Maybe I don't want to be a Christian any more

[DallasApple]

In my theology, everyone is born into this world as children of the devil,

How do you explain the Lords prayer then..the one Jesus taught us to say..

It starts with "our Father who art in Heaven"..

So if we are the "devils children" when we pray to "our Father" we are praying to Satan?

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Christianity is about Jesus Christ and not about His people.

This one also throws me for a loop..WE the people are his BRIDE..WE the people are His church..It is certainly about us.He wouldnt have come here otherwise..there would have been no need..

Love

Dallas

 

[J Bryson]

How do you explain the Lords prayer then..the one Jesus taught us to say..

It starts with "our Father who art in Heaven"..

So if we are the "devils children" when we pray to "our Father" we are praying to Satan?

Love

Dallas

Not only that, it assumes that the devil is in heaven.

 

[DallasApple]

Not only that, it assumes that the devil is in heaven.

I know..last I heard he was in hell.(lucifer..cast down)



Why arent we saying ..

Our Father who art in hell fire and damnation...hallow be thy name!

Love

Dallas

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

This one also throws me for a loop..WE the people are his BRIDE..WE the people are His church..It is certainly about us.He wouldnt have come here otherwise..there would have been no need..

Love

Dallas

I have to disagree my dear sister in Christ. God does everything for His own glory and His own name sake first and forremost. The gospel is a manifestation of His glory. How did God demonstrate His love for us? Here is a verse that I want you to meditate on, okay? The problem with modern day Christianity is that we made it a man-centered Christianity, but in reality, we should worship God in a God-centered perspective. God created all things for His own glory to worship and praise Him. Why have we turned this around, and almost made a Christian God to serve and worship us?

The Light of the Gospel

Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart. But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. - 2 Cor 4

 

[sojourner]

In my theology, everyone is born into this world as children of the devil

Hmmm... doesn't seem to jive with the Biblical message.

I have to disagree my dear sister in Christ. God does everything for His own glory and His own name sake first and forremost

It's all about relationship. The Church, as was correctly stated, is the Bride of Christ. More than that, we are the Body of Christ. If Xy isn't for the followers (Whom Christ said are the "light of the world,") then what good is it, for the Church is the people. God is glorified through the love relationship that we build with Christ and with each other.

 

[J Bryson]

Yes, quite a bit of what I'm hearing here makes God sound like a dysfunctional sadist. It's like an atheistic parody of Christianity.

 

[DallasApple]

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. - Jesus

O.K I'll meditate on that.

Except I already have..and I know what it means to me.

The narrow gate is...

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Narrow gate...

1 Corinthians 13

Love

1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Thats pretty narrow..and it isnt easy for most people.Im trying ..

Love

Dallas

 

[J Bryson]

O.K I'll meditate on that.

Except I already have..and I know what it means to me.

The narrow gate is...





Narrow gate...



Thats pretty narrow..and it isnt easy for most people.Im trying ..

Love

Dallas

Thank you. That's all that can be said.

 

[DallasApple]

Thank you. That's all that can be said.

Your welcome Peanut..

Love

Dallas

 

[challupa]

I have to disagree my dear sister in Christ. God does everything for His own glory and His own name sake first and forremost. The gospel is a manifestation of His glory. How did God demonstrate His love for us? Here is a verse that I want you to meditate on, okay? The problem with modern day Christianity is that we made it a man-centered Christianity, but in reality, we should worship God in a God-centered perspective. God created all things for His own glory to worship and praise Him. Why have we turned this around, and almost made a Christian God to serve and worship us?

The Light of the Gospel

Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart. But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. - 2 Cor 4

Sorry but I have to disagree that it's all about God. Without us God would have no one to command, he would have no one to worship him and on and on. It is a relationship. Without us, God would have none of the things you think he seems to need.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Sorry but I have to disagree that it's all about God. Without us God would have no one to command, he would have no one to worship him and on and on. It is a relationship. Without us, God would have none of the things you think he seems to need.

It's okay to disagree with God. However, I believe God over man because I know God cannot lie.

24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." 32When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject." 33At that, Paul left the Council. 34A few men became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others. - Acts 17

BTW, do you like Basketball. I noticed your screen name!

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Therefore since we are God's offspring,. . . "

I thought you said we were children of the devil.

What happened? You find some other birth certificate?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

As a matter of fact - you did. #293.

Do try to keep the content of your posts in mind. A trying task I know but it would avoid your embarrassment.

Just FYI

 

[Enoch07]

The older -- and wiser -- I get, and the more I hang out on RF, the more convinced I am that I don't really care whether I'm known as a Christian or not. As a matter of fact, more and more all the time, I'm starting to want to distance myself from people who call themselves "Christians." I'm beginning to understand why non-Christians are so turned off by Christians and by the doctrines they profess. It has taken me a long time to admit this. No one who truly believes in Jesus Christ and worships Him as his Savior and Redeemer wants to be told that He isn't a Christian. That's why we Latter-day Saints get so defensive when we're accused of not being Christians. If we say, "You're wrong. We are Christians," we are forced to defend ourselves against slanderous remarks. If we say, "You're right. We're not Christians," it's as if we have denied everything we stand for.

But who are we really denying it to? I don't need to fall into a man-made category of some kind in order for Jesus Christ to recognize me as His follower. I am just about ready to simply back off and stop trying to be accepted into the club. I don't want to be thought of as a Christian when most of the people who call themselves Christians are so unpleasant and judgmental. I don't want to be associated with them in any way. I'm a Latter-day Saint. I'm a Mormon. I love my Savior with all my heart and believe that when I stand before Him, He will welcome me with open arms, along with my brothers and sisters of all religious (and non-religious) persuasions. Don't even bother referring to me as a Christian (real or fake) any more because I want nothing to do with the Christianity I see all around me.

Katz stick to your guns in whatever you believe. Not a single person here has the right to deny your beliefs. The point of life is to find a lifestyle that makes you happy and if someone else does not like it tough deuce. You should know by now 90% of the idiots here on these forums are just losers looking for a giggle, because their own life sucks so bad they have nothing else to do.

 

[challupa]

It's okay to disagree with God. However, I believe God over man because I know God cannot lie.

24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." 32When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject." 33At that, Paul left the Council. 34A few men became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others. - Acts 17

BTW, do you like Basketball. I noticed your screen name!

I wasn't disagreeing with God, I was disagreeing with what you said about God. I think if there is a God then there is definitely a relationship between him and his creation. He wants to be worshiped and we want to survive so we do. It's a bit co-dependent, but if you really think about it, without us, who would worship God the way he wants?

 

[MysticPhD]

I have to disagree my dear sister in Christ. God does everything for His own glory and His own name sake first and forremost. The gospel is a manifestation of His glory.

I tire of this vainglorious misunderstanding of God using human ego needs as the rationale. God IS glory . . . there is NOTHING we pitiful creatures can do to add to or detract from it!! Only human ego and arrogance would assume ANYTHING we did could affect the Glory of God! God loves us because WE NEED the help to mature properly (as do ALL children) and everything that is done is toward that end . . . helping us to mature spiritually. Worship focuses our mind and hearts on love of God and each other. It is for US . . . not God.

 

[ayani]

well, a Christian is simply a Christ-follower.

the main issue between Christians the CoJCoLDS is Joseph Smith. whether or not it is wise or good to follow him, believe that God called him, and whether God wants others to recognize him, too.

and from Joseph Smith, the books, ideas, theology, and teachings which make the CoJCoLDS what it is today, something unique and a body often not recognized as Christian.

the issue is whether one can follow Jesus Christ and also follow Joseph Smith. if God did not send him or speak through him, then no. if what Smith demonstrated and taught is contrary to what God's Son has taught and demonstrated as we read in the Gospels, then no. and if Jesus truly is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and the only One necessary for one's salvation and reconciliation to God, then no.

i've heard many LDS argue that the church one belongs to matters a lot, and that the LDS church is the only one in existence to restore the proper priestly order and theological truths which God approves of and has ordained to the world via itself. one LDS i've talked to comapres the ides to the Roman Catholic belief that it alone is the True Church based on apostolic succession.

but the idea that one is saved through a church is a contested one, protested by many Christians, who would argue that it's not a church body, line of human succession, or set of doctrines which save a person- it's God's Son.

so the issue comes down to, essentially, whether or not one can really follow Joseph Smith and also follow the Jesus of the Gospels. whether God truly called him, and truly expresses His nature and will through the teachings, scriptures, and hierarchy of the LDS church.

The older -- and wiser -- I get, and the more I hang out on RF, the more convinced I am that I don't really care whether I'm known as a Christian or not. As a matter of fact, more and more all the time, I'm starting to want to distance myself from people who call themselves "Christians." I'm beginning to understand why non-Christians are so turned off by Christians and by the doctrines they profess. It has taken me a long time to admit this. No one who truly believes in Jesus Christ and worships Him as his Savior and Redeemer wants to be told that He isn't a Christian. That's why we Latter-day Saints get so defensive when we're accused of not being Christians. If we say, "You're wrong. We are Christians," we are forced to defend ourselves against slanderous remarks. If we say, "You're right. We're not Christians," it's as if we have denied everything we stand for.

But who are we really denying it to? I don't need to fall into a man-made category of some kind in order for Jesus Christ to recognize me as His follower. I am just about ready to simply back off and stop trying to be accepted into the club. I don't want to be thought of as a Christian when most of the people who call themselves Christians are so unpleasant and judgmental. I don't want to be associated with them in any way. I'm a Latter-day Saint. I'm a Mormon. I love my Savior with all my heart and believe that when I stand before Him, He will welcome me with open arms, along with my brothers and sisters of all religious (and non-religious) persuasions. Don't even bother referring to me as a Christian (real or fake) any more because I want nothing to do with the Christianity I see all around me.

 

[Katzpur]

well, a Christian is simply a Christ-follower.

Not according to everything else you said in your post.

 

[Katzpur]

And what about Katzpur, when she realised (has she?) that this was turning into a lets give CP a go thread, she did not stop it. WHY?

Why did I not stop it? You've got to be kidding. Since when did I become a moderator again? I did not start this thread with any one person in mind, and I did not name names until CP/FH showed up and started proselytizing. I did not start this thread so that everybody could say, "Oh poor little Kitty. Are all the Christians being mean to you again?" I started this thread because I think Mohandas Gandhi made a very good point when he said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

I did not at any time encourage anyone to single out CP/FH or anyone else, but it is NOT MY JOB to tell people what they can or cannot post.