Misogyny in Game of Thrones?

[freethinker44]

Oh right, you don't deny that sexual harassment exists, you just doubt that anyone actually experiences it firsthand, or is capable of accurately relating their experience of it.

No, I just doubt that your the hardest working person in the film business and get "blacklisted" because you won't have sex with all the lazy men who work with you who are just upset because you work so much harder than they do. Everyone thinks they're special.

 

[freethinker44]

Sure you did, by inference, in your reaction to the everyday sexism project, which amounted to a big eyeball roll. I think you should give it anther go, to be honest. Even skipping the wordy ones, it should help you gain some insight into the casual sexual harassment, sexism and discrimination most women experience at some point in their lives.

You're right, it was an eyeroll. I got as far as, one girl got groped at a concert, and another got told she has nice legs. Oh, the horror :sarcastic. I agree with first girls friend, everyone gets groped at a concert. Everyone. I've been groped at a concert. Heck, she got off easy, I've been punched in the face at a concert.

I doubt all them were so superficial. I'm sure there are more than few that are legitimate, but I'm not going to sort through them all to find the few good ones.

 

[Alceste]

No, I just doubt that your the hardest working person in the film business and get "blacklisted" because you won't have sex with all the lazy men who work with you who are just upset because you work so much harder than they do. Everyone thinks they're special.

Lol. Yeah, because what you just said is exactly what I said, verbatim.

 

[Alceste]

You're right, it was an eyeroll. I got as far as, one girl got groped at a concert, and another got told she has nice legs. Oh, the horror :sarcastic. I agree with first girls friend, everyone gets groped at a concert. Everyone. I've been groped at a concert. Heck, she got off easy, I've been punched in the face at a concert.

I doubt all them were so superficial. I'm sure there are more than few that are legitimate, but I'm not going to sort through them all to find the few good ones.

I've never been groped or punched at a concert, bar, festival or any other public event. And I've been to hundreds of them, all over the world. Therefore I don't believe you were ever groped or punched at a concert either.

I see you only read the first account. I skimmed that one because long winded posts bore me. I recommend just reading the one or two sentence accounts, as I do. I don't need someone's whole life story, just the incident that niggles, which is something we can all relate to.

 

[freethinker44]

I've never been groped or punched at a concert, bar, festival or any other public event. And I've been to hundreds of them, all over the world. Therefore I don't believe you were ever groped or punched at a concert either.

See? Now that's not an unreasonable or ridiculous doubt, is it?

I see you only read the first account. I skimmed that one because long winded posts bore me. I recommend just reading the one or two sentence accounts, as I do. I don't need someone's whole life story, just the incident that niggles, which is something we can all relate to.

I actually just did that, read posts that were three or four lines. Went about six pages in and it was exactly what I thought it would be: a handful of legitimate complaints and a lot of "poor me" first-world problems.

 

[Alceste]

See? Now that's not an unreasonable or ridiculous doubt, is it?



I actually just did that, read posts that were three or four lines. Went about six pages in and it was exactly what I thought it would be: a handful of legitimate complaints and a lot of "poor me" first-world problems.

OK, so you don't think having your tits fondled by gross old men or being molested by your doctor, or having your father chalk up your rape account as girlish confusion are that big a deal. Fine. Most people disagree, thank heavens.

And yeah, it was a ridiculous doubt. I was being sarcastic.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I stopped reading your post after this line because I knew it was based on this complete fabrication that didn't come from me. I have never denied misogyny and sexual harassment exist, if I even came close to saying that than you misunderstood me, but I didn't so this is completely fabricated.

I think unjustified/misplaced skepticism about accounts of sexual harassment or assault is tantamount to denial of a cultural problem that is significant in many places. You have outright said that you are skeptical of certain anecdotes about sexual harassment because you have never seen anything similar yourself; what should a victim of such harassment do to convince you that she has actually been subjected to it, then? And to broaden the scope of the question, what would it take for you to believe someone's word that they have been raped?

And I still think that unless you were a woman in another life, then you would never be able to have firsthand experience of what it's like to be sexually harassed or assaulted in a culture that is biased against your gender. You and I are actually fortunate that we live in a time and place when men aren't generally at a social disadvantage because of their gender; I don't think denying that other people don't have it as good is the best use of the relative advantage many men have from their privileged vantage point.

 

[Drolefille]

Anything that doesn't happen to me didn't happen. The Ukraine - not real.

Having penile cancer? Not real.

Men not getting custody of their kids? Not real.
Murder victims? Not real. Doesn't happen. I've never seen it.

I mean, I'm just being a skeptic right?

 

[freethinker44]

I think unjustified/misplaced skepticism about accounts of sexual harassment or assault...

Nope wrong, an account of sexual harassment or assault.

You have outright said that you are skeptical of certain anecdotes about sexual harassment because you have never seen anything similar yourself.

No wrong again. I have outright said I am skeptical of a single persons anecdote.

Don't generalize.

You and I are actually fortunate that we live in a time and place when men aren't generally at a social disadvantage because of their gender;

That's debatable.

 

[freethinker44]

I mean, I'm just being a skeptic right?

You are actually. True skepticism doubts everything.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Nope wrong, an account of sexual harassment or assault.

Does that include this?

Couldn't view it. I got two posts in and my brain went into skeptical overload, I think I actually blacked out for a minute. I couldn't go any further.

No wrong again. I have outright said I am skeptical of a single persons anecdote.

Don't generalize.

See above.

That's debatable.

In very few countries, maybe; however, I think it is arguable that most countries are still biased against women in one way or another.

That's a topic for another thread, though. There are enough open cans of worms in this one.

 

[Drolefille]

You are actually. True skepticism doubts everything.

I don't believe you.

Also you're wrong.
Skepticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Philosophical skepticism is an overall approach that requires all information to be well supported by evidence.

"I didn't see it so it didn't happen" isn't being a good skeptic, it's ignoring evidence. If you'd bothered to respond to anything else in my post you'd have addressed this point, instead you tried to be pithy and looked foolish.

Philosophical skepticism also refrains from making truth claims at all - so taking the opposing stance of active denial of the existence of sexism in the workplace is no more skeptic than stating it is. But I sincerely doubt you're "really" a philosophical skeptic.

I could tell you about how I reported my coworker for calling a musician a dyke at work, when we work with any number of lesbian or bisexual clients (or "that way in prison" clients). That I know he's had sexual harassment "retraining" before.

That my international company wouldn't spend money on us having sexual harassment trainings once a year and on hire if there was no problem, because they don't like spending money. But you wouldn't believe me.

 

[Alceste]

You are actually. True skepticism doubts everything.

This after reiterating twice that you only doubt ONE account of sexual discrimination. Make up your mind.

 

[freethinker44]

This after reiterating twice that you only doubt ONE account of sexual discrimination. Make up your mind.

All of this is all over me doubting ONE single account of harassment, yours, and then you tried to get me to read some casual sexism web page, I guess to distract attention away from doubting your personal anecdote, and that page was exactly what I thought it would be; a few legitimate posts surrounded by a bunch of garbage.

 

[freethinker44]

I don't believe you.

Also you're wrong.
Skepticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Philosophical skepticism is an overall approach that requires all information to be well supported by evidence.

So I'm right then. It is completely reasonable to doubt someone's anecdotal evidence.

 

[Drolefille]

All of this is all over me doubting ONE single account of harassment, yours, and then you tried to get me to read some casual sexism web page, I guess to distract attention away from doubting your personal anecdote, and that page was exactly what I thought it would be; a few legitimate posts surrounded by a bunch of garbage.

I linked you to an advocacy website and a website with statistics and cited sources. But you ignored those too.

So I'm right then. It is completely reasonable to doubt someone's anecdotal evidence.

No, you're picking and choosing your evidence like you pick and choose what you respond to. It's the same thing conspiracy theorists do. And they claim to be "skeptics" as well.

Really the light of your username, this is pretty ironic, IMO.

 

[freethinker44]

That's a topic for another thread, though. There are enough open cans of worms in this one.

It is pretty far off topic, huh? I think most of the thread has been off topic.

 

[Alceste]

So I'm right then. It is completely reasonable to doubt someone's anecdotal evidence.

Not always. There are a lot of factors involved, one of which is how extraordinary the claim is. You've placed sexual harassment claims in a a lofty tier that causes exposure to multiple accounts of sexism all gathered together to send your brain into "skepticism overload", much like a normal brain reading accounts of personal encounters with fairies or aliens.

That's abnormal. Most people file sexism in the same category as "what I had for breakfast". We know sexism is commonplace just as we know most people had something for breakfast, so we're not catapulted into irrational fits of doubt when they tell us what it was.

 

[Drolefille]

Not always. There are a lot of factors involved, one of which is how extraordinary the claim is. You've placed sexual harassment claims in a a lofty tier that causes exposure to multiple accounts of sexism all gathered together to send your brain into "skepticism overload", much like a normal brain reading accounts of personal encounters with fairies or aliens.

That's abnormal. Most people file sexism in the same category as "what I had for breakfast". We know sexism is commonplace just as we know most people had something for breakfast, so we're not catapulted into irrational fits of doubt when they tell us what it was.

Bingo.

 

[freethinker44]

I linked you to an advocacy website and a website with statistics and cited sources. But you ignored those too.

I looked at them, they don't seem to have anything to with anything though. Like we were talking and you just start inserting random statistics as if it proves something. But I wasn't arguing against the statistics so I ignored it.

No, you're picking and choosing your evidence like you pick and choose what you respond to.

Wrong, I haven't posted any evidence at all.

Really the light of your username, this is pretty ironic, IMO.

Great, we're down to insults. I usually claim victory when people resort to name calling/personal insults. So.... yay me, WINNING.