Mandatory Vaccinations?

[Wandering Monk]

Herd immunity protects the most amount of people from contracting the virus (including those who can't get vaccinated for health reasons) and it also helps us shut down the virus, by cutting off it's access to available hosts.
If we don't reach herd immunity, that means that COVID will continue to be transmitted and reproduced, which inevitably leads to new variants which can be much harder to get a grip on, like the Delta variant that is currently sweeping across the US. Which means that we may never rid ourselves of COVID and it will just continue to circulate and mutate, causing more deaths than necessary.
At this point, we have the potential ability to stop COVID in its tracks, but that's never going to happen if we can't reach herd immunity.

We can only stop Covid if the world reaches herd immunity. We are a long way from that. As long as it circulates anywhere, there is the likelihood of other mutations that will keep it going, as you have pointed out on several occasions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Aty this point I'm not very tolerant of people who make excuses to not get vaccinated and thereby prolong this pandemic longer than it needs to be. Everyone in this country could be vaccinated by now.

I have no respect for those who aren't.

Some people cannot get vaccinated due to immune disorders. The rest who are unvaccinated (you) are putting those people at risk.




You and others who refuse to get vaccinated cannot present a valid reason for not getting vaccinated (exceptions as above). Therefore, the only logical connection is that you and they are anti-vaxxers.

That exactly. It isn't about "I," it isn't about "me." It is about us, and with people refusing to get vaccinated it hurts us all.
And yes, there are no good reasons at this point. The drug isn't experimental, the risk of side effects are lower than the risk of chronic illness and death with covid, people think they'll be ok but they just aren't, and people who aren't masking, distancing, and getting vaccinated are giving covid more chances to mutate into something worse. And it's done that a few times already.
They are the sort who would rather sink a ship than even slightly inconvenience themselves.

 

[ecco]

I mean, for me, I'd be a bit annoyed if someone had COVID and still interacting with others.

I never said a person would know.

Then who were you referring to in the top quote? Why would you be annoyed with an infected person if she didn't know she was infected?

ETA: Please read and try to understand post #656 from @Suave.

Could be.
Everyone is at a risk.

Yes, everyone is at risk until the pandemic is over. Some of us, the vaccinated ones, are at much less risk than the people still making excuses to stay vulnerable.

 

[SomeRandom]

Herd immunity protects the most amount of people from contracting the virus (including those who can't get vaccinated for health reasons) and it also helps us shut down the virus, by cutting off it's access to available hosts.
If we don't reach herd immunity, that means that COVID will continue to be transmitted and reproduced, which inevitably leads to new variants which can be much harder to get a grip on, like the Delta variant that is currently sweeping across the US. Which means that we may never rid ourselves of COVID and it will just continue to circulate and mutate, causing more deaths than necessary.
At this point, we have the potential ability to stop COVID in its tracks, but that's never going to happen if we can't reach herd immunity.

Bro. The delta strain has reached us. Or at least southern parts of the country for now. I’m starting to get anxious at the utterly slow rate of vaccination now (more the governments fault than anyone else’s.) Side affects of the vaccine be damned. I mean half the country is in severe levels of lockdown. Luckily my state is just on mask mandates and tracking for now.
I just want herd immunity up so we can start to actually recover.
I used to be angered at the anti vaxx movement more so for putting highly vulnerable people at risk. And for basically allowing once beaten diseases to make a comeback (measles, chickenpox, polio etc.)
I think this pandemic has only strengthened my anger at them.

 

[Jose Fly]

I used to be angered at the anti vaxx movement more so for putting highly vulnerable people at risk. And for basically allowing once beaten diseases to make a comeback (measles, chickenpox, polio etc.)
I think this pandemic has only strengthened my anger at them.

I'm right there with ya' bud. When I read the stories about unvaccinated people being in the hospital with COVID and even dying from it, I have zero sympathy for them. I don't even consider wishing them well or devoting a single shred of energy towards hoping for them to recover. From my POV, they're no different than people who swim in alligator infested waters even though there are warning signs. When they get attacked by an alligator, I just shrug and think "Well WTF did you think was going to happen?"....and then I move on.

The only difference with COVID is that it's even worse, as many have already noted (the unvaccinated are serving as petri dishes for the evolution of new strains).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then who were you referring to in the top quote? Why would you be annoyed with an infected person if she didn't know she was infected?

ETA: Please read and try to understand post #656 from @Suave.

I read it yesterday too. I like @Suave attitude about it. He/she is vaccinated and still look at the critical sides of vaccines while maintaining it's effiency.

Yes, everyone is at risk until the pandemic is over. Some of us, the vaccinated ones, are at much less risk than the people still making excuses to stay vulnerable.

If telling unvaccinated they are making excuses helps you feel better, then so be. Everyone needs to justify actions they don't understand or have ill feelings about. Guess it's a self soothing technique.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Herd immunity protects the most amount of people from contracting the virus (including those who can't get vaccinated for health reasons) and it also helps us shut down the virus, by cutting off it's access to available hosts.
If we don't reach herd immunity, that means that COVID will continue to be transmitted and reproduced, which inevitably leads to new variants which can be much harder to get a grip on, like the Delta variant that is currently sweeping across the US. Which means that we may never rid ourselves of COVID and it will just continue to circulate and mutate, causing more deaths than necessary.
At this point, we have the potential ability to stop COVID in its tracks, but that's never going to happen if we can't reach herd immunity.

Okay. I get that. I rather decide if I do from my own morals and facts involved. Peer pressure via facts I can look up myself is counterproductive.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm right there with ya' bud. When I read the stories about unvaccinated people being in the hospital with COVID and even dying from it, I have zero sympathy for them. I don't even consider wishing them well or devoting a single shred of energy towards hoping for them to recover. From my POV, they're no different than people who swim in alligator infested waters even though there are warning signs. When they get attacked by an alligator, I just shrug and think "Well WTF did you think was going to happen?"....and then I move on.

The only difference with COVID is that it's even worse, as many have already noted (the unvaccinated are serving as petri dishes for the evolution of new strains).

Wow. That is strong. I can’t say that I blame you for your reaction. I’m not entirely there myself, after all, the unvaccinated in question might have had a legitimate exemption (on chemo or had an immune issue for example.) But I certainly understand the sentiment. I mean the movement itself is repulsive. But imo they prey on the uneducated, manipulating and feeding into their fears. So I still have a shred of empathy whenever I hear such a story. Perhaps more so for the unvaccinated loved ones. But still.

Though the potential for newer and even harsher strains than even the Delta one is certainly on my mind. What if my country’s rollout isn’t fast enough and we have to restart it? Is one of the many questions on my mind lately

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From conversing with them.

I'll get back.

You know every single unvaccinated person's decision and intention by talking to a few?

That's a logical fallacy. How did you come to the conclusion keeping in mind unvaccinated doesn't mean ignorant (imo).

 

[Jose Fly]

Wow. That is strong. I can’t say that I blame you for your reaction. I’m not entirely there myself, after all, the unvaccinated in question might have had a legitimate exemption (on chemo or had an immune issue for example.)

To be clear, I'm only talking about people who could get the vaccine but choose not to. People who can't are a whole different scenario.

But I certainly understand the sentiment. I mean the movement itself is repulsive. But imo they prey on the uneducated, manipulating and feeding into their fears. So I still have a shred of empathy whenever I hear such a story. Perhaps more so for the unvaccinated loved ones. But still.

I dunno....it's not like they don't also have access to legitimate sources of info. Like the alligator pond example, the signs are all up and visible. That they choose to listen to the guy telling them alligators are a hoax is their choice, and choices have consequences.

I'm not rooting for them to die or get sick, but I'm not rooting for them not to either. I just don't care what happens to them. They made their decision, so they get to deal with what comes next.

Though the potential for newer and even harsher strains than even the Delta one is certainly on my mind. What if my country’s rollout isn’t fast enough and we have to restart it? Is one of the many questions on my mind lately

I hear ya. We're in no way out of the woods yet, and all it would take is for a very nasty strain to arise and we'll be right back to where we started.....lockdowns, mask mandates, overwhelmed hospitals, thousands of deaths every day....

 

[SomeRandom]

To be clear, I'm only talking about people who could get the vaccine but choose not to. People who can't are a whole different scenario.

Oh ok. Fair enough then

I dunno....it's not like they don't also have access to legitimate sources of info. Like the alligator pond example, the signs are all up and visible. That they choose to listen to the guy telling them alligators are a hoax is their choice, and choices have consequences.

Whilst I agree. The downside of our age is that misinformation can spread even faster than before. I think there is potentially a sense of embarrassment and stubbornness that can hold a person back when it comes to something like this. No one likes to admit they got conned. And one’s pride can be a hard pill to swallow. Causing stubbornness and perhaps even a small sense of denial. Which may impact decisions and potentially conversation.
But I take your point.

I'm not rooting for them to die or get sick, but I'm not rooting for them not to either. I just don't care what happens to them. They made their decision, so they get to deal with what comes next.

Yeah. I have to agree with you there. Actions have consequences and all that jazz

I hear ya. We're in no way out of the woods yet, and all it would take is for a very nasty strain to arise and we'll be right back to where we started.....lockdowns, mask mandates, overwhelmed hospitals, thousands of deaths every day....

Exactly! I’m patiently waiting my turn. Of course those more vulnerable than myself should go ahead of me in the queue. I have no issue with that. But I’ll admit to getting more and more anxious as the Delta strain ravages my neighbouring states.

 

[Jose Fly]

Whilst I agree. The downside of our age is that misinformation can spread even faster than before. I think there is potentially a sense of embarrassment and stubbornness that can hold a person back when it comes to something like this. No one likes to admit they got conned. And one’s pride can be a hard pill to swallow. Causing stubbornness and perhaps even a small sense of denial. Which may impact decisions and potentially conversation.
But I take your point.

There's a term for people holding on to bad decisions out of fear of admitting they'd made a bad decision, but I can't recall what it is at the moment.

But everyone I know who's decided to not get vaccinated had full access to valid information, just like I did. In fact, many of them are aware of the info, they just reject it. To that I say, okay fine....go jump in the alligator pond and see what happens.

Yeah. I have to agree with you there. Actions have consequences and all that jazz

Funny thing....that's what our COVID-denying neighbors say to us. They're sure that we'll all end up sterile or worse.

Exactly! I’m patiently waiting my turn. Of course those more vulnerable than myself should go ahead of me in the queue. I have no issue with that. But I’ll admit to getting more and more anxious as the Delta strain ravages my neighbouring states.

That's very magnanimous of you. Good luck!

 

[SomeRandom]

There's a term for people holding on to bad decisions out of fear of admitting they'd made a bad decision, but I can't recall what it is at the moment.

Hmm. Regret? Lol

But everyone I know who's decided to not get vaccinated had full access to valid information, just like I did. In fact, many of them are aware of the info, they just reject it. To that I say, okay fine....go jump in the alligator pond and see what happens.

Oh. Well in that case I have to agree with you.

Funny thing....that's what our COVID-denying neighbors say to us. They're sure that we'll all end up sterile or worse.

Honestly I’d rather be sterile than dead

Even young people are having long term ill effects of COVID which I would rather avoid. Even if I get muscle soreness, headaches and tired for a few days (common side effects for the second Pfizer shot.)
Which just sound like the side effects of the flu vaccine to me. So I don’t understand the hesitancy. I can almost kind of understand the hesitancy with the blood clot issue, even though I know it’s rare. I mean that’s enough to at least give me pause. Not enough to not get it, mind you. But pause nonetheless. Though my age group is getting Pfizer anyway so

That's very magnanimous of you. Good luck!

Aww thanks. I’m used to “waiting my turn” I guess. It’s rather expected over here.

 

[Jose Fly]

Hmm. Regret? Lol

Lol....it was some clinical term. I wish I could remember.....sucks gettin' old.

Honestly I’d rather be sterile than dead

Even young people are having long term ill effects of COVID which I would rather avoid. Even if I get muscle soreness, headaches and tired for a few days (common side effects for the second Pfizer shot.)
Which just sound like the side effects of the flu vaccine to me. So I don’t understand the hesitancy. I can almost kind of understand the hesitancy with the blood clot issue, even though I know it’s rare. I mean that’s enough to at least give me pause. Not enough to not get it, mind you. But pause nonetheless. Though my age group is getting Pfizer anyway so

They both ended up getting COVID, but neither had to go to the hospital. My wife, who is obviously much more empathetic, helped them out with their chickens.

And yeah, I got the aches and chills after getting my shot, which was unusual for me. I get the flu shot every year and I've never had anything like that. But it lasted for less than 24 hours and that was it. And I got the J&J vaccine, three days before they implemented the "pause". After looking at the data however, I wasn't at all worried. The only thing I'm thinking about now is whether I'll need a booster later.

Aww thanks. I’m used to “waiting my turn” I guess. It’s rather expected over here.

Sounds nice. Over here, we had all sorts of reports of rich healthy people cutting in line when the vaccines first came out. USA! USA!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't find this to be all that relevant to the discussion.
COVID is everywhere.
We live in a global community where we're all connected.

I must have weirdly replied to someone else.

From these threads people repeat facts-numbers, efficiency of vaccines, pictures, and so forth. I don't know what they are supposed to do in and of itself.

Okay

You can disregard.

Yes, every single one.
There are only about four of them, thankfully.

From conversing with them.

How does the uninformed you have spoken to reflect the decisions and intentions of the unvaccinated all around the world?

Logically, how does being unvaccinated mean one is ignorant or misinformed?

We can have our opinions of what others "think" they mean or know but not all opinions are facts.

I didn't say that.

I said they are uninformed. I didn't say they're uninformed simply because they're unvaccinated. They're uninformed because they don't know how to vet their sources.

And those that do and are unvaccinated?

You're arguing against something I didn't say.

I converse with them.

I don't understand this point of view at all.

Why aren't you concerned about a global pandemic that has killed over four million people?

When you vaccinate, you are helping those people overseas. And you're helping people in your own country. And you're helping people in your own region. And you're helping people in your direct vicinity. And you're helping members of your family whom I hope you do care about, at least.

Since so many people die all around the world I never put too much thought into people in an empathic way since in doing so-sharing in others suffering-it would get me sick.

How so? I'd only be helping those who are around me if I were vaccinated. People who aren't physically around me cannot catch COVID if I have it, so the idea of helping people from across the world would make sense to those who are always in contact with people to build that herd immunity. If I just stayed at home all day and night the helping people around the world would be, well, a nice goal but not something that applies to me (in this example).

This isn't my particular situation, but it's like telling someone who lives in solitude (say a loner in the woods) that without getting vaccinated he would put millions of people in danger. While the "idea" of potentially spreading a disease if one has it is problemsome but how does it apply to the minority who have a less chance of catching it if any?

I don't think anything "magically" changes peoples' minds.

I expect that peoples' minds will be changed by good evidence and reason and logic.

But your good evidence, reason, and logic isn't universal and people who read the same information (mind you, from all around the world) will come to different conclusions. Some get the vaccine out of fear... some are unvaccinated out of fear. Some don't research but just jump the gun and vaccinate... others don't research and decide not to vaccinate.

We just don't know how people came to their decisions but someone unvaccinated alone doesn't determine who based their decision on logic and who did not.

Knowledge beats ignorance every day of the week. A person arguing from a position of ignorance, is by definition, uninformed or ill-informed.

Both unvaccinated and vaccinated could be ignorant even with the facts... some out of fear and others maybe peer pressure or so have you. The victims fall on both sides. We just don't know every vaccinated person made a "smart" decision and we don't know every unvaccinated person made an "uninformed" decision.

I don't believe it is reasonable nor logical to say unvaccinated are uninformed. You'd have to make a direct connection between their decision to not vaccinated and how much they know.

I mean you can make a sound and rational decision that you feel conflicts the well-being of others without their needing to be uninformed (or ignorant or so have you), right?

Can people have the responsibility of making their own decisions without needing to justify it?

They may be, but they usually aren't.

How do you know?

There are unvaccinated people all over the world.

 

[SomeRandom]

Lol....it was some clinical term. I wish I could remember.....sucks gettin' old.

Lol. I’m sure it will come to you

They both ended up getting COVID, but neither had to go to the hospital. My wife, who is obviously much more empathetic, helped them out with their chickens.

Oh damn! Did they survive?

And yeah, I got the aches and chills after getting my shot, which was unusual for me. I get the flu shot every year and I've never had anything like that. But it lasted for less than 24 hours and that was it. And I got the J&J vaccine, three days before they implemented the "pause". After looking at the data however, I wasn't at all worried. The only thing I'm thinking about now is whether I'll need a booster later.

Sorry which one is the J&J one? In Aus we have the AstraZeneca, Pfizer and I think some moderna stock for “boosters.”

Sounds nice. Over here, we had all sorts of reports of rich healthy people cutting in line when the vaccines first came out. USA! USA!

Oh that’s awful. We have people “cut in line” in the sense that if they’re on private they can sort of jump the queue in terms of medication. Sometimes waiting times in hospitals (barring emergencies.)
But the way it’s structured, there are only certain people eligible in certain stages of the vaccine rollout. That’s regardless of income. Though people have been waiting outside doctors offices and getting the “left overs” after hours. If that makes sense?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Bro. The delta strain has reached us. Or at least southern parts of the country for now. I’m starting to get anxious at the utterly slow rate of vaccination now (more the governments fault than anyone else’s.) Side affects of the vaccine be damned. I mean half the country is in severe levels of lockdown. Luckily my state is just on mask mandates and tracking for now.
I just want herd immunity up so we can start to actually recover.
I used to be angered at the anti vaxx movement more so for putting highly vulnerable people at risk. And for basically allowing once beaten diseases to make a comeback (measles, chickenpox, polio etc.)
I think this pandemic has only strengthened my anger at them.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'll get back.

You know every single unvaccinated person's decision and intention by talking to a few?

That's a logical fallacy. How did you come to the conclusion keeping in mind unvaccinated doesn't mean ignorant (imo).

I didn't say that.
I said all the people I personally know, who are not vaxxed.
Not "every single unvaccinated person."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I didn't say that.
I said all the people I personally know, who are not vaxxed.
Not "every single unvaccinated person."

I was thinking you were using those you personally know to reflect the majority.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'll just say that every single unvaccinated person in my life as of today, are all wildly misinformed. One if them is a huge conspiracy theory follower who thinks the New World Order is trying to kill us all with vaccines and 5G.

Pretty much the same here....conspiracies, distrust of
Democrats, distrust of big business, wary of vaccines,
feelings of invulnerability.
I get a sense of what they believe by watching OAN,
which portrays much of the above, especially claims
of how dangerous vaccines are, & how Covid isn't
really a problem.