Mass Assault in Cologne, Mayor blames female victims ?!

[Debater Slayer]

Please provide a quotation of hers for my consideration on this matter.

Here are her statements that I'm basing my argument on:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...nduct-to-prevent-future-assault-a6798186.html

Are you suggesting that advice on being a little safer with other friends and being a little safer by not getting within a knife's reach of strangers....to citizens...isn't actually a warning but an attempt to blame victims from a previous event?

When such advice is given right after an assault committed by people who got close to their victims and not the opposite, yes, I think this "advice" amounts to blaming the victims. I don't know what the mayor's intentions were; I'm talking about the implications of her words in isolation of much else.

 

[Debater Slayer]

By the way, I notice that most of the members here who don't find any victim-blaming in the mayor's comments are men.

Pass me the next batch of shocking news, please.

 

[Koldo]

Rapists are criminals, not monsters, and should be treated as such.

Even though they are humans, they are not treated as such socially.
They are either treated as animals that can't help themselves or as evil monsters.

 

[Revoltingest]

By the way, I notice that most of the members here who don't find any victim-blaming in the mayor's comments are men.
Pass me the next batch of shocking news, please.

Oh, finally....the old sexism card being played.
(Btw, you're wrong about this claim.)
Those darn knuckle dragging men!
Did you notice that the mayor you so soundly scold is a woman?

If you have the singular rational truth here, there should be no need to resort to ad hominem arguments.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Even though they are humans, they are not treated as such socially.
They are either treated as animals that can't help themselves or as evil monsters.

And that treatment doesn't help in finding justice. I propose we change that narrative.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Oh, finally....the old sexism card being played.
Those darn knuckle dragging men!
Did you notice that the mayor you so soundly scold is a woman?

Yes, she is. Women are not impervious to being sexist against their own gender. Just look at the likes of Ann Coulter and her disparaging comments toward other women.

I'm merely pointing out an observation from this thread. So far most people in this thread who are denying the presence of victim-blaming in the comments are men.

 

[Revoltingest]

Even though they are humans, they are not treated as such socially.
They are either treated as animals that can't help themselves or as evil monsters.

I don't understand the objection to the metaphor of rapists being "monsters".

 

[Koldo]

By the way, I notice that most of the members here who don't find any victim-blaming in the mayor's comments are men.

Pass me the next batch of shocking news, please.

Now, of course, that would be a good point to talk about if we had a massive number of women commenting on this issue and if RF topics were representative of our demographics.
Since neither are the case...

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, she is. Women are not impervious to being sexist against their own gender. Just look at the likes of Ann Coulter and her disparaging comments toward other women.

I'm merely pointing out an observation from this thread. So far most people in this thread who are denying the presence of victim-blaming in the comments are men.

Even if your claim were right, why attack men, & make it about the gender of each poster?
This kind of sexism does not further civil discourse, & is a violation of Rule #1.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People with anger management issues aren't monsters per se.

Rapists aren't monsters. Rather, much like someone with anger management issues, they are human beings with violent impulses.

Is that even the kind of thing that needs to be pointed out ?

Apparently it does.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Even if your claim were right, why attack men?

I made a factual observation: most members who have posted in this thread denying that the mayor's comments implied victim-blaming are men. Not all of the members who are doing that are men, but most are.

 

[Revoltingest]

I made a factual observation: most members who have posted in this thread denying that the mayor's comments implied victim-blaming are men. Not all of the members who are doing that are men, but most are.

Your first claim is demonstrably false.
But to name posters would risk sanction.
I advise perusing the thread carefully.
Really, I expect more from staff in discussing the issues instead of the posters.
I infer your intent to simply dismiss the views of males....except when they agree with you.

Restraint is a useful thing.
We all make what we believe to be "factual observations" of others.
But we don't always express every observation because it could be hurtful,
dismissive, unproductive, derailing, or a violation of the rules & spirit of RF.

 

[Koldo]

And that treatment doesn't help in finding justice. I propose we change that narrative.

Rapists aren't monsters. Rather, much like someone with anger management issues, they are human beings with violent impulses.

Apparently it does.

My point is that the current way we, as a society, perceive rapists can explain why such is the case: "There is nothing that men are told in regards to handling urges for inappropriate sexual conduct and rape.".

 

[Debater Slayer]

Your first claim is demonstrably false.
But to name posters would risk sanction.
I advise perusing the thread carefully.
Really, I expect more from staff in discussing the issues instead of the posters.

I choose my words carefully; I didn't and won't name posters. I'm speaking in generalities here.

I infer your intent to simply dismiss the views of males....except when they agree with you.

Not really, but sometimes pointing out something like that helps put things into perspective.

 

[columbus]

What I see here is a torrent of comments that advocate sexist "preventive measures."

What I am finding dishonest is the torrent of comments conflating "Come to our party, but please exercise caution due to a problem we are having" with "victim blaming".
The attitudes evinced in this thread are why I don't want to be identified as a feminist.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

I choose my words carefully; I didn't and won't name posters. I'm speaking in generalities here.
Not really, but sometimes pointing out something like that helps put things into perspective.

Reading between the lines, I see artful sexism in demeaning the views of males simply because of gender.

 

[Revoltingest]

The attitudes evinced in this thread are why I don't want to be identified as a feminist.
Tom

Please don't go there.
They'll lock up the thread faster than haggis spoils on a sunny day.
We have an issue at hand, & it shouldn't become a war with feminism.

Hey! Nice people....don't ban me!
I'm doing the best I can with my tiny besotted brain!

 

[Debater Slayer]

What I am finding dishonest is the torrent of comments conflating "Come to our party, but please exercise caution due to a problem we are having" with "victim blaming".

That reminds me of the fundamentalist Muslims who justify their advice about "preventive measures" (see a pattern there?) by saying that women should "do what is required of them" when they are sexually assaulted. It happens a lot in my country, where most women experience or have experienced sexual harassment. This is what happens when such "advice" runs rampant in a society.

The attitudes evinced in this thread are why I don't want to be identified as a feminist.
Tom

Good for you, I guess?

 

[columbus]

Please don't go there.
They'll lock up the thread faster than haggis spoils on a sunny day.

Heaven Forbid!
I will take your advice and use extreme caution when being honest with feminists.
Tom

 

[prometheus11]

Our house was burglarized after an ice storm cut our power. Multiple households were hit too. Law enforcement never gave us advice on how-not-to-get-burglarized-again as friendly advice. They treated it as a crime, and asked if we as a neighborhood used a watch program.

"Keep an arms distance away" is condescending to rape survivors. Rather like if somebody told us and everyone else after being burglarized to move our house closer to a police station to prevent future burglaries. That's inane and condescending and should be rightfully criticized all around.

I mean, c'mon now.

So it wasn't a widespread problem perhaps affecting your neighborhood as a whole. Some of my relatives had break ins in their neighborhood and the cops held a meeting advising the neighborhood what to do.

I'm sure it was victim blaming, but you'd never have thought that from the grateful stance of the home owners at that meeting. I guess they just didn't think it through like they should have.