Mandatory Vaccinations?

[SkepticThinker]

Yes. I looked up a couple months ago.

Then in that light, some of your posts are quite perplexing to me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then in that light, some of your posts are quite perplexing to me.

How so?

I keep getting the feeling providing and asking about my knowledge will change my mind once I research it.

I'm not following your line of thinking?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

They actually do.
The more the virus travels around from person to person, the more variants are going to pop up.
That's just a fact.
The Delta variant just ravaged India and is now ravaging the US, where vaccination rates have plateaued. And who is getting infected? The unvaccinated.
And eventually, if enough people don't get vaccinated, we might get stuck with a variant that can beat our vaccines.
And then what? Back to square one again? We're stuck with COVID forever? No thank you.

I don't know why you're fixated on this "hot spot" thing. This a global pandemic, and I think we should have all learned by now that you can't hide from COVID.

I guess another way to put it is scientifically they do "and" that doesn't mean they will-we just don't know unless they are affected. There are higher risks in some areas than others "and" there are risks just the same.

I can't figure how to phrase it. I'm not saying they do not as a fact. I'm saying that that fact is more prevalent one some places than others.

Hot spot meaning there are more cases and deaths in a specific area than other areas. While we are all at risk, some areas are more so than others. Treating every area around the globe at the same risk wouldn't be ideal.

Sorry, I don't understand your question.

I'd have to think of how to rephrase it.

I'll just say that every single unvaccinated person in my life as of today, are all wildly misinformed. One if them is a huge conspiracy theory follower who thinks the New World Order is trying to kill us all with vaccines and 5G.

Every single?

How did you come to this conclusion?

I don't understand how just being unvaccinated means they are misinformed.... just because they made a decision thousands of vaccinated disagree with doesn't mean they made the wrong decision. I'd say that's trying to justify why people make "bad" decisions rather than accepting they made a decision vaccinated just don't agree with.

Not all unvaccinated people believe in conspiracy theories.... how did you come to that conclusion just from not being vaccinated and no other factors?

I guess I don't understand why massive worldwide deaths doesn't concern you enough to want to do something to stop it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what you said?
I don't get it. And it's actually disconcerting to me.

I've never really thought too much about people dying all around the world unless, maybe, I decided to denote to people overseas or something like that. If I vaccinated I'd be potentially helping those in my immediate area not people overseas. If I thought about thousands of people dying from thousands of illnesses all over the world, I'd be physiologically and mentally overwhelmed by people's sufferings.

It's just that you don't seem to be absorbing some of it because I've seen you repeat yourself as well.

You know, if I'm ignorant about a subject, I'm more than happy to have someone inform or educate me so that I can learn and correct my views so that they better match reality.
Ignorant doesn't mean stupid.

But if you believed I was absorbing it, does that mean it would magically change my mind?

But that's an assumption, though. Even if I were not ignorant (from your criteria) how does this information force me to make decisions I may or may not want to take?

Unvaccinated people may be very educated in the correct information and still choose to not vaccinate. So, I'm not seeing how what you're saying makes logical sense just personal opinion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If I understand the data collection timeline correctly, the 300 hospitalizations were as of June 23rd; I'm not sure that 20 million doses of mRNA vaccines against C.O.V.I.D-19 were administered by that time. Keep in mind 2 doses of mRNA vaccines are needed to fully vaccinate one person, also please also keep in mind these few hundred hospitalizations were of predominately young adult men. I presume, half the ten million or five million would consist of males belonging to this age group having been fully vaccinated. .So then, 300 men ages 18 to 29 being hospitalized from heart inflammation by being mRNA vaccinated out of 5 million men ages 18 to 29 having been vaccinated would equal a one out of a 16,667 chance ( 0.006 percent chance ) of MRNA vaccinated young men ages 18 to 29 being hospitalized due to heart inflammation caused by the mRNA vaccine.

Per CDC data, the infection fatality rate of somebody age 18 to 29 dying from C.O.V.I.D.-19 is about one out of 20,000, or (0.005 percent chance).

I figure a male age 18 to 29 has a comparable chance of being hospitalized due to heart inflammation by being mRNA vaccinated against C.O.V.I.D.-19 as he has of dying by contracting the SARS-Cov2 virus.

Cool, so, you didn't actually check my source and catch my error.
There are at least 20,000,000 in that group with at least the first shot, and also at least 20,000,000 with both doses.
So, awesome. You built an counter based on an error. Along with assuming half of the recipients are male. Because had you checked the data I provided more females than males are in both of the "at least one dose" and "fully vaccinated" groups.
Cool.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don't have to trust 100% everything 100% of the time but to trust a reasonable amount when reasonable. Vaccines have an incredible track record. Probably one of the best out of anything one can take as an example from the medical field.

We have the anti-vaxxers to thank for the very thoroughness and mountain range of studies that have looked into health risks of vaccines, especially autism.
The anti-vaxxers have always been wrong, they are still wrong, and they believe opinions and a discredited and disgraced shrink who had his article retracted and isn't allowed to practice over this farce (this "discovery" was a child was at a birthday party of an autistic child, and there is was observed all these autistic children--at the birthday party of an autistic child--all had their childhood vaccines and with the high rate of autism in that one group of people who where not randomly selected demonstrates those vaccines cause autism).

 

[metis]

It would be puzzling if one did not recognize the vast anti-science sentiment in this country. As far as I'm concerned, that starts with religious indoctrination.

Yep.

Canada was once way behind us with the vaccine it not only have they caught up but have passed us. Why? One big reason is that Canadians in general are not that much into right-wing wacko "news", like the Fox Propaganda Channel, nor is religious fundamentalism that popular.

BTW, the border is reopening August 9th, and we spend a lot if time there since it's only a 20 minute drive, so we'll meet ya there.

Children who are taught believe Adam & Eve have an immediate distrust of science.

Another "yep" as I grew up in such a denomination-- or at least I tried to grow up-- the verdict is not yet in.

This also leads to gullibility in other areas. Millions believed Trump would magically erect an impenetrable wall and Mexico would pay for it. Coal miners believed Trump would magically restore their jobs. Millions believe Clinton was/is running a child pedophile ring out of a pizza parlor basement. Then QAnon came along to really fuel the fires. And finally Trump and the Big Lie.

This is really snarky, I'll admit, but I think to be a loyal Republican nowadays one has to pretty much be dumb as a brick and/or have a fascist orientation.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm not sure why unvaccinated=antivaxxer. Usually when you're anti anything you're against the topic or opinion proposed. If an unvaccinated person agrees on facts without conspiracy theories, and does not discourage other to vaccinate, what makes this person (Any unvaccinated person) an anti-vaxxer?

What's the logic in the connection between unvaccinated=antivaxxer?

Setting aside biased influences.

 

[ecco]

as if decisions about health only depend on general factors and stats from experts who don't know me.

How are you different from to 650,000 who died?
How are you different from the 34,000,000 who got infected?

You aren't. You can get it just like they got it. Most people in this country who got infected since June 1st thought they didn't need to get vaccinated, so they didn't.

 

[ecco]

My observation it seems you're not very tolerant to people you don't agree with.

Aty this point I'm not very tolerant of people who make excuses to not get vaccinated and thereby prolong this pandemic longer than it needs to be. Everyone in this country could be vaccinated by now.

I have no respect for those who aren't.

Some people cannot get vaccinated due to immune disorders. The rest who are unvaccinated (you) are putting those people at risk.

What's the logic in the connection between unvaccinated=antivaxxer

You and others who refuse to get vaccinated cannot present a valid reason for not getting vaccinated (exceptions as above). Therefore, the only logical connection is that you and they are anti-vaxxers.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How are you different from to 650,000 who died?
How are you different from the 34,000,000 who got infected?

You aren't. You can get it just like they got it. Most people in this country who got infected since June 1st thought they didn't need to get vaccinated, so they didn't.

Who said I could not?

We are all at A risk.

Depends on their situation-example, like location.

Wyoming coronavirus cases and deaths
Wyoming deaths: 760

New York coronavirus cases and deaths
New York deaths: 53,359

My state so far has 11,477 deaths to this date.

We are still at A risk, but it really depends on the state and local.

My area so far has 0 reported cases and 0 reported deaths so far this date. Just depends on where you at, what you do, who you come around, stuff like that. Everyone is at risk of getting COVID and so forth. I choose not to worry myself sick over it unless I have a high reason to.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Aty this point I'm not very tolerant of people who make excuses to not get vaccinated and thereby prolong this pandemic longer than it needs to be. Everyone in this country could be vaccinated by now.

I have no respect for those who aren't.

Some people cannot get vaccinated due to immune disorders. The rest who are unvaccinated (you) are putting those people at risk.

If you don't agree with the justifications, that's on you. I have no issues with you taking the vaccine or not.

There ya go. Why talk with people you disrespect?

You know they have the ability to put people in danger, but you don't know that others are in danger unless you know who has COVID and who does not.

I mean, for me, I'd be a bit annoyed if someone had COVID and still interacting with others. I wouldn't because someone thousands of miles away from me decides not to vaccinate.

You and others who refuse to get vaccinated cannot present a valid reason for not getting vaccinated (exceptions as above). Therefore, the only logical connection is that you and they are anti-vaxxers.

That you accept.

"Anti-"vaxxers are those against the vaccine not those who choose not to be vaccinated. I think so far I know there's only one anti-vaxxer on RF. Everyone else seems to don't care unless it's brought up and they share their non-emotional opinions about it.

You would only be right (as a fact) if I was against COVID vaccination (rather). Right now it's just your personal opinion.

What is the logic between unvaccinated=antivaxxer???
Without the logical fallacy: the more emotionalism (and shock display numbers/pictures/etc) someone has proves validity of a claim.

 

[ecco]

Just to add, excepting those who can't get vaccinated for medical reasons and children under twelve, anyone in this country who is unvaccinated is disgustingly selfish.

They now are the ones getting COVID. They now are the ones who become incubators for viral mutations. They now continue to stress our healthcare system and our healthcare workers. They now are responsible for prolonging and exacerbating the problem.

Perhaps we need to make being vaccinated a requirement for voting. If people are too ignorant and too uncaring to get vaccinated, they are too ignorant and too uncaring to be allowed to vote.

 

[ecco]

I mean, for me, I'd be a bit annoyed if someone had COVID and still interacting with others.

You really are showing your ignorance of this disease. Or any viral disease for that matter. On what do you base your contention that an infected person immediately knows he is infected? Do you think that they immediately start slobbering or their eyes turn a bright red so that you can spot them?

Are you ignorant of the fact that multiple people in families get infected? Do you think one goes to the grocery store, gets infected, and calls home: "Honey, I have to go straight to the hospital because I got the COVID". No, they go home and affect other family members, who go out and infect other people.



LEARN.

Common question
How long does it take for COVID-19 symptoms to start showing?

Symptoms may appear 2-14 days after exposure to the virus.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You really are showing your ignorance of this disease. Or any viral disease for that matter. On what do you base your contention that an infected person immediately knows he is infected? Do you think that they immediately start slobbering or their eyes turn a bright red so that you can spot them?

Edit.
I never said a person would know.

No.

Are you ignorant of the fact that multiple people in families get infected? Do you think one goes to the grocery store, gets infected, and calls home: "Honey, I have to go straight to the hospital because I got the COVID". No, they go home and affect other family members, who go out and infect other people.

No.

Could be.
Everyone is at a risk.

 

[Kooky]

If one side's argument can be boiled down to "but I don't wanna and you can't make me" then I think that is pretty much signalling the end of any form of productive discussion, if such a thing ever happened in this thread in the first place.

 

[Suave]

You are entitled to your opinion.

Meanwhile, the case rate and the death rate are on the increase in a country where everyone could have been vaccinated by now.

I would agree that almost the entire U.S. adult population should have been fully vaccinated by now. I recently mentioned in another thread, "I'm mRNA vaccinated against C.O.V.I.D-19, because I don't want to take any chance of me once again spreading this horrible disease to people around me who are not very well immune from C.O.V.I.D.-19. My ex-wife and 82 year old father fell quite ill to being infected; fortunately, both were able to recover without hospitalization. My 75 year old mother almost died from C.O.V.I.D.-19. She was hospitalized for five days. She still has problems breathing, I suspect her lungs got severely scarred. My ex-wife blames me for giving her C.O.V.I.D-19 when I was removing all my belongings out of our house. I didn't mean to get her sick, I did not even know I was infected"

I'd like to urge anybody who has not already been vaccinated, please do so. I don't want anybody else having to live through the guilt of causing any of his/her loved ones to get sick by spreading this horrible disease to them.

 

[Wandering Monk]

My former boss got infected, not severely, but seven months later his food still tastes like tin.

 

[fantome profane]

Experts know this that's why they look at different factors like age, ethnicity, etc to decent who is at higher risk.

These certainly are factors. But there is one factor that absolutely dwarfs these in discerning whether or not a person is at risk of dying from COVID 19.

That is whether of not you are vaccinated.

 

[SkepticThinker]

How so?

I keep getting the feeling providing and asking about my knowledge will change my mind once I research it.

I'm not following your line of thinking?

Herd immunity protects the most amount of people from contracting the virus (including those who can't get vaccinated for health reasons) and it also helps us shut down the virus, by cutting off it's access to available hosts.
If we don't reach herd immunity, that means that COVID will continue to be transmitted and reproduced, which inevitably leads to new variants which can be much harder to get a grip on, like the Delta variant that is currently sweeping across the US. Which means that we may never rid ourselves of COVID and it will just continue to circulate and mutate, causing more deaths than necessary.
At this point, we have the potential ability to stop COVID in its tracks, but that's never going to happen if we can't reach herd immunity.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I guess another way to put it is scientifically they do "and" that doesn't mean they will-we just don't know unless they are affected. There are higher risks in some areas than others "and" there are risks just the same.

I can't figure how to phrase it. I'm not saying they do not as a fact. I'm saying that that fact is more prevalent one some places than others.

Hot spot meaning there are more cases and deaths in a specific area than other areas. While we are all at risk, some areas are more so than others. Treating every area around the globe at the same risk wouldn't be ideal.

I don't find this to be all that relevant to the discussion.
COVID is everywhere.
We live in a global community where we're all connected.

I'd have to think of how to rephrase it.

Okay.

Every single?

Yes, every single one.
There are only about four of them, thankfully.

How did you come to this conclusion?

From conversing with them.

I don't understand how just being unvaccinated means they are misinformed....

I didn't say that.

I said they are uninformed. I didn't say they're uninformed simply because they're unvaccinated. They're uninformed because they don't know how to vet their sources.

just because they made a decision thousands of vaccinated disagree with doesn't mean they made the wrong decision. I'd say that's trying to justify why people make "bad" decisions rather than accepting they made a decision vaccinated just don't agree with.

You're arguing against something I didn't say.

Not all unvaccinated people believe in conspiracy theories.... how did you come to that conclusion just from not being vaccinated and no other factors?

I converse with them.

I've never really thought too much about people dying all around the world unless, maybe, I decided to denote to people overseas or something like that. If I vaccinated I'd be potentially helping those in my immediate area not people overseas. If I thought about thousands of people dying from thousands of illnesses all over the world, I'd be physiologically and mentally overwhelmed by people's sufferings.

I don't understand this point of view at all.

Why aren't you concerned about a global pandemic that has killed over four million people?

When you vaccinate, you are helping those people overseas. And you're helping people in your own country. And you're helping people in your own region. And you're helping people in your direct vicinity. And you're helping members of your family whom I hope you do care about, at least.

But if you believed I was absorbing it, does that mean it would magically change my mind?

I don't think anything "magically" changes peoples' minds.
I expect that peoples' minds will be changed by good evidence and reason and logic.

But that's an assumption, though. Even if I were not ignorant (from your criteria) how does this information force me to make decisions I may or may not want to take?

Knowledge beats ignorance every day of the week. A person arguing from a position of ignorance, is by definition, uninformed or ill-informed.

Unvaccinated people may be very educated in the correct information and still choose to not vaccinate. So, I'm not seeing how what you're saying makes logical sense just personal opinion.

They may be, but they usually aren't.