Men in the West are dressed in full; women are dressed half , quarter or less

[FearGod]

If you believe that all Muslims women wear hijab by free will, I have a dozen acres of prime, lakefront property to sell you. Undoubtedly there are some, but surely not all.

How you explain many muslim converts wearing hijab in western countries,are they forced to do so,or they did it with conviction.

Show me one verse in quran that we should use force to order women to wear hijab.


Many muslim countries have no problem with women wearing the dress according to their choices and IMO that has nothing to do with women's religion,but just to strength their own faith like what we can see with sisters (nuns)

pictures are better than words, watch the video (arabic singer)

[youtube]ARjpdnycd04[/youtube]
Myriam Fares - Ana Wel Shou' /

 

[paarsurrey]

Are you saying people divorce over clothing? Are you implying that marriages would be happier and healthier if women were forced to dress like ninjas?

Why did human beings start wearing clothes/dresses?

 

[beenie]

How you explain many muslim converts wearing hijab in western countries,are they forced to do so,or they did it with conviction.

Show me one verse in quran that we should use force to order women to wear hijab.


Many muslim countries have no problem with women wearing the dress according to their choices and IMO that has nothing to do with women's religion,but just to strength their own faith like what we can see with sisters (nuns)

pictures are better than words, watch the video (arabic singer)

I'm going to try this one more time:

I'm 100% sure there are SOME women who CHOOSE to wear hijab. I am 100% sure there are MANY women who feel FORCED to wear hijab...either by their government, family, friends, or their local imam/shaykh, etc.

I've been down this road myself, and I know many hijabis who had hijab pounded down their throats so often, they were convinced they'd go to hell if they don't wear it. That doesn't sound like "choice" to me. Indoctrination through fear and threats of eternal damnation certainly take the "choice" away from women. Don't forget that women are also told that it's OUR responsibility to keep the gazes of men at bay. If a man looks/approaches/touches, and even rapes a woman...well, what was SHE wearing? Where was HER hijab?

Do you see the cycle here? I can guarantee you, if women were told that hijab isn't an absolute requirement, and eternal damnation wasn't a threat, a huge amount of them would remove their scarves.

 

[FearGod]

I'm going to try this one more time:

I'm 100% sure there are SOME women who CHOOSE to wear hijab. I am 100% sure there are MANY women who feel FORCED to wear hijab...either by their government, family, friends, or their local imam/shaykh, etc.

I've been down this road myself, and I know many hijabis who had hijab pounded down their throats so often, they were convinced they'd go to hell if they don't wear it. That doesn't sound like "choice" to me. Indoctrination through fear and threats of eternal damnation certainly take the "choice" away from women. Don't forget that women are also told that it's OUR responsibility to keep the gazes of men at bay. If a man looks/approaches/touches, and even rapes a woman...well, what was SHE wearing? Where was HER hijab?

Do you see the cycle here? I can guarantee you, if women were told that hijab isn't an absolute requirement, and eternal damnation wasn't a threat, a huge amount of them would remove their scarves.

but god never asked us to use force against woman for wearing hijab,the quran didn't ever mentioned it in such way.

But IMO,if we represent women's decency of wearing by a gauge with 0 value representing the lowest decent wearing as to be naked and the highest decent wearing represent the number 100 as to be hijab,it make sense to me.

 

[beenie]

but god never asked us to use force against woman for wearing hijab,the quran didn't ever mentioned it in such way.

Please tell that to all the scholars around the world and to the religious police in KSA that disagree with you.

But IMO,if we represent women's decency of wearing by a gauge with 0 value representing the lowest decent wearing as to be naked and the highest decent wearing represent the number 100 as to be hijab,it make sense to me.

You don't see anything in the middle? It's either naked or hijab? :sarcastic

Can't a woman be "decent" in whatever she feels comfortable with?

 

[painted wolf]

Why did human beings start wearing clothes/dresses?

Because getting sand in your crotch sucks. And it get's pretty cold outside the tropics.

Humans native to the tropics tend to not wear much (if any) clothing at all.

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

but god never asked us to use force against woman for wearing hijab,the quran didn't ever mentioned it in such way.

Doesn't matter, muslim women are forced (sometimes brutally) into wearing them. Doesn't matter if god said to do it or not, it happens.
Just like you are pushing it as the "highest" form of decency.

But IMO,if we represent women's decency of wearing by a gauge with 0 value representing the lowest decent wearing as to be naked and the highest decent wearing represent the number 100 as to be hijab,it make sense to me.

Might as well be extra sure and toss her in a Burka.

If a hijab is decent then a burka must be super duper!

wa:do

 

[Debater Slayer]

but god never asked us to use force against woman for wearing hijab,the quran didn't ever mentioned it in such way.

But IMO,if we represent women's decency of wearing by a gauge with 0 value representing the lowest decent wearing as to be naked and the highest decent wearing represent the number 100 as to be hijab,it make sense to me.

There's a difference between coercion that is endorsed 'de jure' and that which is endorsed 'de facto'. As it happens, the force used against women to coerce them into wearing certain types of clothing is endorsed de facto, so the problem still exists regardless of whether or not it is actually condoned in scripture.

And I think the second part of your post dovetails with the "de facto" part: because some societies at large stigmatize and view women who don't adhere to certain clothing styles as "immodest," "indecent," or other similar labels, a lot of women's families force them to conform to the cultural and societal norms of dress code as to avoid being "disgraced." It is the same kind of "honor"-protection mentality that was used as an excuse to exclude girls from education in past decades (and sadly, in some parts of the world today).

 

[FearGod]

Please tell that to all the scholars around the world and to the religious police in KSA that disagree with you.

Yes the problem is with some scholars and not all scholars as you claim.

You don't see anything in the middle? It's either naked or hijab? :sarcastic

Can't a woman be "decent" in whatever she feels comfortable with?

i didn't mention women's decency but its wearing,such as to say its shameful to walk naked.

the gauge can be 0 as naked ,50 as good and 100 as excellent.
in between doesn't need explanation,still there is less than 50 and over 50.

 

[Falvlun]

the gauge can be 0 as naked ,50 as good and 100 as excellent.
in between doesn't need explanation,still there is less than 50 and over 50.

You do realize that that gauge would, necessarily, be completely arbitrary, right?
In some island cultures, women don't wear tops. Do you think that within their culture, that is seen as less than excellent?

You can't even use words such as "good" and "excellent" do describe levels of nakedness because that automatically indicates your bias. Your scale would, more correctly, be naked --> some clothes --> more clothes. Any value designation you place on it is simply opinion, and hardly objective.

 

[beenie]

Yes the problem is with some scholars and not all scholars as you claim.

Unfortunately, those scholars are the loudest, and out of convenience to the men, the most revered as well.

i didn't mention women's decency but its wearing,such as to say its shameful to walk naked.

the gauge can be 0 as naked ,50 as good and 100 as excellent.
in between doesn't need explanation,still there is less than 50 and over 50.

The idea of ranking women's decency based on clothing is beyond silly. Talk about objectifying women.

 

[FearGod]

You do realize that that gauge would, necessarily, be completely arbitrary, right?
In some island cultures, women don't wear tops. Do you think that within their culture, that is seen as less than excellent?

You can't even use words such as "good" and "excellent" do describe levels of nakedness because that automatically indicates your bias. Your scale would, more correctly, be naked --> some clothes --> more clothes. Any value designation you place on it is simply opinion, and hardly objective.

i think all agree that a naked woman showing the tops poops and down ...... will be offensive,so a bikini is better than none and the scale goes on till perfection,just my opinion,maybe others will see it in different ways.

 

[Debater Slayer]

i think all agree that a naked woman showing the tops poops and down ...... will be offensive,so a bikini is better than none and the scale goes on till perfection,just my opinion,maybe others will see it in different ways.

"Perfection" is subjective, and no, I don't think everyone everywhere in the world agrees that nudity is immoral. There are nude beaches in several countries in the world, and obviously the people who go there don't view nudity as immoral.

 

[FearGod]

Unfortunately, those scholars are the loudest, and out of convenience to the men, the most revered as well.



The idea of ranking women's decency based on clothing is beyond silly. Talk about objectifying women.

i didn't ever say women's decency but i am saying about the decency of wearings,please don't put words in my mouth.

Do you think walking in the market naked without any piece of cloth is a decent thing.

 

[FearGod]

"Perfection" is subjective, and no, I don't think everyone everywhere in the world agrees that nudity is immoral. There are nude beaches in several countries in the world, and obviously the people who go there don't view nudity as immoral.

We are talking in general,such as going to the grocery naked and not nude clubs.

 

[Debater Slayer]

We are talking in general,such as going to the grocery naked and not nude clubs.

I'd say that the vast majority would view that as inappropriate, or at the very least 'awkward', but that doesn't mean that all people see it the same way. There are always going to be outliers.

 

[FearGod]

I'd say that the vast majority would view that as inappropriate, or at the very least 'awkward', but that doesn't mean that all people see it the same way. There are always going to be outliers.

Yes some will see it as exiting & enjoyable normal thing.


[youtube]HaYWGwHIQYU[/youtube]
Sili News - YouTube

 

[beenie]

i didn't ever say women's decency but i am saying about the decency of wearings,please don't put words in my mouth.

Do you think walking in the market naked without any piece of cloth is a decent thing.

Can you explain the difference between the decency of the woman and the decency of her clothing as viewed by the majority of Muslims? What would they think of a fellow Muslim woman wearing a skirt and top, no hijab?

 

[Father Heathen]

Why did human beings start wearing clothes/dresses?

To protect themselves from the elements.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't think everyone everywhere in the world agrees that nudity is immoral.

Exactly. In fact it tends to only be the societies that are heavily influenced by abrahamic religions that treat nudity as "sinful". There is no rational reason to treat the natural beauty of the human body and of sexuality as something dirty or shameful.