Mass Assault in Cologne, Mayor blames female victims ?!

[Shadow Wolf]

Can it be reasonably expected for monsters to heed advice on their conduct ?

Probably not, but as I mentioned there isn't even any advice for helping keep friends out of such situations. But, then again, we do give advice to people with things such as anger management issues, and it does help. We don't do this in regards to sexual assault. We don't even point out that groping someone on the bus or train violates their space, privacy, and body. Some places do offer counseling and drug therapy for sex offenders, and it works to reduce the rate of reoffense. We could be doing much more than telling women pointers and advice they've heard a million times already.

 

[columbus]

I can't tell if this is a joke, but regardless of whether or not it is a joke, I find it passive-aggressiv

It is called sarcasm.
Rev beat me to the punchline. I agree with him.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Can it be reasonably expected for monsters to heed advice on their conduct ?

The purpose wouldn't be to improve the behavior of the monsters
(who, as you correctly point out, won't heed the PSA), but rather
to make the victims feel better.

 

[prometheus11]

At this point I'm not sure there would be much purpose to repeating what I and others have been saying throughout this thread. I have already stated what I believe in detail.

Way to miss the point. Lol.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It's a joke....with a message about only a single view (yours) being rational.
That bespoke hubris.

Passive-aggressive?
No.....tis neither.
Directness eliminates passivity.
Sarcasm makes it friendly instead of aggressive.
I like you, you big silly!

I really loathe the assumption that all views have equal merit and that it is arrogant to claim that one's viewpoint is more rational than others' based on logic and reasoned arguments. I realize it is not always politically correct to adhere to one's stance with strong conviction, but that doesn't really matter to me.

 

[columbus]

Probably not, but as I mentioned there isn't even any advice for helping keep friends out of such situations.

If you don't even speak German, I doubt that you know everything that has been said or is being done in Cologne.
If the police are doing everything they can to find the perps and improve the safety, and the mayor is trying to be the voice of reason, I don't know what else anybody expects.
Tom

 

[Debater Slayer]

It is called sarcasm.
Rev beat me to the punchline. I agree with him.
Tom

Sarcasm is used a lot in passive-aggressive remarks. The post I was responding to struck me as an instance of such usage.

But I digress. I'm not going to derail the thread by discussing posts instead of the thread topic.

 

[Revoltingest]

I really loathe the assumption that all views have equal merit and that it is arrogant to claim that one's viewpoint is more rational than others' based on logic and reasoned arguments. I realize it is not always politically correct to adhere to one's stance with strong conviction, but that doesn't really matter to me.

If you'd actually used logic & cromulent premises, you'd have a stronger case for wielding the false equivalency fallacy.
But what you have is the mere pronouncement that all advice to victims is to blame them, & your personal inference of
the mayor's intent. This is not a strong enuf basis to claim that you have the singular inerrant truth, while branding all
other views as irrational. Strength of belief does not equal effectiveness of argument.

 

[prometheus11]

I thought the point of debate was to argue that your view is MORE meritorious than another view. That IS adherence to one's stance with strong conviction. Who would be so ridiculous as to claim all views have equal merit?!?!?

What's really funny, is when one individual simply assumes their view is correct simply because it's their view and they just declare their way is the only way. No....it's debatable. As demonstrated. By debate.

 

[Debater Slayer]

If you'd actually used logic & cromulent premises, you'd have a stronger case for wielding the false equivalency fallacy.
But what you have is the mere pronouncement that all advice to victims is to blame them, & your personal inference of
the mayor's intent. This is not a strong enuf basis to claim that you have the singular inerrant truth, while branding all
other views as irrational. Strength of belief does not equal effectiveness of argument.

I thought the point of debate was to argue that your view is MORE meritorious than another view. That IS adherence to one's stance with strong conviction. Who would be so ridiculous as to claim all views have equal merit?!?!?

What's really funny, is when one individual simply assumes their view is correct simply because it's their view and they just declare their way is the only way. No....it's debatable. As demonstrated. By debate.

Okay, for the sake of clarification: Do you believe that there is any merit to the mayor's comments about how women should adhere to a "code of conduct" to avoid sexual assault?

 

[Revoltingest]

Sarcasm is used a lot in passive-aggressive remarks. The post I was responding to struck me as an instance of such usage.
But I digress. I'm not going to derail the thread by discussing posts instead of the thread topic.

Irony:
Get in one final dig with the repeated "passive-aggressive" accusation
before bowing out with the proffered desire to avoid derailment.

If we really don't want a line of discussion to derail, then
the trick is to state that without embedding further derailment.

 

[prometheus11]

If you don't even speak German, I doubt that you know everything that has been said or is being done in Cologne.
If the police are doing everything they can to find the perps and improve the safety, and the mayor is trying to be the voice of reason, I don't know what else anybody expects.
Tom

Ironically, if the mayor had said, "Hey, we are trying to catch these horrible criminals, but they target women, so women....good luck out there!" nobody could irrationally claim victim blaming as they irrationally claim it, now.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Irony:
Get in one final dig with the repeated "passive-aggressive" accusation
before bowing out with the proffered desire to avoid derailment.

If the shoe doesn't fit, one doesn't need to worry about wearing it. If it does... well, too bad.

 

[Koldo]

Probably not, but as I mentioned there isn't even any advice for helping keep friends out of such situations. But, then again, we do give advice to people with things such as anger management issues, and it does help. We don't do this in regards to sexual assault.

People with anger management issues aren't monsters per se.

We don't even point out that groping someone on the bus or train violates their space, privacy, and body.

Is that even the kind of thing that needs to be pointed out ?

 

[columbus]

"Those drunken bimbos on New Years Eve brought this on themselves. First they invite a bunch of filthy diaper heads to our nice clean city. Then they parade around at night like hookers. What do they expect?"
That is victim blaming. And you can bet that this is being said around Germany. What the mayor said isn't even close.
Tom

 

[prometheus11]

Okay, for the sake of clarification: Do you believe that there is any merit to the mayor's comments about how women should adhere to a "code of conduct" to avoid sexual assault?

Please provide a quotation of hers for my consideration on this matter.

Are you suggesting that advice on being a little safer with other friends and being a little safer by not getting within a knife's reach of strangers....to citizens...isn't actually a warning but an attempt to blame victims from a previous event?

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay, for the sake of clarification: Do you believe that there is any merit to the mayor's comments about how women should adhere to a "code of conduct" to avoid sexual assault?

I say.....
There is merit in advising women (& everyone) how to avoid being victimized.
There is a time to do this, which is as soon as the threat is known.
The mayor's advice bothers me because.....
- To call it a "code of conduct" (if this is an accurate translation from German) suggests governmental imposition upon citizens.
- The advice offered (what I've seen of it) is inapplicable to the venues where the problem is worst.

Note:
I know just enuf German to often spot English subtitles which don't match the spoken German.
But I know too little to translate accurately.
This leaves me with less than full confidence in what is said of the mayor's statements.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

People with anger management issues aren't monsters per se.



Is that even the kind of thing that needs to be pointed out ?

Rapists are criminals, not monsters, and should be treated as such.

 

[Revoltingest]

If the shoe doesn't fit, one doesn't need to worry about wearing it. If it does... well, too bad.

Say whuh?
I'm actually barefoot at the moment.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Please provide a quotation of hers for my consideration on this matter.

Are you suggesting that advice on being a little safer with other friends and being a little safer by not getting within a knife's reach of strangers....to citizens...isn't actually a warning but an attempt to blame victims from a previous event?

Our house was burglarized after an ice storm cut our power. Multiple households were hit too. Law enforcement never gave us advice on how-not-to-get-burglarized-again as friendly advice. They treated it as a crime, and asked if we as a neighborhood used a watch program.

"Keep an arms distance away" is condescending to rape survivors. Rather like if somebody told us and everyone else after being burglarized to move our house closer to a police station to prevent future burglaries. That's inane and condescending and should be rightfully criticized all around.

I mean, c'mon now.