spirits and what is evil as well?
So you cannot judge psychiatric illnesses like gender dysphoria with biblical theology. They just don't match.
As I said, you can either recognize an evil spirit as an evil spirit, and something to be cast out, in whatever way is suitable, or you can hearken to the politicians who do not recognize spiritual issues and only desire to be re-elected, like the Pharisees, so that all men will think well of them.
We're talking at cross purposes OK. You either are a Christian, and you take the Christian approach, or you don't. It's that simple.
What "exactly" is a demon? Is it a feeling? A seizure (cause of neurons misfiring)? An entity like casper that goes in your body and makes you move all over the place?
Have you experienced it before?
Oh my gosh!
"She was diagnosed with epileptic psychosis (temporal lobe epilepsy) and had a history of psychiatric treatment, which was overall not effective.[1]"
This was the 1970s. This is the 21st century. We (I have right temporal lobe seizures/epilepsy) no longer need spoons under our mouths and no long deem as mentally unstable. Demons?! I thought that was just mythology or something. I didn't know people actually believed this today. Wow.
Temporal lobe deals with some auditory. For example, I have processing issues. So I hear sounds but it takes me awhile to process words. When I was younger, I did hear voices but they weren't like a mental health disorder type of thing. It's the results and symptoms of the brain depending on which area seizures (or uncontrolled neuron activity) is located.
People do get suicidal when they have seizures because we can't control our behavior and loose our memory. So, if someone says we have demons in us or mad, of course we're going to want to jump over the roof.
Unless they're not real christians, most christians I hope know people with seizures aren't demon possessed. I hope. I'd be dead if that were the case. Wow.
You're still learning from politicians how to be political correct. That will never cease. I learn from God that transitioning is not authorized by the bible or by the spirit of God. What God has made, let not man unmake it.
Because politicians have declared them to be politically correct, which in large measure is why they proliferate so much today, whereas they did not in the past.
You tell me why GD (not that I admit it exists in terms) deserves special attention that people are allowed to mutilate themselves at tax payers' expense.
I said why does it deserve special attention? It's a psychiatric disorder no different than epilepsy as a medical disorder.
We do with medication. I'm glad tax payers pay for our expense over these treatments GD and epilepsy etc. My meds cost over $6,000 every three months. So times that by year. I can't imagine how much it is to go through transition. And not all transgender people do.
Why? Because on the day of judgement, all the politicians will be dead, and you will be faced with being judged by God. Answering that the politicians said "I'd done nothing wrong" is not going to stand you in good stead with God, if in fact the reason why you became possessed by such a spirit in the first place was because of your own sin and hatred of God.
As I said, you can either recognize an evil spirit as an evil spirit, and something to be cast out, in whatever way is suitable, or you can hearken to the politicians who do not recognize spiritual issues and only desire to be re-elected, like the Pharisees, so that all men will think well of them.
Depression basically is total body symptoms. It wrecks mind and body. As does anxiety. Myself, I've been detached from life for most of mine, drifting aimlessly, no goals, ambition, or drive. I came to a realization the other day as my dad was watching some TV show with a guy saying "I've always wanted to be...(whatever it was he said after that)." Amd I realized a big problem I'm having now in figuring out a "rest of my life" is because before a few years ago I always wanted to be dead. Now I don't, I'm enjoying life, like being alive, and figuring out things I just never had the desire, energy, or will to consider previously.
What "exactly" is a demon? Is it a feeling? A seizure (cause of neurons misfiring)? An entity like casper that goes in your body and makes you move all over the place?
Have you experienced it before?
Oh my gosh!
"She was diagnosed with epileptic psychosis (temporal lobe epilepsy) and had a history of psychiatric treatment, which was overall not effective.[1]"
This was the 1970s. This is the 21st century. We (I have right temporal lobe seizures/epilepsy) no longer need spoons under our mouths and no long deem as mentally unstable. Demons?! I thought that was just mythology or something. I didn't know people actually believed this today. Wow.
Temporal lobe deals with some auditory. For example, I have processing issues. So I hear sounds but it takes me awhile to process words. When I was younger, I did hear voices but they weren't like a mental health disorder type of thing. It's the results and symptoms of the brain depending on which area seizures (or uncontrolled neuron activity) is located.
People do get suicidal when they have seizures because we can't control our behavior and loose our memory. So, if someone says we have demons in us or mad, of course we're going to want to jump over the roof.
Unless they're not real christians, most christians I hope know people with seizures aren't demon possessed. I hope. I'd be dead if that were the case. Wow.
Yes. Nothing to do with demons though.
Not sure how this relates. I'm still stuck on how seizures=demon possession. I hope I read you wrong??? I hope. I hope.
I said why does it deserve special attention? It's a psychiatric disorder no different than epilepsy as a medical disorder.
We do with medication. I'm glad tax payers pay for our expense over these treatments GD and epilepsy etc. My meds cost over $6,000 every three months. So times that by year. I can't imagine how much it is to go through transition. And not all transgender people do.
Oh. I don't have that judgement over people. I guess the bible judges people like that?
With the god/hate comment, well....
Politicians aside, I'm just shocked you think seizures and evil possession are interrelated.
Are you the only one that knows the christian approach from other christians?
And it's so wonderful we do have far greater understandings of seizures. I can easily understand why people ling ago would have thought it was demonic possession. And the one I had being the scariest thing I've went through though Idont remember it, it's very easy to understand why without this medical knowledge they can be terrifying enough to easily believe it was demonic possession. Even my normally sharp mind was utterly beyond dazed and confused when I regained consciousness.
But it's mind boggling anyone still believes today demons are involved. We can explain seizures so well, we can medicate them, we can help guide people through life in a way that reduces their chances of having one. If that's demonic possession, demons have become so helpless against us Humans it makes me wonder how angels and god would far against our Human Brain (we already did evict God from the sky and Cosmos just as we evicted Satan from the core of the Earth and made him relocate Hell).
And it's so wonderful we do have far greater understandings of seizures. I can easily understand why people ling ago would have thought it was demonic possession. And the one I had being the scariest thing I've went through though Idont remember it, it's very easy to understand why without this medical knowledge they can be terrifying enough to easily believe it was demonic possession. Even my normally sharp mind was utterly beyond dazed and confused when I regained consciousness.
But it's mind boggling anyone still believes today demons are involved. We can explain seizures so well, we can medicate them, we can help guide people through life in a way that reduces their chances of having one. If that's demonic possession, demons have become so helpless against us Humans it makes me wonder how angels and god would far against our Human Brain (we already did evict God from the sky and Cosmos just as we evicted Satan from the core of the Earth and made him relocate Hell).
Exactly. When I had one seizure (of many) that knocked me out the whole day, my brother said I looked like the exorcist. As if my head was going to turn around and spit out green stuff (which in seizures you do have a lot of saliva than the usual spit). I told my mother I wanted her to video tape my seizures since I never seen one at the time and she said I didn't want to know.
Little years later I had brain surgery (right temporal lobectomy). I was hospital-friends with a hospital room neighbor. I guess they let us see each other in the room so we can provoke a seizure for them to record. She had one and that was the first time I saw a gran mal. It must have triggered me cause I went into one too.
All this seems so far ago. I have the shorter seizures since I'm on medication (thank god ). It will be life long. However, balancing the risks and benefits, I'm alive because of them.
As for demons (and holy spirits etc) that just floored me. I hope that's explained to me in detail cause I'm thinking stuff like that in the Amadeus period not the 21st century. The things we learn.
Exactly. When I had one seizure (of many) that knocked me out the whole day, my brother said I looked like the exorcist. As if my head was going to turn around and spit out green stuff (which in seizures you do have a lot of saliva than the usual spit). I told my mother I wanted her to video tape my seizures since I never seen one at the time and she said I didn't want to know.
Little years later I had brain surgery (right temporal lobectomy). I was hospital-friends with a hospital room neighbor. I guess they let us see each other in the room so we can provoke a seizure for them to record. She had one and that was the first time I saw a gran mal. It must have triggered me cause I went into one too.
All this seems so far ago. I have the shorter seizures since I'm on medication (thank god ). It will be life long. However, balancing the risks and benefits, I'm alive because of them.
As for demons (and holy spirits etc) that just floored me. I hope that's explained to me in detail cause I'm thinking stuff like that in the Amadeus period not the 21st century. The things we learn.
What "exactly" is a demon? Is it a feeling? A seizure (cause of neurons misfiring)? An entity like casper that goes in your body and makes you move all over the place?
Yes. I know what I'm talking about. But this was many years ago. First I heard demons. Then I felt they wanted to control me. However I always resisted, and it went away, eventually. So when I say you have to resist demons, I am not speaking about what I do not know about. Demonic control and possession are real things.
"She was diagnosed with epileptic psychosis (temporal lobe epilepsy) and had a history of psychiatric treatment, which was overall not effective.[1]"
This was the 1970s. This is the 21st century. We (I have right temporal lobe seizures/epilepsy) no longer need spoons under our mouths and no long deem as mentally unstable. Demons?! I thought that was just mythology or something. I didn't know people actually believed this today. Wow.
Temporal lobe deals with some auditory. For example, I have processing issues. So I hear sounds but it takes me awhile to process words. When I was younger, I did hear voices but they weren't like a mental health disorder type of thing. It's the results and symptoms of the brain depending on which area seizures (or uncontrolled neuron activity) is located.
People do get suicidal when they have seizures because we can't control our behavior and loose our memory. So, if someone says we have demons in us or mad, of course we're going to want to jump over the roof.
I am only intrested in this subject from a demonology and religious point of view. The power of Jesus' name can cast out demons of all sorts. Even now there are many Christian healers.
Unless they're not real christians, most christians I hope know people with seizures aren't demon possessed. I hope. I'd be dead if that were the case. Wow.
You're just being supercilious. Demons don't have permission from God to kill people, unless those people fail to resist them. They test people and punish people. In the end, God may allow them to kill people, as in commiting suicide or whatever.
Matt 17:14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.”
17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment.
I said why does it deserve special attention? It's a psychiatric disorder no different than epilepsy as a medical disorder.
We do with medication. I'm glad tax payers pay for our expense over these treatments GD and epilepsy etc. My meds cost over $6,000 every three months. So times that by year. I can't imagine how much it is to go through transition. And not all transgender people do.
Oh. I don't have that judgement over people. I guess the bible judges people like that?
Sadly demonic possession comes from disobedience, although commonly disobedience in ignorance. You'll find that the obedient are not troubled by demons, unless it is to keep them from pride, or to test them (as Jesus was tested in the wilderness).
I am only intrested in this subject from a demonology and religious point of view. The power of Jesus' name can cast out demons of all sorts. Even now there are many Christian healers.
You're just being supercilious. Demons don't have permission from God to kill people, unless those people fail to resist them. They test people and punish people. In the end, God may allow them to kill people, as in commiting suicide or whatever.
Sadly demonic possession comes from disobedience, although commonly disobedience in ignorance. You'll find that the obedient are not troubled by demons, unless it is to keep them from pride, or to test them (as Jesus was tested in the wilderness).
Not every person reads the bible. Where are you from? The US is very diverse with people of different religious and moral backgrounds. Since it's not a religious country, we're not legally forced to learn and take in truth of one religion over another.
Had the Tower story been true, we'd see all the world's languages branch out from there. But most languages today come from a few base-roots. Europe itself has two trees, many languages branching out from the ancient proto-Indo-European and some having origins in Uralic.
So you know where languages originated.... No you don't.
Therefore, to look at an existing situation, and claim that you know how it would be, if things happened X way, is ... um... puzzling.
Obviously, all the worlds languages we hear today, could not have sprang from one place.
The Tower of Babel account does not even suggest that, and we know new languages are constantly being forked off of other languages.
So of course, the Tower of Babel account could occur, and other languages spring from existing ones with some of the original changing, and or becoming obsolete.
Now you have set me wondering what your idea of evolution is.
Don't you believe things change over time? Does language?
No. I am not. I am saying--because of differences--many cant survive in the Middle East. Most wouldn't even be able to get there. No koalas, no dingos, no opposums, no polar bears,no penguins.
Like I said, I don't know what you are referring to. I can't agree, if you can't show me that I said what you claimed I said. Even if I quoted a scripture that is in line with scientific discovery that still does not equate to saying the Bible is a science book?
More assumptions on you. We can see evidence of the Big Bang. We can evidence and measure this evidence to know it was billions of years ago.
However, I do not outright reject the possibility of a creator. I just don't assume this entity must be a god of it exist. That seems a rather arbitray and short-sighted conclusion.
Not sure how the Big Bang is related to how the universe formed, the way scientists claimed.
Check out NASA's videos on their website, for the detailed visual story of the formation of our universe.
I thought you knew of these, and accepted the stories.
It's good to know you have not totally rejected the possibility of a creator.
That's typically for quoting a website. I gave you what is basically a massive collection of research. Where would I even begin to quote something?
And, by the way, it's a very quick and easy read and is written for a broad and general audience, is of an average reading level and requires no prior knowledge of gender dysphoria or psychology. And with the sheer amount of research that build it, you probably won't find a better source if majoring in psych and spending years studying the topic of GD isn't a plan of yours. And it covers just about every aspect and facet and question you could think of, and does point out where research is lacking.
I honestly don't mind you giving me research material. I appreciate that. I really do.
The only thing is, I don't think it is helpful to the discussion in the thread.
I think if you have something that's valuable, even insightful, and informative, you would want to share, just a few paragraphs either in response to something said, or to inform a poster.
The poster can then follow the link to read more, if they desire.
That just how I see it.
Anyway, I was really saying that it's easy for someone to say they have an explanation for practically everything, when they really don't, but assume they do.
If it is they really don't have the correct explanation, then it amounts to a guess that is presented as the correct answer.
In such a case, that one assumes the role of the crem della crem, or "the only game in town", but it's a false premise.
Anyway, I was really saying that it's easy for someone to say they have an explanation for practically everything, when they really don't, but assume they do.
If it is they really don't have the correct explanation, then it amounts to a guess that is presented as the correct answer.
In such a case, that one assumes the role of the crem della crem, or "the only game in town", but it's a false premise.
I will refer to something I posted to you earlier, which you have not responded to. FDA: Thousands of Deaths Linked to Puberty Blockers
I'm making an exception here, only this once, because I don't usually repeat anything I posted earlier, which someone doesn't take the time to look at, and respond to, but ask questions that are easily answered in the post (I took time to create)... they don't have time to consider.
So after this one, any questions where the answer can be found in unread, and deserted posts, will be answered by a referral to that post.
Is that a fair and reasonable approach, to you, Artist?
I could pull up several other examples if you like.
Here is another - Antibiotic misuse - Wikipedia
Overuse and overprescribing of antibiotics In Europe, approximately 80% to 90% of antibiotic prescriptions are written by general practitioners. Rates of outpatient prescribing are similar in the United States, and the CDC estimates that at least 30% of outpatient antibiotic prescriptions are unnecessary. Antibiotic overuse and overprescribing in hospitals The CDC estimates that more than 70% of the bacteria responsible the 2 million infections acquired in US hospitals each year are resistant to at least one commonly used antibiotic, and 20% to 50% of antibiotics prescribed in US acute-care hospitals are unnecessary or inappropriate.
I have not read through the following, but thought you might be interested in hearing a doctor.
You may want to think twice before your next visit to the doctor's office. According to Dr. Barbara Starfield's now-famous study, iatrogenic deaths (those resulting from treatment by physicians or surgeons) are the third leading cause of mortality in the United States, resulting in the loss of 225,000 lives per year. Of that total, nosocomial (hospital-acquired) infections kill 80,000, physician errors claim 27,000, and unnecessary surgery results in 12,000 deaths.
But iatrogenic errors aren’t the only reason people should avoid hospitals, says physician and health care administrator Archelle Georgiou. She tells Big Think that relying on doctors may actually shorten your lifespan. More.
That would mean the doctors shouldn't take into account patients feelings and symptoms because they may say one thing but in reality it may be something else?
No. It would mean that doctors do not rely solely on what a patient may think they know.
I mean, why go do the doctor, if you already know what the cause of your problem is?
That's the job of the doctor. If the patient wants to do the doctor's job, they can stay at home, and doctor themselves. Right?
Sometimes we are deceived by feelings. The thing if what the experts say about, say, gender dysphoria has enough symptoms for physical, psychiatric, and lifestyle treatment, who would disregard that patients feelings when considering what is medically (rather than morally-has no place in the office) right for that patients bill of health?
Not sure what you are trying to say here, but the reason you are being offered the recommended 'health care', is because the World Health Organization, and other health agencies, are taking your feelings into consideration, and want you to be comfortable, as they believe that will prevent you "going off the deep end".
As was quoted earlier, "Better a live girl, than a dead boy." and visa versa.
In so doing though, is the "right" and "necessary" treatment being administered?
You'll have to address my earlier post for info on that.
Doctors look at data and listen to people. It seems like you're tossing people to the side for having opinions and deceived feelings and keeping with data. Since we're still learning about depression, if going by data and not opinions and symptoms mental illness symptoms have a array of overlaps.
Feelings, opinions, facts from patients are crucial for diagnosis. Data alone just doesn't work. Any doctor would tell you that.
In general. Yes. If applying to gender dysphoria, I'd say all people who suffer it know their own feelings and facts on the matter. The doctor can help them sort the physical and mental symptoms based on the data they have "and" patients complaints and opinions.
Facts from patients? Facts from patients???
Do you mean like... "Doc, my head hurts." Or "Doc, I need a strong drug for this headache." "Doc, I'm really not a girl." Or "Doc, you need to give me some manhood so that I can really be what I am."
Of course, you can, and should, tell the doctor how you feel, or what you are experiencing, but, the facts are not what you think is necessary.
Some people think they need meth too. Do you think we should give them because that's what they think they need to feel better.(Not being insensitive to your feelings. I'm only reasoning)
Of course treatment varies depending on the person's situation.
Yes. Think about depression. If I go to the doctor and say I'm going to commit suicide and my face looks distorted and I am fat, the doctor isn't going to dismiss these feelings for data. These things are symptoms of an illness. The data was put together in part from patients.
Are you saying with this topic that people with gender dysphoria are having feelings that deceive them from what they should actually feel about their own gender, sex, and body?
I think you first need to explain what you mean when you say data, because I believe we don't have the same thing in mind.
I think you need to address my earlier posts (the ones you haven't got around to), if we are to understand each other. Right now, I don't think you understand what I'm saying.
What data do you have in mind?
Please, give me an example of opinion, because when I think of a patient's opinion, I'm thinking of me going to the doctor and telling them what I think. In other words, "Doc, there is no need to pull out them instruments, because I have ABC, and all I need is XYZ.
No. the doctor is not going to say, 'Okay. I'll write up a prescription, and you can pay at the desk, on your way out." Unless... he is a mock doctor.
The doctor will look at me like..."Why are you here?"
Therefore, to look at an existing situation, and claim that you know how it would be, if things happened X way, is ... um... puzzling.
Obviously, all the worlds languages we hear today, could not have sprang from one place.
The Tower of Babel account does not even suggest that, and we know new languages are constantly being forked off of other languages.
So of course, the Tower of Babel account could occur, and other languages spring from existing ones with some of the original changing, and or becoming obsolete.
Now you have set me wondering what your idea of evolution is.
Don't you believe things change over time? Does language?
No. I don't watch many movies or television shows.
Doesn't matter. Penguins cannot get to the Middle East. Opposums cannot get to the Middle East. They, among others, and not native to the area, have no means of getting there, and cannot survive there.
Yes, evidence. And the Bible gives us the instructions that Noah was given. Going by what god told Noah to build, the ship would not have been sea worthy (that does not mean float - the Ark cpuld have floated. It wouldn't have survived the storm).
I honestly don't mind you giving me research material. I appreciate that. I really do.
The only thing is, I don't think it is helpful to the discussion in the thread.
I think if you have something that's valuable, even insightful, and informative, you would want to share, just a few paragraphs either in response to something said, or to inform a poster.
The poster can then follow the link to read more, if they desire.
That just how I see it.
That source covers much of what has been discussed and some that hasn't. It's not like a news website where theres a few paragraphs to find out quote to support your point. I'd basically have to quote it many times over the course of several posts. It was really better just to make a post saying its a great source of information.
Yes, evidence. And the Bible gives us the instructions that Noah was given. Going by what god told Noah to build, the ship would not have been sea worthy (that does not mean float - the Ark cpuld have floated. It wouldn't have survived the storm).
A scientist is a fully formed human life and body who can think.
He takes a cell off a human, studies it by machine, for when he naturally looks at another human, all you see is the whole and natural self, as that human.
Totally manifested, was a spiritual teaching, do not think of life as a design.
But you do. You take the cell of the human, human owned DNA only in the living life presence of that human whole body and say this is your design. The human then says, yes I am the Designer of it.
That form of conscious expression is what every human self quotes. I am the designer of my own life/body by my owned DNA.
Claim human DNA before it existed, is a dead human in real life.
For human DNA never pre existed it is only owned manifest in one moment of its whole life self body presence, with a scientist mind falsifying information by their egotism.
When every body of your science quote, exists and is natural, then it is existing in some form, is natural in that form and does not need your human egotism.
Yet you have for a long time in egotism and group coercion expressed that human egotism, whilst life continually gets destroyed by science who says I know and own the design for human life. Really scientist!
It is this exact mentality today in science that has all life destroyed on planet Earth.
). It will be life long. However, balancing the risks and benefits, I'm alive because of them.
What's with this counterargument obsession Artist? 
