Marijuana ~ What is your opinion toward it?

[Father Heathen]

The "problems" associated with weed have much more to do with an individual's sense of personal responsibility than it does with the plant itself. The theatrical demonizing, scare mongering, anecdotes and appeals to emotion hold no weight.

 

[outhouse]

That's awfully close to breaking Rule 1. I'll say it again, you need to calm the **** down.

just a question?

Of course they are. They're problems with the war on drugs, not marijuana. Legalization would do more to solve them than anything else.

but its legal here, pretty much, and the problems and issues have not decreased at all.


you should check, weed is part of the war on drugs.

So you admit that regular usage isn't addiction?

Like your dad, my dad drank everyday. he was never drunk and never had problems.

but I realize my dad was still addicted.

you can call it what you want, i cannot and will not describe or attribute anything to your dad

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

but its legal here, pretty much, and the problems and issues have not decreased at all.

I assume you're just talking about posession, right? There's a whole other side to the legality of marijuana: production and distribution.

It's all fine and good for a person not to be charged for small-scale posession, but until a business person can go to the bank and get a loan for his grow-op, or apply for a municipal business licence as a marijuana wholesaler, it's not exactly legal in the way that would prevent criminals from being involved.

 

[DreadFish]

Ill bare my soul for the sake of this thread.

I started smoking weed at 15, my grades went from a b+ average to d- on average in a few months.


with only one change in enviroment, weed.



fix that and ill back it

Now, I mean no offense, but you have no logical ground to prove that cannabis itself, the plant, and its use, is inherently harmful.

People do dangerous things when it comes to illegal things, and nearly legal. I know people have actually fought and killed for land to use as legal growing land for medical marijuana in California. Thats not marijuana's fault, thats peoples stupidity and greed.

I have also known people who smoked daily and still had good grades and kept a straight life. The point is, the person smoking needs to learn moderation and simply, how to control themselves (in regard to anything in life).

I dont mean offense, but you're the one who chose to use marijuana the way you used it, and you paid for it. There are without a doubt ways to use marijuana that will be detrimental to ones well being. It's like I said in my post, however you use it is what you're gonna get out of it.

I know you have a lot of emotion tied to this topic, but you have seen an extreme form of the way marijuana has been used, and that emotion tied to the situation, along with exposure to one extreme can make you're argument biased and not objective.

I do, however, agree that kids shouldnt be using it. Kids shouldnt be using any intoxicants. Their brains havent fully formed, their judgement is impaired just because they are younger, and they dont know how to control these things as well.

Mainly I see two problems. One, the age of the user, and the fact that young people are not as capable to handle the experience or to moderate themselves. Two, the legality of it. Now, since it has been illegal for many decades, I see an explosive effect as a result of it becoming legal. Its like a kid who has been sheltered their whole life and then goes to college where they go completely overboard with alcohol, partying, sex etc. because they suddenly have the freedom to do it. It makes it exciting. So, imagine that cannabis has been legal for a good decade and a half, its going to be more normalized, regulations would have been in place and there likely would not be violence associated with the cultivation and selling of the product, just as there is no longer violence in association with the making and distributing of alcohol.

From an objective point of view, free of emotion, consider this.

 

[outhouse]

I assume you're just talking about posession, right? There's a whole other side to the legality of marijuana: production and distribution.

It's all fine and good for a person not to be charged for small-scale posession, but until a business person can go to the bank and get a loan for his grow-op, or apply for a municipal business licence as a marijuana wholesaler, it's not exactly legal in the way that would prevent criminals from being involved.

nope, we have stores and buisinesses open. one can grow plenty for personal use legally

 

[outhouse]

Now, I mean no offense, but you have no logical ground to prove that cannabis itself, the plant, and its use, is inherently harmful.

so it doesnt mess up kids educations?

Do you think, that most of your problems would not have happened had you waited till an older age to use it? They say its best to wait till around 21-22 because the brain does not fully mature until around those years, and the last part of the brain to mature is the part that handles decision-making.

waiting would have been a benifit no doubt.

you paid for it

and im a big boy and accept this.

Marijuana is no more addictive than ice cream.

you do however loose some credibility with that statement

 

[Acim]

It should be decriminalized.

Totally agreed.
And is main point of this thread.

The government, through the DEA, has lied, as in knowingly did not tell the truth, about the science regarding medical marijuana.

Perhaps a side point, but IMO huge in context of society with regards to most substances. I don't think the lies exist as much as before, but that they existed and that science was in any way associated with it, is huge travesty. It definitely shows (for umpteenth hundred time) that 'science' can be manipulated given 'power' or 'money' to do so.

Arrests for the use of marijuana is one of the primary reasons that we have overcrowded prisons and a failed justice system. Throwing drug users in prison means they are more likely than not to repeat offend and more likely to commit a more serious crime than if we treat drug users as a health problem.

Another huge issue and is one that I think makes most sense with all substances, but if start with MJ, it could be used as demonstration.

I'll agree that it is not harmless, but to disagree that MJ is very tame compared with what's around is ridiculous. Of all the persons I've met who've done both MJ and alcohol, it is overwhelming majority that know MJ to be far more mild than alcohol. It is really night and day, the difference. And like prohibition, the illegal nature of MJ causes a whole bunch of stuff to happen that is very unnecessary:
- people (like myself) try MJ and find out 'they' lied to us. This, IMO, is why 'gateway effect' is mostly in place. If they lied about MJ, maybe they are lying about the rest.
- people getting shot, hurt, ripped off (large sums of money), and in league of high crime over this is absolutely silly for what this substance is. For the harder substances where the lines are more clear for many, I can see why the high crime, but not here.
- following last point, people are getting very very very rich off of sales of this substance. If they manage not to get caught, they are making hundreds of millions depending on their level of trafficking. IMO, these people are actually strong advocates for keeping it illegal, which may be counterintuitive until you think about what they stand to lose should it become legal and controlled.
- people do it regularly for various reasons, but near top is because any sense of treatment would mean admitting one is criminal first. So, that is simply not going to happen, and thus society gets to be enabler in very real sense by denying role of getting people off, or helping reduce usage since education is incredibly biased toward, 'don't do this, otherwise you'll DIE!!!!'

What ****** me off is that we didn't learn this as a society in the last few years. We've known this, on a scientific basis, for quite some time. Every step of the way there has been a medical or scientific organization or panel the government hired to study the effects of criminalization and the whole way they advised against it. But we still do it.

Very much agreed.

The issue that proponents like myself and others on this thread must realize is if it were legalized on wide scale, there would be months, if not years, of 'let's exploit the heck out of this great business item.' And I'm not sure if there is any way around that given our culture. But I do think that would dissipate and the effects in medium term are very challenging to account for. Such as, I can see some alcohol binge drinkers getting off that drug and changing over to this one, which would be a relatively great thing. But admittedly, this and a whole bunch of things are speculative. I think proponents do have some responsibility (especially former users like myself) to advocate strongly for balanced education if/when legalization is realistically on table. Without that, it will become as much a business venture as alcohol or viagra and people will look to exploit the heck out of something that can be wonderful, but can also (like any substance) be wonderfully abused.

 

[godncountryrdead]

Marijuana ~ What is your opinion toward it? . .

Marijuana is the least harmful "illegal" (I say it with quotations because it is a joke that it is illegal) drug that is out there. People should be able to smoke it. It can't kill you, it helps with depression, nausea, headaches, all kinds of medical problems, plus it just makes you feel better. Why would that be illegal?? Oh yeah, because there is profit to be made off of it being illegal through drug dealers and pharmaceutical companies...

 

[godncountryrdead]

Because marijuana is illegal is why it is labeled as a gateway drug. If you can't buy at the store, then you look for a drug dealer. That drug dealer is probably not just selling weed, they are in the game for a profit. Buying the marijuana exposes you to harder drugs and then people make their own decisions about buying those substances. smoking marijuana does not mean you will be smoking crack a year from now if you don't decide to buy crack from your dealer...come on people, can we get a little personal responsibility please??

 

[Acim]

So you think its alright for little johny taking a lunchbox full of joints to sell to children for their lunch money?????

highschool kids futures ruined from the start?????????


deaths from cartel grow operations????


deaths from distribution issues?????


deaths from rip off's gone wromg????????

ALL reasons why keeping it illegal is insane.

Let's compare each of these questions to alcohol.

- Little johny isn't taking alcohol in lunch pail to sell for for lunch money.
- Highschool kids futures ruined from start is plausible with alcohol, and would therefore be with MJ. This is one of decent points raised, but my counter argument is make it legal from age 0, so that by high school it isn't explored as if 'this is first time I've ever had opportunity to do what the hell I want.'
- deaths from alcohol cartels in last 30 years is probably close to 0. If above 1, I'd be very surprised.
- deaths from distribution of alcohol is what, traffic accidents, akin to delivering furniture. IOW, non issue.
- deaths from rip offs on alcohol, again, non issue.

Clearly legalizing it would correct the insane problems that society is enabling by the criminalization of this substance.

 

[outhouse]

Clearly legalizing it would correct the insane problems that society is enabling by the criminalization of this substance.

first the two substances are used differently.

second, in Ca its mostly legal, with no effect on the negative. There is a slight increase of problems due to the saturation of product

 

[Acim]

You want to discus something, lets talk about how to stop its use in schools. You will need to be able to address this is you want widespread legality. you dont need to convince me, you need to be able to convince all of the public who looks at weed as what it is, A drug that screws up their children and grandchildren.

At this point, this may be only thing we agree on (that it must be discussed at level of younger kids using it, otherwise legalizing will not resolve this key issue).

I've addressed this though in another thread, and my argument is the same. Education must absolutely be balanced, and honest, otherwise the denials are likely to lead to persistence of (no pun intended) chronic users / abusers. Balanced education means, you be as clear as you can (given local users, treatment centers, business people) what are benefits and cons. Lying about (perceived) benefits, will only be exposed for lies that they are once users realize they didn't tell us everything. Tell it all. And I say tell it often. Give one (very basic) version in say 3rd grade, another more advanced version in 7th grade, and then 2 more versions in high school. Make them a month long in high school. For how life changing this can be, and for how high (no pun intended) usage is likely to be among peers, I think a month on this is warranted. One day, as we do now, is ludicrous and it is no wonder why kids barely absorb the key information, while you have the peers who've already tried it, essentially letting other kids know, 'they're lying to you. It ain't like that.'

I also think education ought to be at very least neutral, and if possible, made interesting, even inspiring. Teaching this like it is STD, or akin to 'someone's died, please sit down and shut up,' is incredibly poor education. While the idea of making it interesting could be exploited by some, I think until education becomes more balanced on this subject, it ought to be testing out a whole lot of approaches to see what kids really tune into and listen to.

All I know is education so far is close to lying (it really is) and is part of the problem. It actually is. Would be like if we lived in a socialist state, and kids were given a 2 hour lecture in high school, on only 1 day, about how capitalism and earning a profit will lead you to jumping out of a window some day, because failure is inevitable on that path.

 

[Acim]

I've been around users all my life, and no one I knew had an experience with death with marijuana. There were some stupid things and consequences, but compared to the number of pot users (from occasional to habitual use) your experience has got to be extremely rare.

Very much agreed. I would say I've known dozens, if not hundreds of users, and am aware of zero deaths. And the people that had big problems with it, were fairly easy to discern that they'd have issues with any substance. And I mean any substance.

Again, I'm not going to say it is harmless, but will say MJ is tame. I will also say that medium to long term use where it is used daily is a problem. But that is more my opinion than fact, because people I know in that boat, are by societal standards doing 'very well for themselves.' IMO, any drug (prescribed by doctor or otherwise) that is used regularly for more than a year is problematic. There may be around 1% exception to this 'rule' I'm bringing up, which does come back to my opinion, but one I think could be backed up if we didn't live in such a heavily drug influenced worldwide culture.

I'm pretty sure everyone I know is on some sort of drug (far majority of those are legal / prescribed substances).

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah, marijuana isn't completely harmless, but nether is soft drinks and fast food, and more people have died from heart disease and other obesity related health issues than have died from marijuana.

 

[DreadFish]

so it doesnt mess up kids educations?





waiting would have been a benifit no doubt.





and im a big boy and accept this.





you do however loose some credibility with that statement

Like I said, kids shouldnt be using intoxicants given their young age and brain development. I dont think they are mature enough to handle it .


And of course, you accept it. I wasnt implying that you couldnt


What do you think would be a better comparison than ice cream? I used it because, to me, smoking marijuana is like doing or eating something that I really enjoy. I can stop at any time, I wouldnt experience withdrawal from not partaking, but why would I stop something I enjoy? Unless of course it has become detrimental to my well-being, in which case there are many things people enjoy that can be detrimental to their well-being, but arent inherently harmful in all situations. I would be fine without partaking, but since it is something I enjoy, I would probably miss it sometimes.

So that's where the ice cream comparison came from

 

[no-body]

As a person with anxiety and mental health issues I despise the effects of cannabis. I have tried it in almost every way, shape or form imaginable.

Scenario: "dude you have to try this medicinal strain it is great for people with anxiety" I toke up, have a panic attack and look at the person like they are crazy.

It is not a drug for me.

That said it should totally be legalized, decriminalized and available freely to any adult that wants it as with any other drug.

 

[DreadFish]

Actually, debate can be either harmless or harmful too I think. Some people can debate without taking things personally, and and some people get incredible offended or very angry. Some people act hateful in debate, and some debates end very terribly. Some debates handled by mature people, have no detriment to them whatsoever.

Just a little observation.

Also, im not implying anything about anyone in the debate, just so thats known It's just an observation about "debate" in general.

 

[DreadFish]

As a person with anxiety and mental health issues I despise the effects of cannabis. I have tried it in almost every way, shape or form imaginable.

Scenario: "dude you have to try this medicinal strain it is great for people with anxiety" I toke up, have a panic attack and look at the person like they are crazy.

It is not a drug for me.

That said it should totally be legalized, decriminalized and available freely to any adult that wants it as with any other drug.

Yeah, it doesnt work on everyone, as is the nature of many medications.

For me, a combination of smoking and meditation completely nullified my anxiety. I went from sitting in my college class feeling like I would die because I felt so nervous (about nothing in particular) to being able to handle some very heavy events with only a hint of anxiety.

Having cannabis in my system over a longer period of time (just as all psychiatric medications require for effect) calmed my nerves down, and meditation helped me to learn how to not be anxious.

Its not that getting high once will calm one down, its having the psychoactive components in one's system over a couple weeks at least whereby it has effect on anxiety and depression. It's the same thing as any anti-anxiety or anti-depressant. It needs to be taken regularly for a little while to start having an effect. And regularly taking cannabis does not require that one takes enough to get high or stoned every time one takes it.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Marijuana ~ What is your opinion toward it? . .

I think it's an herb yielding seed after it's kind

 

[Biblestudent_007]

If you can't buy at the store, then you look for a drug dealer.

They are offering that herbal potpourri stuff at some head shops. Its a mimic of real marijuana but apparently its popular in some circles.