Misogynistic and Selfish, Edinburgh's Rape Crisis Centre's CEO is a trans-woman, i.e. a man !

[icehorse]

I eagerly await all of the hard data I'm sure you'll provide.

I've provided this data on this forum many times.

But I'll give you a few shortcuts: Look into the Cass Report. Look into the WPATH files.

And again, I'm sure you have plenty of evidence for this. I'll clarify again. You need to support the following:

1) There are poorly conceived gender identity laws.

2) Women and girls and being abused by bad man using said laws.

Links to this evidence have been provided several times in this thread.

Says the person with none, so that's hilariously ironic! SW not only has lived experience (which does actually matter, regardless of you trying to be dismissive), but experience working in mental health.

JK Rowlings is just some celeb fiction writer. She's no authority on anything.

And yet she observed rape victims being force fed political ideology when they were at their most vulnerable and went to great time and expense to create a new rape crisis center that would not push political ideologies on victims.

 

[SkepticThinker]

A little typo you did here: I said "hundreds OR thousands" of cases.

Okay, you've not presented hundreds OR thousands of cases. Just one.

If you read or watched any of the information that's been provided in this thread you can see that Roz Adams worked at this rape crisis center for years.

And?

Most people are not up to speed on transgenderism. By demanding that they lie about what their eyes are telling them you are fostering bad feelings, not good ones.

There you go claiming it's a lie again.

You're a poor mind reader, I have NOT ignored them.

I don't need to read your mind to visually see you dismissing their experiences in print, on this board.

What I'm doing is zooming out to see the bigger picture.

What you're doing is dismissing peoples' experiences and then generalizing about trans people overall, based on some tweets made by J.K. Rowling.

You seem to be hoping that we cold magically inform all of society that using biologically false pronouns would somehow support trans people.

No magic required. When someone says "Hi my name is Amy."
Just call them Amy, like you do with every other human being you'll ever meet.

But we can't. Forcing people to lie - in the grand scheme of things - will not be good for trans people in the long run.

There you go claiming it's a lie again.

Again, we're in a debate. This is not the same as interactions in the real world. We discuss and debate things differently than how we talk in the real world.

No kidding. Just wondering what "we're in a debate" has to do with what I said about your stigmatization of trans people.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

What I'm doing is zooming out to see the bigger picture.

*looks at thread title*

"This one rape crisis centre is run by a trans woman, and that's bad for some reason I can't effectively justify, and I'm also going to deliberately misgender this person BUT I AM TOTALLY NOT JUST A TRANSPHOBE, I SWEAR!"

Yep. Real "big picture stuff", there.

Meanwhile, all long-term studies of the effect of trans-inclusive laws on rape rates show that there isn't an increase in rape rates when trans people are accepted and allowed into women's spaces.

/thread

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again, Roz Adams has far, far more data than anyone on RF. JKR has established a rape crisis center so that victims do not have to be exposed to gender ideology when they are at their most vulnerable.

They both have far, far more credibility than you do.

Has Rowling herself worked with rape victims? Does she have experience in working mental health? Seems I'm more credible tham she is on the topic.
All you have is TERF transphobix garbage that weaponizes others, amd when they protest you doing this you tell them to shut up because they don't count except as a few blips of data.

 

[icehorse]

Meanwhile, all long-term studies of the effect of trans-inclusive laws on rape rates show that there isn't an increase in rape rates when trans people are accepted and allowed into women's spaces.

That's not what this thread is about, sigh.

 

[icehorse]

Has Rowling herself worked with rape victims? Does she have experience in working mental health? Seems I'm more credible tham she is on the topic.
All you have is TERF transphobix garbage that weaponizes others, amd when they protest you doing this you tell them to shut up because they don't count except as a few blips of data.

Trans activists are weaponizing confused kids in the worst possible way. They are maiming and sterilizing them when there is no good evidence that such permanent and life damaging medical interventions are effective.

Can we return to common sense and reality here?

It is NOT helpful or compassionate to lecture vulnerable rape victims on ANY sort of political ideology, gender ideology or otherwise.

 

[Magic Man]

I've provided this data on this forum many times.

But I'll give you a few shortcuts: Look into the Cass Report. Look into the WPATH files.

You started the thread. You made the claims. It's up to you to provide evidence for them. Just giving two key words for me to have to research is not providing evidence. This is why I was specific. Back up your claims.

Links to this evidence have been provided several times in this thread.

Cool, then it should be easy to show them to me.

And yet she observed rape victims being force fed political ideology when they were at their most vulnerable and went to great time and expense to create a new rape crisis center that would not push political ideologies on victims.

Cool, and now all you have to do is support this claim. Then once you do (even though we know you won't), you can come back to my actual point here, which is that JKR and her friends are TERFs/transphobes. She even cozies up to anti-choice people now. Talk about misogyny. So, she has no actual credibility, and if you're promoting her, you lose any you might have.

 

[Magic Man]

Most people are not up to speed on transgenderism. By demanding that they lie about what their eyes are telling them you are fostering bad feelings, not good ones.

No one is demanding they lie. All they should do is properly gender people. If the person in question is a woman, call her a woman and use her preferred pronouns. It's pretty simple. The fact that you still refuse to let yourself understand what people are saying is a big problem. "What their eyes are telling them" is irrelevant. You can't see gender. It's a mental state, not a physical condition. Most of the time, gender aligns with sex, but not always. What you see doesn't matter when we're talking about someone's gender.

 

[Magic Man]

Trans activists are weaponizing confused kids in the worst possible way. They are maiming and sterilizing them when there is no good evidence that such permanent and life damaging medical interventions are effective.

Again, now all you have to do is actually support this with evidence. Show us exactly where children are being maimed or sterilized. Show us that there is no evidence that gender-affirming care is effective.

Can we return to common sense and reality here?

Gods, I hope so. Does this mean you're ready to acknowledge gender and that it's different from sex and that "what you see" isn't relevant here and that you should call people what they are, rather than what you insist they are?

It is NOT helpful or compassionate to lecture vulnerable rape victims on ANY sort of political ideology, gender ideology or otherwise.

Here's the thing. You could get somewhere with this. We could have a discussion about Mridul and her quote and the way she wants things done. The idea of addressing bigotry in sexual assault victims (including exactly what she meant) is ripe for discussion. The problem is all you're doing is going on transphobic rants. You're not attempting to bring it up or address it in a remotely thoughtful way or one that's conducive to discussion. You refuse to even properly gender her. If you can't do even that very simple thing, we're never going to be able to discuss something like this.

 

[icehorse]

Again, now all you have to do is actually support this with evidence. Show us exactly where children are being maimed or sterilized. Show us that there is no evidence that gender-affirming care is effective.


Gods, I hope so. Does this mean you're ready to acknowledge gender and that it's different from sex and that "what you see" isn't relevant here and that you should call people what they are, rather than what you insist they are?


Here's the thing. You could get somewhere with this. We could have a discussion about Mridul and her quote and the way she wants things done. The idea of addressing bigotry in sexual assault victims (including exactly what she meant) is ripe for discussion. The problem is all you're doing is going on transphobic rants. You're not attempting to bring it up or address it in a remotely thoughtful way or one that's conducive to discussion. You refuse to even properly gender her. If you can't do even that very simple thing, we're never going to be able to discuss something like this.

I reject the ideology you're defending. I'm not going to give your ideology an inch.

I'm not going to cede to your ideology any damaging linguistic ground. I'm not going to give in to any damaging policies put forth by trans activists.

I do not believe that needlessly maiming and sterilizing confused kids helps trans people.
I do not believe that forcing people into linguistic dishonesty helps trans people.
I do not believe it's appropriate at a rape crisis center to subject victims to political bullying.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I reject the ideology you're defending. I'm not going to give your ideology an inch.

I'm not going to cede to your ideology any damaging linguistic ground. I'm not going to give in to any damaging policies put forth by trans activists.

I do not believe that needlessly maiming and sterilizing confused kids helps trans people.
I do not believe that forcing people into linguistic dishonesty helps trans people.
I do not believe it's appropriate at a rape crisis center to subject victims to political bullying.

Yeah, you are still only a single data point.

 

[Magic Man]

I reject the ideology you're defending. I'm not going to give your ideology an inch.

I'm not going to cede to your ideology any damaging linguistic ground. I'm not going to give in to any damaging policies put forth by trans activists.

I'm not defending an ideology. I'm explaining transgenderism and why you should call people by their proper gender and pronouns. There is no "damaging linguistic ground", just treating people with respect. There are no "damaging policies put forth by trans activists".

The fact that you're treating this like a battle, rather than a discussion where you can learn things and have a normal conversation is problematic.

I do not believe that needlessly maiming and sterilizing confused kids helps trans people.

Neither do I. Now, if you can provide the evidence that this is happening, you might get me on your side. So far, all I have is your claim.

I do not believe that forcing people into linguistic dishonesty helps trans people.

Neither do I. That's why I don't advocate that. I just advocate calling people by their proper gender and pronouns.

I do not believe it's appropriate at a rape crisis center to subject victims to political bullying.

As I said, we can discuss what Mridul said on that topic (at least on the topic you're misconstruing here), but we can't get anywhere with you continuing these transphobic rants.

 

[icehorse]

@Magic Man

- evidence has been provided, several times
- you are asking me to compromise on aspects of gender ideology, and I won't.

I'm happy to discuss this with you, but not if you demand that I say things I don't believe.

 

[Magic Man]

@Magic Man

- evidence has been provided, several times

Then show me. I'm not sorting through 10 pages of thread to try to find this clear evidence you supposedly have.

- you are asking me to compromise on aspects of gender ideology, and I won't.

I'm not asking anything at all about gender ideology. Again, that's a term only used by transphobes. I'm pointing out that you're being transphobic and advising on ways for you to stop doing that. I realize you probably won't, but I can try anyway.

Again, if you stop treating this as a battle and start treating it like a discussion where you can grow and learn things, it'll work out much better for everyone.

I'm happy to discuss this with you, but not if you demand that I say things I don't believe.

Good, since I haven't demanded anything of you, much less that you say things you don't believe, then discuss it with me. You'll just have to do it without all the transphobia and ranting.

 

[icehorse]

Then show me. I'm not sorting through 10 pages of thread to try to find this clear evidence you supposedly have.

Posts #1 and #31 provide details about the rape crisis center situation.

As I said to someone a few posts back, if you actually care about how confused kids are being abused by doctors who have bought into gender ideology, find the Cass Report (or related articles), or the WPATH files (or related articles), online.

Several months ago I provided substantial evidence in this thread:

The evidence supporting "gender affirming care" is of very low reliability

I'm not asking anything at all about gender ideology. Again, that's a term only used by transphobes. I'm pointing out that you're being transphobic and advising on ways for you to stop doing that. I realize you probably won't, but I can try anyway.

Again, if you stop treating this as a battle and start treating it like a discussion where you can grow and learn things, it'll work out much better for everyone.

Many times on this forum I've proactively stated my beliefs, values, and political leanings, in clear, unambiguous detail.

What I've noticed is that for the most part on RF "progressives" / "the left" / "the woke" and/or "gender ideologists" are not at all willing to be up front about what they value and believe. So feel free to tell me what label I should give to people who support trans activism.

As for me learning things, ha! Smug much? I'd like to think that you're well intended, but that you've been misinformed without your knowledge. I am happy to dive into these topics with you, and I'm open to learning, but you have to be open as well, and your smug demands do not give me much confidence as to you openness. Again, this is typical of the woke who tend not to be able to debate honestly and who have created delightful ideas like cancel culture and #nodebate, sigh.

Good, since I haven't demanded anything of you, much less that you say things you don't believe, then discuss it with me. You'll just have to do it without all the transphobia and ranting.

I'm happy to admit that I thoroughly dislike the main thrust of trans activism. That does NOT make me transphobic.

As for our discussion, henceforth - for our purposes on this forum only - I'm happy to refer to Mridul as "zer" and "zee". And BTW, MANY trans people advocate for trans-specific pronouns, so what I just offered is NOT transphobic.

 

[Magic Man]

Posts #1 and #31 provide details about the rape crisis center situation.

Which parts of those do you think support your claims about confused kids, maiming and sterilizing?

As I said to someone a few posts back, if you actually care about how confused kids are being abused by doctors who have bought into gender ideology, find the Cass Report (or related articles), or the WPATH files (or related articles), online.

As I said to you, give me actual evidence, not a couple key words that I have to research. The Cass report in no way supports anything you've said. All it said was that the data they have on some gender-affirming healthcare is insufficient. It didn't say that the healthcare was bad or wrong or should definitely not be used. In fact, it said that there are young people with gender distress who need help, and the whole point is obtain the data to help them better.

Several months ago I provided substantial evidence in this thread:

The evidence supporting "gender affirming care" is of very low reliability

The only thing that said is that a certain protocol needs more research and possibly updating. It says absolutely nothing about maiming or sterilizing kids or performing cruel treatments on them. At worst, it's gender-affirming care that hasn't been studied enough properly.

Many times on this forum I've proactively stated my beliefs, values, and political leanings, in clear, unambiguous detail.

What I've noticed is that for the most part on RF "progressives" / "the left" / "the woke" and/or "gender ideologists" are not at all willing to be up front about what they value and believe. So feel free to tell me what label I should give to people who support trans activism.

You can call us normal, reasonable people.

As for me learning things, ha! Smug much? I'd like to think that you're well intended, but that you've been misinformed without your knowledge. I am happy to dive into these topics with you, and I'm open to learning, but you have to be open as well, and your smug demands do not give me much confidence as to you openness. Again, this is typical of the woke who tend not to be able to debate honestly and who have created delightful ideas like cancel culture and #nodebate, sigh.

I'm open to learning. There's nothing smug about it. You have displayed a deep and intentional misunderstanding of this topic as well as a refusal to listen to anything that goes against that willful ignorance. You're doing it again here. There's nothing "typical of the woke". I'm not the one having trouble debating honestly here.

I'm happy to admit that I thoroughly dislike the main thrust of trans activism. That does NOT make me transphobic.

Intentionally and repeatedly misgendering people, refusing to try to understand what gender and transgenderism even are, and decrying several buzzwords you heard from transphobes makes you transphobic.

As for our discussion, henceforth - for our purposes on this forum only - I'm happy to refer to Mridul as "zer" and "zee". And BTW, MANY trans people advocate for trans-specific pronouns, so what I just offered is NOT transphobic.

And some women like JKR advocate with groups who are misogynistic. Her being a woman doesn't make it misogynistic.

I don't doubt that some trans people are cool with those pronouns. But they're still an attempt to get around simply using the proper ones. At the very least that's your reason for wanting them. You refuse to use the proper ones, so you want to use totally new ones.

 

[icehorse]

Which parts of those do you think support your claims about confused kids, maiming and sterilizing?

that evidence was in the other RF thread I linked to.

You can call us normal, reasonable people.

Not if you support trans activism.

I'm open to learning. There's nothing smug about it. You have displayed a deep and intentional misunderstanding of this topic as well as a refusal to listen to anything that goes against that willful ignorance. You're doing it again here. There's nothing "typical of the woke". I'm not the one having trouble debating honestly here.

You mistake misunderstanding with disagreeing. I think I understand how "gender" and "gender identity" are be used and abused in the world quite well. I query other posters on these ideas because what I see quite often is that people who parrot such ideas can't actually defend thm when push comes to shove.

As far as "the woke", as I said, I'm open to learning a different term for those people who - among other things - support trans activism.

Intentionally and repeatedly misgendering people, refusing to try to understand what gender and transgenderism even are, and decrying several buzzwords you heard from transphobes makes you transphobic.

First, I've offered to call Mridul "zee" and "zer" - many trans people would approve of those, or some other trans-specific pronouns.

But I don't agree with the concept of "misgendering" - at least not until I hear cogent definitions for "gender" and "gender identity". As far as I'm concerned "misgendering" is an idea that's built on sand. It is not transphobic to want to understand what a term means, before agreeing with it

And some women like JKR advocate with groups who are misogynistic.

I think you're mistaken. JKR supports feminists and gays and trans people. She does NOT support trans activism which is frequently misogynistic and homophobic.

If you think JKR supports misogyny, you'll have to provide some evidence of that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Trans activists are weaponizing confused kids in the worst possible way. They are maiming and sterilizing them when there is no good evidence that such permanent and life damaging medical interventions are effective.

Can we return to common sense and reality here?

It is NOT helpful or compassionate to lecture vulnerable rape victims on ANY sort of political ideology, gender ideology or otherwise.

You don't even know how a medical transition works.

 

[icehorse]

You don't even know how a medical transition works.

You can be so adorable!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That's not what this thread is about, sigh.

You're right, it's about you deliberately misrepresenting individual cases in order to create the false impression that they indicate a trend, all while constantly trying to suggest YOU'RE the one looking at the "big picture".

Big picture contradicts you.

/thread