Maybe I don't want to be a Christian any more

[MysticPhD]

Do you think spirituality and worship can be measured by our love for God in Spirit and in truth? Apart from a deep love for God, we are unable to love others in the way God calls us to love others. I think the crippling effect of mankind as a whole is that we truly love "self" over and above our love for God. It seems this Forum Site is justifying my personal right to create God into any way that "I" want Him to be; therefore, my personal image of God can serve me. That is self-esteem and the manifestation of the pride of men. Mankind really doesn't want to know and worship the One True God, because mankind wants to be on the throne to rule and reign. The golden calf is alive and well in the 21st century (IMO).

It has nothing to do with creating my own God . . . Jesus is my God . . . not the descriptions of Yahweh and Jehovah of our primitive ancestors. If I thought for one minute that Yahweh or Jehovah were accurate portrayals of God . . . I would have nothing to do with such a God. THANK GOD for JESUS! Through Jesus's eyes I see the true Yahweh and Jehovah in the OT.

 

[challupa]

I'm sorry . . . I took a brief hiatus from posting. I am quite certain that there are negative consequences for failure to develop our spirituality in "love of God and each other." The ambiguity in scripture leaves little room for definitive answers about what that might be or what its duration is. I have my view . . . but it is less certain than most of my other views. It is hard to reconcile God being all in all and coming to save all . . . with God's failure to do so.

I think no one knows. That is why it seems so silly for people like CP to state in absolute terms what will happen. Just my opinion.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

It has nothing to do with creating my own God . . . Jesus is my God . . . not the descriptions of Yahweh and Jehovah of our primitive ancestors. If I thought for one minute that Yahweh or Jehovah were accurate portrayals of God . . . I would have nothing to do with such a God. THANK GOD for JESUS! Through Jesus's eyes I see the true Yahweh and Jehovah in the OT.

Okay, how is your Jesus the same or different than the Jesus revealed in all of Scripture? What is your view of the Holy Bible? Did you know that Jesus and His disciples quoted the OT Scriptures as being God-breathed and authoratively?

 

[J Bryson]

Okay, how is your Jesus the same or different than the Jesus revealed in all of Scripture? What is your view of the Holy Bible? Did you know that Jesus and His disciples quoted the OT Scriptures as being God-breathed and authoratively?

Oh, this should be fun to watch. Anyone have some popcorn?

 

[MysticPhD]

The true nature of God is revealed equally in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. You will find pictures,types, and foreshadows of the person and work of Christ starting from Genesis 3, and all through the OT. The NT is full of quotes of the OT. The wrath of God and judgment was a major theme for Jesus and His disciples throughout the NT. What do you think the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ is all about? Please consider the message of the forerunner of Jesus Christ.

The entire history of Judaism was filled with images and expectations of a mighty wrathful God striking fear into enemies and believers alike . . . smiting armies, killing firstborns, ordering genocide, rape, and pillage, etc. The early primitive ancestors required fear as a motivator to learn self-control. There was no such thing. The Jews were fully expecting their Messiah to be this all-powerful smiter. They got Jesus . . . a supreme disappointment and they rejected Him (predictably as in the scriptures).

This erroneous understanding of the nature of God was WHY Jesus was necessary. He didn't just come to correct a few hundred added prohibitions by the Pharisees to Jewish sacrifices and practices! Jesus came to provide the clearest possible example of the TRUE NATURE of God. It is a testimony to the power of human wrath and vengeance that even today so many STILL believe it . . . despite Jesus's clear example and teachings. The negative consequences are real . . . but the description of them as products of God's wrath and vengeance is NOT. You might just as well consider the consequences of your failure to abide by the law of gravity and stepping off a 12 story building as a punishment from God. Gravity is one of His laws too!

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Oh, this should be fun to watch. Anyone have some popcorn?

LOL... For the record, I am not a Fundamentalist, but I am an Evangelical Christian in the historic definition of the word. I don't believe that God is a Republican, and I do not like the Moral Majority Fundamentalist movement which I find to be very unbiblical in many many areas. The Jerry Fallwell, Pat Roberson, James Dobson gang do not necesarily represent biblical Christianity in many ways.

 

[J Bryson]

LOL... For the record, I am not a Fundamentalist, but I am an Evangelical Christian in the historic definition of the word. I don't believe that God is a Republican, and I do not like the Moral Majority Fundamentalist movement which I find to be very unbiblical in many many areas. The Jerry Fallwell, Pat Roberson, James Dobson gang do not necesarily represent biblical Christianity in many ways.

Haven't labeled you as being any flavor of Christianity but your own. Please do go on; don't let me distract you.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

The entire history of Judaism was filled with images and expectations of a mighty wrathful God striking fear into enemies and believers alike . . . smiting armies, killing firstborns, ordering genocide, rape, and pillage, etc. The early primitive ancestors required fear as a motivator to learn self-control. There was no such thing. The Jews were fully expecting their Messiah to be this all-powerful smiter. They got Jesus . . . a supreme disappointment and they rejected Him (predictably as in the scriptures).

This erroneous understanding of the nature of God was WHY Jesus was necessary. He didn't just come to correct a few hundred added prohibitions by the Pharisees to Jewish sacrifices and practices! Jesus came to provide the clearest possible example of the TRUE NATURE of God. It is a testimony to the power of human wrath and vengeance that even today so many STILL believe it . . . despite Jesus's clear example and teachings. The negative consequences are real . . . but the description of them as products of God's wrath and vengeance is NOT. You might just as well consider the consequences of your failure to abide by the law of gravity and stepping off a 12 story building as a punishment from God. Gravity is one of His laws too!

What is your view on the biblical word of propitiation? What was poured out on the cross upon Jesus?


Isaiah 53
Who has believed what he has heard from us?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is my personal observation about Katzpur. I find her to be so like minded in fellowship with nonbelievers in Christ on this site, I find it strange as a professing Christian. On the other hand, I find Katz to be quite hostile to biblical Christians on this site. Of course, this is my personal opinion and observation which is fallible. We all know Katz does not hold my opinions to be of any value. She is quite hostile to me on a consistent basis. It's interesting to watch Muslims, Athesists, Hindus, and other non-Christians who come to her defense when she battles biblical Christians.

I personally think that Katzpur attracts support because she is a kind and decent person who treats others with respect. This is self-evident to me and presumably to other members here of many denominations, Christian and non-Christian. Why it's not evident to you and the people you call "biblical Christians", I don't know.

 

[J Bryson]

Good Lord, I just figured it out.

Katzpur is the Good Samaritan.

Luke 10:30-37 Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, ‘Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.’ Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?" He said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."

I'll go ahead and keep my guesses private regarding who the priest and the Levite represent.

 

[challupa]

Good Lord, I just figured it out.

Katzpur is the Good Samaritan.

Yes, I like that analogy!

 

[MysticPhD]

What is your view on the biblical word of propitiation? What was poured out on the cross upon Jesus?

I see it more as redemption (fulfilling a promise) by accommodation (allowing us morons to crucify Him) as prophesy predicted.

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

This is the mistaken interpretation . . . (emphasis on the "we.") We decided that it must be from God. In that era everything was from God . . . which is why cripples and deformed people were maltreated and despised. They didn't want to be kinder to them than God was. (I know . . hard to comprehend for a modern developed soul)

But he was wounded for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

The word for has more than one connotation . . . the one meant here is "because of" . . ."over" . . . " as a consequence of." MEN did the condemning, scourging, and crucifying . . . NOT God. Just because Jesus, God and the prophets KNEW it would happen doesn't mean God demanded it. It was unavoidable if Jesus was to prove conclusively the TRUE NATURE of God by not smiting anyone . . . because "they know not what they do." There is a version of Judas's motivations that alludes to the fact that he fervently believed as the majority of Jews did that the Messiah was this powerful God of their heritage. He thought that Jesus would be forced to display His almighty power if caught and tortured . . . an interesting take.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.

This is the proof of God's true love and nature, period . . . not the wrathfulYahweh.

Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

More of the prevalent "God did it!" mentality.

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors

This is a portent of Jesus's rebirth as Spirit (resurrection) to bring His Holy Spirit (Ghost) to ALL mankind as guide and comforter. John 7:39 (King James Version)

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 1:2 (King James Version)

Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:8 (King James Version)

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:

Acts 2:38-39 (King James Version)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

The physical-minded (carnal among us) still cling to a bodily resurrection . . . but Jesus was clear to Nicodemus, Nicodemus asked: "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born again?" Jesus answered, John 3:4

. . . I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. Do not wonder that I said to thee, 'You must be born again.[Emphasis added]

and, John 3:8

. . . The wind blows where it will, and thou herest its sound but dost not know where it comes from or where it goes.So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.[Emphasis added]

It never ceases to amaze me how the ingenuity of humankind can take this and consider it to be something that happens while still in a physical body. I haven't seen too many "wind-like" physical bodies . . . maybe Superman.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I personally think that Katzpur attracts support because she is a kind and decent person who treats others with respect. This is self-evident to me and presumably to other members here of many denominations, Christian and non-Christian. Why it's not evident to you and the people you call "biblical Christians", I don't know.

IMO -
I am thankful that you guys love and support katzpur. I like her as a person, even though she does not like me as a person. Our theological views divide us as professing Christians, which really cannot be reconciled in doctrine. Heck, Mormonism considers me to be an apostate Christian. Katzpur and Ican still be friends, but she is unable to seperate our faith from us as being people. If I understand katzpur's theology driven by Mormon Christianity, she sees non-believers to be children of God without personal faith in Jesus Christ. In my theology, everyone is born into this world as children of the devil, children of wrath, children of darkness, children of disobedience, and children of eternal destruction... who are all headed for the wrath of God, coming Day of Judgment and eternal punishment for their continual sin and rebellion against God. The only escape from this terrible reality is found in the peson and work of Jesus Christ through faith alone. Therefore, my theology requires that all mankind are commanded to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for reconciliation with God, peace with God, and adoption into the family of God to escape the coming day of wrath and judgment. I kind of see Biblical Christians as a modern day Noah. The worldwide flood is coming to destroy rebellious mankind for their sins; therefore come into the ark for escape. The ark is a picture of Jesus Christ.

In my worldview, there is no hope and a future without personal faith and trust in the biblical Jesus Christ. I speak what I consider to be the truth in love. In my worldview, it would be the most unkind and unloving act to not warn unbelievers about the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ which will result in the wrath of God and eternal punishment for those who are not found united to Jesus Christ by faith alone. So, it's not that I do not love the unbeliever. I love the unbeliever by sharing the truth in love. Check out this verse recorded to be the teaching from Jesus Himself.

“Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire. -

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew recorded the words of Jesus

Paul Addresses the Areopagus

So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, ‘To the unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for
“‘In him we live and move and have our being’;

as even some of your own poets have said,
“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.” So Paul went out from their midst. But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them. - The Book of Acts, chapter 17

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am thankful that you guys love and support katzpur. I like her as a person, even though she does not like me as a person. Our theological views divide us as professing Christians, which really cannot be reconciled in doctrine. We can still be friends. If I understand katzpur's theology driven by Mormon Christianity she sees non-believers to be children of God without personal faith in Jesus Christ. In my theology, everyone is born into this world as children of the devil, children of wrath, children of disobedience, and children of eternal destruction who are all headed for the wrath of God, coming Day of Judgment and eternal punishment for their continual sin and rebellion against God without faith in Jesus Christ. Therefore, my theology requires that all mankind are commanded to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for reconciliation with God, peace with God, and adoption into the family of God to escape the coming day of wrath and judgment.

Yes, it apparently requires a cruel, arbitrary God.

In my worldview, there is no hope without personal faith and trust in the biblical Jesus Christ.

What a very limiting worldview. It rejects all the value and hope that I personally consider to be self-evident around us.

I speak what I consider to be the truth in love. In my worldview, it would be the unkind and unloving act to not warn unbelievers for the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ which will result in the wrath of God and eternal punishment for those who are found united to Jesus Christ.

It would be an unkind and unloving act to trust in a supposedly almighty God to accomplish His stated goal?

So, it's not that I do not love the unbeliever. I love the unbeliever by sharing the truth in love. Check out this verse recorded to be the teaching from Jesus Himself.

I fail to see how that passage is relevant.

 

[ChristineES]

In my theology, we are born in flesh. Flesh that is weak and open to hunger, thirst, and other things. Our flesh is what separates us from God because of the temptations we fall into. Jesus came to help men and women find their way back to God, despite that weakness. I don't think we are children of the devil, and that is what we differ on in doctrine.
I think that teaching people is better than telling them they are evil. I think compassion does more good that condemning. We can't give the message to people in hostility or they will react (more than likely) in hostility.

Following is also said by Jesus and it is taught with kindness and to nonbelievers in Him:

Mat 5:2 And He opened His mouth and taught them, saying,
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit! For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn! For they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek! For they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness! For they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful! For they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart! For they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers! For they shall be called the sons of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they who have been persecuted for righteousness sake! For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for My sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for your reward in Heaven is great. For so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Mat 5:13 You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its savor, with what shall it be salted? It is no longer good for anything, but to be thrown out and to be trodden underfoot by men.
Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 Nor do men light a lamp and put it under the grain-measure, but on a lampstand. And it gives light to all who are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in Heaven.

 

[MysticPhD]

Therefore, my theology requires that all mankind are commanded to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for reconciliation with God, peace with God, and adoption into the family of God to escape the coming day of wrath and judgment.

I can only repeat my earlier view . . . an all-loving, all-knowing, all-understanding God is incapable of the weaknesses of the human ego reflected in wrath, vengeance, jealousy or any of the other negative human emotions we are plagued by. There may indeed be negative consequences ahead . . . but they are no more a result of wrath and vengeance or punishment than my gravity illustration earlier . . . just our stupidity or failures.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

In my theology, we are born in flesh. Flesh that is weak and open to hunger, thirst, and other things. Our flesh is what separates us from God because of the temptations we fall into. Jesus came to help men and women find their way back to God, despite that weakness. I don't think we are children of the devil, and that is what we differ on in doctrine.
I think that teaching people is better than telling them they are evil. I think compassion does more good that condemning. We can't give the message to people in hostility or they will react (more than likely) in hostility.

Christine, it's very important to take all of Scripture to come to a conclusion on issues. All Scripture is God-Breathed. Did you know that Jesus called His disciples evil? A person must be born again to understand these things according to Jesus.

Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith

2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body [1] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But [2] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 6:14
The Temple of the Living God
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8
for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

1 John 3

3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears [1] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's [2] seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

You Are of Your Father the Devil

39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.” 42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, [2] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— Rom 9

Mat 5:11 Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for your reward in Heaven is great. For so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

1 Thessalonians 5
The Day of the Lord

5:1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, [1] you have no need to have anything written to you. 2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. 5 For you are all children [2] of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

 

[ChristineES]

Those are great verses, CP, and you truly have good knowledge of The Word, but can you explain to me what they mean to you?

Here is a verse from Matthew:
Mat 9:13 But go and learn what this is, I will have mercy and not sacrifice. For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I interpret it this way: that Jesus came to the sinners, to teach them. And he said he has mercy and not sacrifice. Mercy is a kindness.

 

[DallasApple]

Im sort of perplexed.."we are born" as children of "the devil"?

I thought we were created in Gods image..that we are Gods children.And the devil was a fallen angel (not human like us)that was jealous of us and God cast him out of heaven.

Hmm..this is the first I have learned that we are all satans spawn clamoring our way back into Gods favor..

How awful..

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

In my theology, everyone is born into this world as children of the devil,

This is not my understanding in "my theology"..Thank God.

Love

Dallas