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Mandatory Vaccinations?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Don't blame our negativity for your reluctance about the vaccines. Blame the negativity spewed forth by the likes of FOX's Hannity, the folks at places like OAN, and the Republican politicians who are still bemoaning Trump's loss and doing whatever they can to undermine Biden and the American economy.

Are you going to blame our negativity if you end up getting COVID? Are you going to convince yourself that our negativity was the reason you didn't get vaccinated? Really?

What's wrong with my blaming your negativity?

You guys feel it's justified.

I don't follow silly antivaxxer drama and trump.

-

No. I'm not sure I'd end up with COVID. Nothing is certain in life.

Fear is the root of all evil. Fear makes people turn against each other.

I fear somethings about the pandemic. I'm sure you do and others here.

What we can do is acknowledge our fears. Mind you, you don't need to be anxious to have apprehension (rather) about catching or spreading covid to be afraid.

When we acknowledge our fears or "concerns", we make better decisions and don't snap at those who don't make the same decisions we do.
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Well, they don’t live in a vacuum, they’re getting this stuff from somewhere. Probably the same place all the other uninformed people are getting this stuff from – Fox News, OAN, YouTube videos and internet memes. How do I know this? Because they constantly share it on social media.

What my problem is, though, is taking what's on television and applying it to people say strangers (on and offline) and just unvaccinated/uninformed people in general.

No one can know why every unvaccinated person decides not to vaccinate and no one can know whether each person is misinformed. People in various countries alone makes me very very cautious to disregard (and for me ignore) what pro/antivaxxers fuss about on television. I skip the bias when I catch it and I only put things on Facebook that don't incite negativity-politics is one of them.

Because they haven’t vetted their sources and it’s obvious. Because they post and share factually incorrect memes and videos.

I know not all people vaccinated and not don't make decisions just because. I'm sure both sides especially those media hasn't highlighted that actually looked at both sides, resources, etc and made a decision. For example, two people can read CDC site and still walk away with opposing decisions.

Both unvaccinated and vaccinated can read the same material and social media and interpret what they read and see through the lens of their own preestablished political opinions.

I'd be hard pressed to find a vaccinated person who respect an unvaccinated person's decision while maintaining the decision the other person made he feels is not in the best interest in those around him.

I mean, I also see a lot of coercion, media obsessive push to get the vaccine and belittlement in commercials, in news stations, and just youtubers in general of unvaccinated people. Of course I see the silliness of the other side too.

Those that do what?

What about those unvaccinated who are informed with the correct information and choose to unvaccinated?

To me, it's one thing to say they made a bad decision from the same information vaccinated people have, it's a whole nothing thing to determine they are uniformed and getting misinformation to, maybe, justify why they made a "bad" decision rather than just leaving it as is.

"They 'couldn't have' made that decision on their own, they have been X (justification here)."

I want to do all I can to lessen human suffering and death for every human on the planet. If something as simple as getting everyone vaccinated is the way to do that, then I’m all in. Thinking about people needlessly dying makes me sick as well.

to be continued...
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
What my problem is, though, is taking what's on television and applying it to people say strangers (on and offline) and just unvaccinated/uninformed people in general.
I wasn't doing that, so it we have no problem here.

No one can know why every unvaccinated person decides not to vaccinate and no one can know whether each person is misinformed.
We can if we ask them and listen to what they're saying.

People in various countries alone makes me very very cautious to disregard (and for me ignore) what pro/antivaxxers fuss about on television. I skip the bias when I catch it and I only put things on Facebook that don't incite negativity-politics is one of them.
Great.

I know not all people vaccinated and not don't make decisions just because. I'm sure both sides especially those media hasn't highlighted that actually looked at both sides, resources, etc and made a decision. For example, two people can read CDC site and still walk away with opposing decisions.

Both unvaccinated and vaccinated can read the same material and social media and interpret what they read and see through the lens of their own preestablished political opinions.
The problem is that politics has now become injected where it doesn't belong. The problem is that medical information is being "interpreted" through a political lens instead of through the scientific/medical lens it should be viewed through.

I'd be hard pressed to find a vaccinated person who respect an unvaccinated person's decision while maintaining the decision the other person made he feels is not in the best interest in those around him.
I've still waiting to hear a good reason why someone shouldn't get vaccinated, other than those who can't for specific medical reasons.

I mean, I also see a lot of coercion, media obsessive push to get the vaccine and belittlement in commercials, in news stations, and just youtubers in general of unvaccinated people. Of course I see the silliness of the other side too.
Yeah, because it's vital that we reach herd immunity and as we've discussed, people are stuck in their political camps when politics has absolutely nothing to do with this in any way.
Governments and medical institutions have to cut through the BS being spread all over social media in order to get proper information out to people.

What about those unvaccinated who are informed with the correct information and choose to unvaccinated?
Do they exist?

To me, it's one thing to say they made a bad decision from the same information vaccinated people have, it's a whole nothing thing to determine they are uniformed and getting misinformation to, maybe, justify why they made a "bad" decision rather than just leaving it as is.
"They 'couldn't have' made that decision on their own, they have been X (justification here)."
to be continued...
The way to determine if a person is uninformed or not is to talk to them and listen to what they say.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I wasn't doing that, so it we have no problem here.

Cool

We can if we ask them and listen to what they're saying.

Even if we could, would you hear them and already make your own conclusions if their reasons are similar to others (generalising) or would you give them the benefit of the doubt through active listening?


The problem is that politics has now become injected where it doesn't belong. The problem is that medical information is being "interpreted" through a political lens instead of through the scientific/medical lens it should be viewed through.

This can be problemsome on both sides and hidden behind "it's an emergency" without forethought (as though it were a bomb and instincts supersede thinking things through). Vaccinated people can most definitely interpret perceived danger from a political lens.

Take what I've been repeating from the past couple months about "depending on factors." Of course there is A risk of catching COVID but just because the television and experts says everyone is at A risk does not mean everyone is at the SAME risk.... so I'd assume depending on-location, lifestyle, population, one's own health, family member's health, age-would determine whether one is vaccinated not just "being in an emergency."

It's getting to where that people want to be vaccinated not only because they won't be a time bomb to spread COVID but because they don't want to be "one of them." Can you imagine if they had vaccine season each year and one person says they don't want to get vaccinated again how would their peers feel?

I've still waiting to hear a good reason why someone shouldn't get vaccinated, other than those who can't for specific medical reasons.

Good reason? Whose criteria though?

I feel side affects is a very very very good reason to be skeptical regardless the odds. Usually when people are presented with treatment that works 99% the family will ask "what's the worse that can happen?"

The combination of experimental and side affects (for many people-they probably have other reasons to) are justifiable. Can you imagine if that One person who did what the Jones did took the vaccine for others and died from the vaccine (hoping that CDC and media doesn't suppress it or highlight and exaggerate it as a conspiracy), would their family members say "well, at least he didn't 'potentially' spread COVID, so he went to a better place."

My point is assessing risks and benefits regardless their percentage is a good reason. It really depends on how much people take the risk and others don't. I mean one antivaxxer here made a good point on long-term side affects. But it depends on how much people feel they are a potential carrier. Some more than others.

Yeah, because it's vital that we reach herd immunity and as we've discussed, people are stuck in their political camps when politics has absolutely nothing to do with this in any way.

Governments and medical institutions have to cut through the BS being spread all over social media in order to get proper information out to people.

Persuasion and coercion are two different things. You can persuade a person without needing to give them ultimatums and belittle their decisions if they make opposing choices. Political people persuade all the time especially during election time... it's highly different than if you told you can't go into certain businesses if you voted for the wrong party-which, as a result, means you voted against the health of the economy and must be shunned.

I had a question I asked a couple of times to people is what would they do with unvaccinated people so we won't potentially spread COVID to vaccinated people and those in the middle of being vaccinated?

I mean if we are "that bad" why wouldn't anyone answer that question (generously even if to say kill-them-at-stake/no pun)

Do they exist?

Ha. I don't even know based on RF I'd say no. For me if no one told me about it the only way I would have known is by seeing people wearing masks everywhere. Luckily the internet tends to have "good" information but the bad part about it is fussing which information is good and blaming people for not interpreting the information correctly. If it were a laughing matter, I'd probably laugh.

The way to determine if a person is uninformed or not is to talk to them and listen to what they say.

Just as long as we don't paint every unvaccinated person the color red I think we'd be fine, no?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
When we acknowledge our fears or "concerns", we make better decisions and don't snap at those who don't make the same decisions we do.

The apprehension and concerns rational people in the sciences, in government, and on the street have had is that enough people would not get vaccinated in a timely manner. That would cause three things.
  • More incubators for the virus to mutate to more dangerous forms.
  • A resurgence of higher numbers of cases and deaths.
  • Varients (like Delta) that spread more easily and infect younger people more easily.

We now have seen both of these things happening. The Delta variant spreads more quickly to more age groups and is more deadly.

That's not about spreading fear, that's about acknowledging science.

An example of spreading fear...
(My red emphases)

Https://www.click2houston.com/news/...ly-die-after-getting-the-coronavirus-vaccine/
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. – Several anti-vaccine social media posts are circulating around the internet claiming the new COVID-19 vaccine made a Tennessee critical care nurse faint shortly after getting the shot.

According to WRCB-TV, six nurses at CHI Memorial Hospital in the Chattanooga area were vaccinated, including critical care nurse Tiffany Dover, who experienced a fainting spell a few minutes after the vaccination.

She was surrounded by CHI Memorial medical personnel who assisted in administering the shot. A press conference from WRCB showed Dover receiving the vaccine when she suddenly dropped down to the floor.

Reaction from social media
Social media was quick to react to the nurse’s passing out, saying that Dover had died on the spot. Some of the posts also claimed that the vaccine is unsafe for humans after the video began circulating of Dover fainting began circulating on Facebook. The clip does not show her quick recovery.

The widely-shared video has already racked up more than 2,400 views, generating many “anti-vaccine” comments.

“Wow! And then you add the lack of O2 from wearing a mask on top of the vaccine,” said one of the comments. “But I’m sure they’ll say it’s not the shot.”

Statement from the hospital
Dover explained to both WRCB and in a statement from CHI Memorial Hospital that her fainting was due to Over-Reactive Vagal Response, which makes her faint after experiencing pain from things such as stubbing a toe or a hangnail.
When I read this, I was reminded of a guy in my Basic Training unit. He was a fitness buff and quite muscular. When we got our mandatory shots, he passed out on the spot.

Another anti-vaxxer...

Ochsner Lafayette General issues statement about Olivia Guidry, nurse who died after COVID diagnosis
Guidry, according to social media posts from family and friends, died Saturday from neurological complications after recently testing positive for COVID-19.

Guidry was diagnosed with COVID in early July, according to a social media post from her sister, Brittany Smith. She spiked a high fever and had a seizure, Smith wrote. She was placed in a medically induced coma on Thursday.

The story about her death became viral after anti-vaccine tweets allegedly made by Guidry in 2020 were widely shared. It is unclear whether Guidry had been vaccinated, however, she tweeted the following: "This vaccine has been released using recombinant DNA faster than any vaccine in the world. It manipulates your DNA at the tiniest molecular level. Do. Not. Get. It. It's not safe."

She also tweeted in July 2020: "Am I the only one thinking they are trying to see how much they can control us? We are a straight-up social experiment."
This is just one more example of the real dangers of spreading and believing lies.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Because you posted your hesitations about the vaccine before we responded.

If you hadn't expressed your denial of the vaccines' effectiveness, no one would have needed to counter your specious arguments.

Why do they feel they need to?

Everyone knows my decision. They put the intentions in or re-arrange it to fit their antivaxxer views, and pretty much burned me to the stake.

What more do you want?

Then where did you get your misinformation from?

Definitely not media... CDC has good information on side affects and other things like that. WHO has some great info. A lot of the governors have given states up to dates on what's going on in our area.... I found out a good information about what herd immunity is and I think couple days ago a good video about how COVID virus affects the immune system (in layman's language) without the lecturer saying his or her opinions at the end of the clip.

If you talking about things like FOX, CNN, and RF, no... I don't take that into account much unless I double check it.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Sacramento woman urges others to get vaccinated after losing husband to COVID (kcra.com)

SACRAMENTO, Calif. —Vaccine hesitancy, according to public health experts, remains one of the biggest challenges in stopping the continued spread of COVID-19.

That's why a Sacramento woman is sharing about the devastating loss of her husband.

She said the two "weren't sure" about getting the COVID-19 vaccination until it was too late...

...Mia said she and Brad didn't seek out the COVID-19 vaccination. They weren't ready.

"We weren't vaccinated. We wanted to wait and see how people reacted to it," Mia said. "But we waited too long."

On July 11, six days before his death, Brad shared his final message to friends on his Facebook page.

"His last post was, 'Please go get vaccinated .... This is nothing nice,'" Mia explained. "That was his last post."

Now, Mia is determined to do her part, trying to protect others, by sharing his story. She said it's what Brad would have wanted her to do.

"If I can save one life for Brad then, you know, it doesn't have to be in vain," said Mia. "It's not gonna go away until everybody's vaccinated."

Just within the past week, Mia said at least two dozen of the couple's "vaccine hesitant" friends have sent messages to her saying that after holding out, they have either received or scheduled their first vaccine shots after hearing Brad's story.

Sad that some people have to see someone die before they'll get vaccinated.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Now the vaccine is poison. What drives people to believe these things? Being a part of a cult? Fitting in with others?
The intellectual leaders of the extreme-right sure do try to frighten their audience all day long.

RW media = selling Fear 24/7

 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This is just one more example of the real dangers of spreading and believing lies.

I skip the red cause it bothers my eyes and I already got your points, so is this supposed to convince me of something?

RF isn't the best place to get information about COVID... it's highly biased even with threads that are supposed to be unbiased. So, I don't pay them no mind unless it's in short bursts where I can look it up myself.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Everyone knows my decision. They put the intentions in or re-arrange it to fit their antivaxxer views, and pretty much burned me to the stake.
I gotta say....this is really weird to watch. You keep starting or participating in threads about COVID vaccination, but then you get upset and play the victim when you get pushback on your refusal to be vaccinated while never really articulating your reasons.

If you don't want to get pushback or be criticized, why do you keep posting in these sorts of threads? It looks very much to me like you like the attention you're getting.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I gotta say....this is really weird to watch. You keep starting or participating in threads about COVID vaccination, but then you get upset and play the victim when you get pushback on your refusal to be vaccinated while never really articulating your reasons.

This doesn't invalidate my point whether or not I'm involved. There are other people here that are not vaccinated and get push back (just different personalities tend to handle it differently that and/or they just not stay in the conversation).

I choose not to vaccinate. Calling it refusal (ignorance, whatever) is not my words and wouldn't be my choice of words to tell others they made the wrong decision. Reminds me of religion, actually, when christians tell atheists they choose not to believe in god and if they push back (which many do) they say it's rejection. Same difference.

If you don't want to get pushback or be criticized, why do you keep posting in these sorts of threads? It looks very much to me like you like the attention you're getting.

To tell you honestly, I haven't made confrontational threads about COVID and vaccination so far I remember. But I have replied in many others have made for the vaccine but had to bite my tongue with a few that outright called antivaxxer names. Offline, I really don't think of it at all.

Maybe it's an RF thing. Probably latter on in life (I keep telling myself) I'll drop RF... why do people set themselves up and complain about being set up? No one's the victim here.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
This doesn't invalidate my point whether or not I'm involved. There are other people here that are not vaccinated and get push back (just different personalities tend to handle it differently that and/or they just not stay in the conversation).

I choose not to vaccinate. Calling it refusal (ignorance, whatever) is not my words and wouldn't be my choice of words to tell others they made the wrong decision. Reminds me of religion, actually, when christians tell atheists they choose not to believe in god and if they push back (which many do) they say it's rejection. Same difference.

To tell you honestly, I haven't made confrontational threads about COVID and vaccination so far I remember. But I have replied in many others have made for the vaccine but had to bite my tongue with a few that outright called antivaxxer names. Offline, I really don't think of it at all.

Maybe it's an RF thing. Probably latter on in life (I keep telling myself) I'll drop RF... why do people set themselves up and complain about being set up? No one's the victim here.
I'm not going to feed into this so I'll just say....it still strikes me as you liking the attention.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Now the vaccine is poison. What drives people to believe these things? Being a part of a cult? Fitting in with others?
The intellectual leaders of the extreme-right sure do try to frighten their audience all day long.

RW media = selling Fear 24/7


Education purposes???
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Why do they feel they need to?
Here's why...
Replies: 714
Views: 8,364

I wouldn't want any of those 8,364 views to rely on your comments when I have a chance to correct them.

Everyone knows my decision. They put the intentions in or re-arrange it to fit their antivaxxer views, and pretty much burned me to the stake.

Nah. If you had been burned at the stake, you wouldn't be here posting about reasons to not get vaccinated.

A lot of the governors have given states up to dates on what's going on in our area...

Have these governors written papers on the subject or have they given out soundbites? Do these governors have any higher education in the field of viral infections? No?





I found out a good information about what herd immunity is and I think couple days ago a good video about how COVID virus affects the immune system (in layman's language) without the lecturer saying his or her opinions at the end of the clip.

YouTube huh. Does the author have any higher education in the field of viral infections? You don't know? Hmm.





ETA: You can find a lot of things on YouTube.


This one says vaccines are poisonous. Do you believe that?
 
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