Many many Chariot wheels found at bottom of Red sea.

[Subduction Zone]

your lack of bible knowledge may seem that it contradicts. But it doesn't. Many read it and do not have a clue.
RIGHTeous-- they have Gods truth.

Wrong again. I can probably demonstrate more thorough Bible knowledge than you do. All that you will be able to understand is your own dogma. I can do something that you cannot do. I can show the failures of the Bible. You have to pretend that they do not exist.

 

[shunyadragon]

I personally do not use that find of chariot wheels in the red sea as proof of anything, and I don't find it in archaeological sites I may visit for evidence of the Exodus. I do not know the ins and outs of the find and why it was rejected as legitimate. However it could be evidence that the crossing of the Red Sea by chariots happened. It should not be swept under carpet because people can think of natural reasons for the wheels being there, as opposed to supernatural reasons.

It was rejected as evidence because no chariot wheels were found in the Red Sea.

 

[oldbadger]

It was rejected as evidence because no chariot wheels were found in the Red Sea.

I noticed a thread of yours from 2023, asking whether any were interested in following the bible back through whatever historical knowledge is known.
On returning to post a note to you, I couldn't find the section where I'd seen that thread. !!!
I've never researched 'historical support for OT events' before and want to do this now.
So far I've perused back as far as King's and Chronicles but I very much would like to reach further back.
If you would kindly remind me of that thread title and the section is in I would make an initial reply on it. Thank you.

 

[shunyadragon]

I noticed a thread of yours from 2023, asking whether any were interested in following the bible back through whatever historical knowledge is known.
On returning to post a note to you, I couldn't find the section where I'd seen that thread. !!!
I've never researched 'historical support for OT events' before and want to do this now.
So far I've perused back as far as King's and Chronicles but I very much would like to reach further back.
If you would kindly remind me of that thread title and the section is in I would make an initial reply on it. Thank you.

I believe the thread was moved to Historical Debates. The following is the post. It was intended as an introduction of the known historical and archeological evidence for further discussion.

The entire history of the Hebrew tribes is dominated by the fact that the region of the Hebrew tribes was surrounded by larger more powerful kingdoms.

One clarification is the main location of the early Hebrew tribes (1200-1000 BCE) is the Levant Hills of Judah and later the Jordan Valley not the coastal region. The Coastal region. In the Collapse of the Late Bronze Age was dominated by the Sea People (?) and Philistines that invaded with the Deterioration of the Phoenician/Canaanite. Hittite, and Egyptian city states. The Egyptian Kingdom survived in Egypt. I see a lot of maps showing the Hebrew Kingdoms extending to the coast of the Mediterranean,

History of the ancient Levant - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Late Bronze Age collapse​

During the 12th century BC, between c. 1200 and 1150, all of these powers suddenly collapsed. Centralized state systems collapsed, and the region was hit by famine. Chaos ensued throughout the region, and many urban centers were burnt to the ground by famine-struck natives[59] and an assortment of raiders known as the Sea Peoples, who eventually settled in the Levant. The Sea Peoples' origins are ambiguous and many theories have proposed them to be Trojans, Sardinians, Achaeans, Sicilians or Lycians.[60][61][62][63]

Urban centers which survived Hittite and Egyptian expansions in 1600 BC, including Alalakh, Ugarit, Megiddo and Kadesh, were razed to the ground and were never rebuilt. The Hittite empire was destroyed, and its capital Tarḫuntašša was razed to the ground. Egypt repelled its attackers with only a major effort, and over the next century shrank to its territorial core, its central authority permanently weakened.

The primary outline introduction source will be History of ancient Israel and Judah - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which is well documented detailed reference with good references cited trough out. The following is the introduction.

Israel and Judah were Iron Age kingdoms of the old Near East. The area of time covered in this page is from the first mention of the name Israel in the archaeological record (1200 BCE) to the end of a independent Judean kingdom near the time of Jesus Christ.

The two kingdoms arose on the most eastern coast of the Mediterranean, the most western part of the Fertile Crescent, between the old empires of Egypt to the south, Assyria, Babylonia, later Persia to the north and east, Greece and later Rome across the sea to the west. The area is small, maybe only 100 miles north to south and 40 or 50 miles east to west.

Israel and Judah were from the Canaanite culture of the late Bronze Age, and were based on villages that formed and grew in the southern Levant highlands (today for the region between the coastal plain and the Jordan Valley) between c. 1200-1000 BCE. Israel became an important local power in the 9th and 8th centuries BCE before falling to the Assyrians. The southern kingdom, Judah, became rich inside the greater empires of the region before a revolt against Babylon led to it being destroyed early in the 6th century.

Judean exiles returned from Babylon early in the following Persian period, starting a Judahite presence in the province of Yehud, as Judah was now called. Yehud was absorbed into the subsequent Greek-ruled kingdoms which followed the conquests of Alexander the Great. In the 2nd century BC, the Jews went up against Greek rule and created the Hasmonean kingdom, which became first a Roman dependency and soon went under the rule of the Roman Empire.

The next posts I will address the history of Hebrew tribes before 1200 BCE and begin the discussion of the historical time that the Biblical Exodus is described to take place. More related to the subject of the thread discarding the mythology of chariot wheels in the Red Sea.

 

[oldbadger]

I believe the thread was moved to Historical Debates. The following is the post. It was intended as an introduction of the known historical and archeological evidence for further discussion.

The entire history of the Hebrew tribes is dominated by the fact that the region of the Hebrew tribes was surrounded by larger more powerful kingdoms.

One clarification is the main location of the early Hebrew tribes (1200-1000 BCE) is the Levant Hills of Judah and later the Jordan Valley not the coastal region. The Coastal region. In the Collapse of the Late Bronze Age was dominated by the Sea People (?) and Philistines that invaded with the Deterioration of the Phoenician/Canaanite. Hittite, and Egyptian city states. The Egyptian Kingdom survived in Egypt. I see a lot of maps showing the Hebrew Kingdoms extending to the coast of the Mediterranean,

History of the ancient Levant - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Late Bronze Age collapse​

During the 12th century BC, between c. 1200 and 1150, all of these powers suddenly collapsed. Centralized state systems collapsed, and the region was hit by famine. Chaos ensued throughout the region, and many urban centers were burnt to the ground by famine-struck natives[59] and an assortment of raiders known as the Sea Peoples, who eventually settled in the Levant. The Sea Peoples' origins are ambiguous and many theories have proposed them to be Trojans, Sardinians, Achaeans, Sicilians or Lycians.[60][61][62][63]

Urban centers which survived Hittite and Egyptian expansions in 1600 BC, including Alalakh, Ugarit, Megiddo and Kadesh, were razed to the ground and were never rebuilt. The Hittite empire was destroyed, and its capital Tarḫuntašša was razed to the ground. Egypt repelled its attackers with only a major effort, and over the next century shrank to its territorial core, its central authority permanently weakened.

The primary outline introduction source will be History of ancient Israel and Judah - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which is well documented detailed reference with good references cited trough out. The following is the introduction.

Israel and Judah were Iron Age kingdoms of the old Near East. The area of time covered in this page is from the first mention of the name Israel in the archaeological record (1200 BCE) to the end of a independent Judean kingdom near the time of Jesus Christ.

The two kingdoms arose on the most eastern coast of the Mediterranean, the most western part of the Fertile Crescent, between the old empires of Egypt to the south, Assyria, Babylonia, later Persia to the north and east, Greece and later Rome across the sea to the west. The area is small, maybe only 100 miles north to south and 40 or 50 miles east to west.

Israel and Judah were from the Canaanite culture of the late Bronze Age, and were based on villages that formed and grew in the southern Levant highlands (today for the region between the coastal plain and the Jordan Valley) between c. 1200-1000 BCE. Israel became an important local power in the 9th and 8th centuries BCE before falling to the Assyrians. The southern kingdom, Judah, became rich inside the greater empires of the region before a revolt against Babylon led to it being destroyed early in the 6th century.

Judean exiles returned from Babylon early in the following Persian period, starting a Judahite presence in the province of Yehud, as Judah was now called. Yehud was absorbed into the subsequent Greek-ruled kingdoms which followed the conquests of Alexander the Great. In the 2nd century BC, the Jews went up against Greek rule and created the Hasmonean kingdom, which became first a Roman dependency and soon went under the rule of the Roman Empire.

The next posts I will address the history of Hebrew tribes before 1200 BCS and begin the discussion of the historical time that the Biblical Exodus is described to take place. More related to the subject of the thread discarding the mythology of chariot wheels in the Red Sea.

Thank you.
I've got lots of reading to follow, just from that post.
I'll find your thread in historical debates so that I can reply to you there, but it will take some time for me to take in all that you have included here.
All the best.....

 

[servant1]

So do you. Even worse you have the words of uneducated men.

Men lead by Gods holy spirit have access to all knowledge.

 

[servant1]

Wrong again. I can probably demonstrate more thorough Bible knowledge than you do. All that you will be able to understand is your own dogma. I can do something that you cannot do. I can show the failures of the Bible. You have to pretend that they do not exist.

You know little of the bible truth. Yu use altered translations.
God will show you your failure, is that what you want. To realize you served satan and didn't even know it. He beat 99% living today centuries ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Men lead by Gods holy spirit have access to all knowledge.

How would you properly test your beliefs? You do not even know how to do that.

Here is the problem, if you cannot think of a reasonable observation that could possibly show your beliefs to be wrong you are then reasoning irrationally.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You know little of the bible truth. Yu use altered translations.
God will show you your failure, is that what you want. To realize you served satan and didn't even know it. He beat 99% living today centuries ago.

No, I do not. The KJV is not "unaltered". All of the translations have to be off a bit from the original since a perfect translation is not possible.

And you need to back off of such claims about others. I am just as justified as saying that you serve Satan since you claim that God is a liar. You would not like that. If you do not like it pointed out how you serve Satan you should not claim the same about others.

Once again, how would you justify your beliefs rationally?

 

[The Hammer]

You know little of the bible truth. Yu use altered translations.

So you speak Greek?

 

[servant1]

How would you properly test your beliefs? You do not even know how to do that.

Here is the problem, if you cannot think of a reasonable observation that could possibly show your beliefs to be wrong you are then reasoning irrationally.

God reveals himself to those that draw close to him and live by faith. That is how i know.

 

[servant1]

No, I do not. The KJV is not "unaltered". All of the translations have to be off a bit from the original since a perfect translation is not possible.

And you need to back off of such claims about others. I am just as justified as saying that you serve Satan since you claim that God is a liar. You would not like that. If you do not like it pointed out how you serve Satan you should not claim the same about others.

Once again, how would you justify your beliefs rationally?

Every translation on earth with Gods name removed in over 7000 places= altered by satans will to mislead.

 

[servant1]

So you speak Greek?

I don't have to God does. But all can look up John 1:1 and 2 Cor 4:4 and see 100% the Word was not called capitol G God at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons. ALL claiming to be bible scholars know its fact. They say nothing.

 

[The Hammer]

I don't have to God does..

No your God does not.

The Gods speak no human language that can be put to paper. Nor spoken aloud.

 

[servant1]

No your God does not.

The Gods speak no human language that can be put to paper. Nor spoken aloud.

At the tower of Babel when God sent them out all over confused their languages= God knew all of the languages to do that.
God can speak any language on earth 1000 x better than any mortal can add 1+1=2

 

[Subduction Zone]

God reveals himself to those that draw close to him and live by faith. That is how i know.

No, that is just another claim. That is not knowledge. Members of other religions make almost exactly the same claim. You should not conflate knowledge and belief.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Every translation on earth with Gods name removed in over 7000 places= altered by satans will to mislead.

Prove this. And I doubt if you even know "God's name".

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I can show the failures of the Bible.

It is possible that you failed to understand what was said. As I can show you three different waters and three different colours, and I can also show you three different animals to verify the facts.

Look here the Bible mentions three heights of waters as in the sea, the river, and the stream:
"And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod".

Just as here the Bible mentions three animals as in the cattle, the goats, and the sheep:
"And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats".

Just as here the Bible mentions three colours as in the red, the purple, and the blue:
"And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses".



Now try to understand here the speech is overlapping:

The Red Sea:
"To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever"


So can you notice the Red Sea is as an overlap of the three waters and the three colours?

Look:

Red - Purple - Blue
Sea - River - Steam
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

And for verification the Red Heifer can be seen as another overlap. An overlap of the three animals and the three colours.

The Red Heifer (Cattle):
"This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke".


Are you able to understand this concept of what is said? Can you now clearly hear the words "Red Sea" differently? Do you require further verification of the fact of the Red Sea overlap? I can show it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is possible that you failed to understand what was said. As I can show you three different waters and three different colours, and I can also show you three different animals to verify the facts.

Look here the Bible mentions three heights of waters as in the sea, the river, and the stream:
"And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod".

Just as here the Bible mentions three animals as in the cattle, the goats, and the sheep:
"And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats".

Just as here the Bible mentions three colours as in the red, the purple, and the blue:
"And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses".



Now try to understand here the speech is overlapping:

The Red Sea:
"To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever"


So can you notice the Red Sea is as an overlap of the three waters and the three colours?

Look:

Red - Purple - Blue
Sea - River - Steam
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

And for verification the Red Heifer can be seen as another overlap. An overlap of the three animals and the three colours.

The Red Heifer (Cattle):
"This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke".


Are you able to understand this concept of what is said? Can you now clearly hear the words "Red Sea" differently? Do you require further verification of the fact of the Red Sea overlap? I can show it.

No, sorry. You cannot show anything. Have you ever thought of taking a course on logic?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

No, sorry. You cannot show anything. Have you ever thought of taking a course on logic?

I can show things.

Like I can show you three metals:
"To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass".

And I can show here the metals overlapping with the colours:
"Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men".

The three colours:

Just as here the Bible mentions three colours as in the red, the purple, and the blue:
"And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses".

Can you understand the logic of one metal and one colour is missing from the two sets of threes?

Being the Brass and the Red.


Red - Purple - Blue
Sea - River - Stream
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Brass - Silver - Gold

(The Bible mentions brass oxen under the sea. If you cant understand that then see above).

I have shown you the red sea, the red heifer, and now shown the red brass.
Are you still not able to understand the logic of it?
It is very simple.