Misquote in the Gospel

[Oeste]

I think the facts speak for themselves, and the NWT itself gives evidence of the care and scholarship of it's translators.

The faulty translation is the NWT.

I would have to agree with Omega.

Virtually all the quotes attesting to the NWT's veracity have been debunked. For example, in the first quote regarding Dr. Goodspeed, W.I. Cetnar (who worked at Bethel) was sent by the Watchtower to interview Dr. Goodspeed to get his further impressions of the New World Translation. At the end of the interview, Cetnar asked Dr. Goodwell if he could recommend the NWT to the public. These are his comments, as published by Mr. Cetnar:

Goodspeed answered, `No, I'm afraid I could not do that. The grammar is regrettable. Be careful on the grammar. Be sure you have that right." Cetnar, W.I. & J., Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses Who Love The Truth (Kunkletown, Pennsylvania: W.I. Cetnar, 1983) 64

Likewise, the Watchtower makes a big deal about "British Bible Critic, Alexander Thomson". But it neglects to mention Mr. Thomson was a banker who had no experience in Greek and Hebrew and co-edited the poorly circulated Differentiator in his spare time.

For others, you can simply check here

But since this has been brought up, perhaps rusra or kjw could kindly tell us why the Watchtower continued to quote Johannes Greber, a known spirit medium, in support of the NWT?

Here's are pages 110 and 111 of the February 15, 1956 edition of the Watchtower which warned readers that Greber was a spiritist and the spirits that helped him translate the New Testament were of the anti-Christ. Yet they continued to quote him in decades later in support of the NWT! This is after, not before, they knew Greber was a spiritist!!

Was it because the Governing Board was also "channeling" divine truths and they didn't see, as kjw described, the "mortal error" of it?

 

[Oeste]

By making correction = repentence. That is what repentence is--correcting ones errors.

You can't be serious kjw. Is this what your Organization teaches?

Let me tell you about Emmet Till. He was a 14 year old black boy from Chicago visiting relatives in Money, Mississippi. Durig the summer of 1955 he came across a white woman who accused him of whistling to her and saying "bye-bye baby".

A few nights later, the women's husband and half brother abducted the boy from his great-uncle's house, beat and mutilated him, then threw his body in the Tallahachee River.

67 years later, the women "corrected" here story, admitting that Emmet had never whistled or verbally assaulted her.

Your church would call this woman's "corrected" story an act of "repentance"??? I've never heard of such a thing!

What if I were shooting a bunch of people when someone turns to me and says "You shouldn't do that". When I say "My bad" and "correct" my aim to the shooting gallery, have I repented?

One must understand--When Jesus said his--faithful and discreet slave( real teachers) would give food ( spiritual) at the proper time( when God willed it known)--not a moment before.

So the dates given were improper food at an improper time? How can that be, If God declared they would give proper food at the proper time? Did his word come back unfulfilled, foiled by man???

It just seems to me that the group you have just isn't the Faithful Discreet Slave. Am I wrong in thinking this, and if so, how?

 

[kjw47]

You can't be serious kjw. Is this what your Organization teaches?

Let me tell you about Emmet Till. He was a 14 year old black boy from Chicago visiting relatives in Money, Mississippi. Durig the summer of 1955 he came across a white woman who accused him of whistling to her and saying "bye-bye baby".

A few nights later, the women's husband and half brother abducted the boy from his great-uncle's house, beat and mutilated him, then threw his body in the Tallahachee River.

67 years later, the women "corrected" here story, admitting that Emmet had never whistled or verbally assaulted her.

Your church would call this woman's "corrected" story an act of "repentance"??? I've never heard of such a thing!

What if I were shooting a bunch of people when someone turns to me and says "You shouldn't do that". When I say "My bad" and "correct" my aim to the shooting gallery, have I repented?




So the dates given were improper food at an improper time? How can that be, If God declared they would give proper food at the proper time? Did his word come back unfulfilled, foiled by man???

It just seems to me that the group you have just isn't the Faithful Discreet Slave. Am I wrong in thinking this, and if so, how?

There is nothing else she could do to repent of that but admit it. She couldn't correct it.
God didn't give the dates--imperfect mortals made them.
Havent you seen what satan does to the true followers in the bible--OT--Israel FELL over and over and over( imperfect mortal thoughts took control) they made correction eventually but kept falling)
Jesus day--Gods chosen scholars couldn't even recognize their own Messiah who they were expecting at that time as well.
Peter denies Jesus 3x after all he saw Jesus do--the other 10 totally abandoned Jesus at his arrest.
Solomon--the wisest man who ever lived-fell to false god worship at the end( it doesn't say he corrected)
Read What Jesus tells the 7 congregations in Revelation

There is no perfection in imperfect mortals--especially the ones being bombarded by satan--His #1 job--relentlessly attack Jesus seed( true followers( especially the anointed teachers.

 

[rusra02]

I think the the credentials of the scholars who wrote in support of the accuracy of the NWT speak for themselves. Further, your insinuation that the governing body involves in spiritism is contemptible. I am reminded of what Jesus said about enemies of true Christianity: "It is enough for the disciple to become as his teacher, and the slave as his master. If people have called the master of the house Be·elʹze·bub, how much more those of his household?" (Matthew 10:25) Just as false religious enemies accused Christ of serving the demons, religious opposers today make similar unfounded slanders against true Christians, IMO.

 

[Oeste]

By making correction = repentence. That is what repentence is--correcting ones errors.

You can't be serious kjw. Is this what your Organization teaches?

Let me tell you about Emmet Till. He was a 14 year old black boy from Chicago visiting relatives in Money, Mississippi...67 years later, the women "corrected" here story, admitting that Emmet had never whistled or verbally assaulted her.
Your church would call this woman's "corrected" story an act of "repentance"??? I've never heard of such a thing!

There is nothing else she could do to repent of that but admit it. She couldn't correct it.

I see.

So if I'm shooting someone, I am sinning. But then I realize I should not have shot this person, so I stop shooting and have now "corrected" or "repented", from my earlier behavior. There is nothing else to do but admit it. I can't bring him back.

So I shoot his friend on the left, but once again I realize I've shot the wrong person. When I stop shooting I have truly "corrected" or "repented" from my earlier behavior. God loves a repentant person. There is nothing else to do but admit it.

That's when I realize it's his friend to the right...and well, you know how this goes by now.

I now understand why your Organization believes it could proclaim false date after false date without apology. 1914 wrong? Correct it with 1925. 1925 wrong? Correct it with 1940. 1940 wrong...? I believe I now understand your response regarding Emmet Till.

I just think your Organization's idea of "repentance", while certainly unique, is woefully inadequate and unscriptural.

 

[Oeste]

I think the the credentials of the scholars who wrote in support of the accuracy of the NWT speak for themselves.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Further, your insinuation that the governing body involves in spiritism is contemptible.

Nah.

It was your Organization's insinuation that the false dates were somehow caused by "Christendom" that was contemptible.

No one in "Christendom" forced your Governing Board to announce false dates. No one in Christendom even believed such dates, much less taught them.

Look, perhaps you can answer a few questions, since kjw seems to be short on answers.

Jesus approved your Organization in 1919, did he not?

He announced his "FAITHFUL and DISCREET" slave could be found in your Organization, did he not?

He announced this "FAITHFUL, DISCREET, slave would serve PROPER, not IMPROPER food, did he not?

He also stated the FDS would announce his food (not their own) at the PROPER time, not at some IMPROPER time, did he not?

In fact, he stated this would NOT be your normal run of the mill faithful and discreet slave. Oh no, this particular slave would be so faithful, so discreet, that it was worth recording the fidelity and fastidiousness in which they would exercise their faithfulness and discreetness, beforehand, in scripture, at Matthew 24: 45-47, did he not?

I am reminded of what Jesus said about enemies of true Christianity: "It is enough for the disciple to become as his teacher, and the slave as his master. If people have called the master of the house Be·elʹze·bub, how much more those of his household?" (Matthew 10:25)

Can you tell us how "true" Christianity manages to announce false dates?

Just as false religious enemies accused Christ of serving the demons, religious opposers today make similar unfounded slanders against true Christians, IMO.

Oh please rusra. If you could have answered any of my questions earlier you would have. If not, pick up your breastplate, don your armor, and feel free to answer them rather than laying it all on kjw.

God tells us to "test the spirits", not "believe every spirit", which is what is being done now by Omega2, myself, and others. Your Organization claims to be the ONE and ONLY "faithful and discreet slave, with a channel to the Most High, the sole bearer of "truth" on earth today.

As such, I believe it can withstand a little scrutiny.

Please tell us why 1925 is an unfounded "slander" when this date can only be found in your Organization. Where else do you think I got it? Then please tell us whether this date was faithfully served, dispensed at the proper time, just as our bibles says it would be, at the specific request of the Most High, or whether it came from some other source.

 

[kjw47]

I see.

So if I'm shooting someone, I am sinning. But then I realize I should not have shot this person, so I stop shooting and have now "corrected" or "repented", from my earlier behavior. There is nothing else to do but admit it. I can't bring him back.

So I shoot his friend on the left, but once again I realize I've shot the wrong person. When I stop shooting I have truly "corrected" or "repented" from my earlier behavior. God loves a repentant person. There is nothing else to do but admit it.

That's when I realize it's his friend to the right...and well, you know how this goes by now.

I now understand why your Organization believes it could proclaim false date after false date without apology. 1914 wrong? Correct it with 1925. 1925 wrong? Correct it with 1940. 1940 wrong...? I believe I now understand your response regarding Emmet Till.

I just think your Organization's idea of "repentance", while certainly unique, is woefully inadequate and unscriptural.

Every mortal involved in those dates have died. Paying their wages of sin. It has 0 bearing on anything now. Only by those who instead of living in 2017--live in 1914 still.

Here is the difference--- trinity religions allowed their young men to kill the members of their own religion for and against Adolf Hitler--a mass murderer. By standing on both sides of ww2-- Something Jesus would--NEVER-- allow for an iota of a second with his true followers.
If it happened again today--the same results would occur--they would stand on both sides--never correcting.
The JW teachers--stopped trying to put a date on Har-mageddon.

 

[savagewind]

Every mortal involved in those dates have died. Paying their wages of sin. It has 0 bearing on anything now. Only by those who instead of living in 2017--live in 1914 still.

Here is the difference--- trinity religions allowed their young men to kill the members of their own religion for and against Adolf Hitler--a mass murderer. By standing on both sides of ww2-- Something Jesus would--NEVER-- allow for an iota of a second with his true followers.
If it happened again today--the same results would occur--they would stand on both sides--never correcting.
The JW teachers--stopped trying to put a date on Har-mageddon.

Are you saying that you think Hitler should have been let to do more of his dirty deeds?

 

[Oeste]

Every mortal involved in those dates have died. Paying their wages of sin. It has 0 bearing on anything now. Only by those who instead of living in 2017--live in 1914 still.

Then obviously they were not the "faithful discreet slave" they claimed to be. They went "beyond what is written". But it still has bearing now.

Your current Governing Board has not "corrected" the idea that your prior "faithful discreet slave" wasn't actually the faithful discreet slave. So even by your Organization's bizarre definition, they have not "repented" because they have not "corrected".

Here is the difference--- trinity religions allowed their young men to kill the members of their own religion for and against Adolf Hitler--a mass murderer. By standing on both sides of ww2-- Something Jesus would--NEVER-- allow for an iota of a second with his true followers.

Whoa! So the Nazis were a Trinitarian Christian Organization? Who told you that? The same people who told us about 1940? Sounds like a tall tale to me. Also, are you claiming Jesus would have preferred it if "true" Christians stood aside while he killed the Jews? That's exactly what Hitler told the German people! He couldn't understand why anyone would want to stop him. And your Organization agrees as well???

What next kjw? Your Organization is full of surprise teachings! I prefer the biblical principles found here:

“Do not spread slanderous gossip among your people.
“Do not stand idly by when your neighbor’s life is threatened. I am the Lord. Leviticus 19:16​

In other words, no slanderous gossip that "Christendom" caused your "faithful discreet slave" to spread false dates. No nonsense about a "faithful discreet slave" that wasn't always faithful or discreet, no slanderous gossip that the Nazis were some sort of Christian religious organization or group. And certainly, no nonsense that we should stand against the blood of our neighbors by allowing others to kill them. As Jesus stated:

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." John 13:34​

"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" John 15:13​

The JW teachers--stopped trying to put a date on Har-mageddon.

That's great! But since God never asked them to make dates in the first place, and since they claimed they were the "faithful discreet slave" while they were giving those dates, and since they "went beyond what is written" then they can't be the "faithful discreet slave", because the FDS would be exactly what God said they would be...faithful and discreet. So until they ask forgiveness, apologize and repent, they are still in their sin.

 

[Oeste]

Are you saying that you think Hitler should have been let to do more of his dirty deeds?

Good question savagewind!

Just don't expect a detailed answer, that is, if you get one at all. Many questions and points raised with my Witness friends on this thread remain unanswered, and the few answers I've received tend to be a bit fuzzy around the edges.

 

[savagewind]

Good question savagewind!

Just don't expect a detailed answer, that is, if you get one at all. Many questions and points raised with my Witness friends on this thread remain unanswered, and the few answers I've received tend to be a bit fuzzy around the edges.

Very true!

On the forum, all we are is our voice. There is an app that is able to eliminate voices. In a sense, to put someone on 'ignore' is to cause his or her death on the forum.

So, in conclusion, it is OK for someone to kill another person for their opinion that might make the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses look stupid, but, it is not OK to kill a mad man to stop him from killing innocent men, women, and children.

 

[kjw47]

Are you saying that you think Hitler should have been let to do more of his dirty deeds?

He wouldn't have had a chance if the false teachers claiming to serve Jesus told the young men--never stand on both sides of mens wars of hatred--Jesus will not condone it for a second--Then Hitler wouldn't have had enough armies to attack anyone. They failed Jesus and the 55 million who were slaughtered.
My teachers warned not to stand on both sides. There is no division with Jesus( 1Cor 1:10)--proving 100% those false teachers do not know Jesus.

 

[kjw47]

Then obviously they were not the "faithful discreet slave" they claimed to be. They went "beyond what is written". But it still has bearing now.

Your current Governing Board has not "corrected" the idea that your prior "faithful discreet slave" wasn't actually the faithful discreet slave. So even by your Organization's bizarre definition, they have not "repented" because they have not "corrected".



Whoa! So the Nazis were a Trinitarian Christian Organization? Who told you that? The same people who told us about 1940? Sounds like a tall tale to me. Also, are you claiming Jesus would have preferred it if "true" Christians stood aside while he killed the Jews? That's exactly what Hitler told the German people! He couldn't understand why anyone would want to stop him. And your Organization agrees as well???

What next kjw? Your Organization is full of surprise teachings! I prefer the biblical principles found here:

“Do not spread slanderous gossip among your people.
“Do not stand idly by when your neighbor’s life is threatened. I am the Lord. Leviticus 19:16​

View attachment 16087

In other words, no slanderous gossip that "Christendom" caused your "faithful discreet slave" to spread false dates. No nonsense about a "faithful discreet slave" that wasn't always faithful or discreet, no slanderous gossip that the Nazis were some sort of Christian religious organization or group. And certainly, no nonsense that we should stand against the blood of our neighbors by allowing others to kill them. As Jesus stated:

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." John 13:34​

"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" John 15:13​

That's great! But since God never asked them to make dates in the first place, and since they claimed they were the "faithful discreet slave" while they were giving those dates, and since they "went beyond what is written" then they can't be the "faithful discreet slave", because the FDS would be exactly what God said they would be...faithful and discreet. So until they ask forgiveness, apologize and repent, they are still in their sin.

Catholicism backed him 100% until they saw he was nothing more than a mass murderer--but still let the young men blow each others heads off standing on both sides. Other Trinitarian young men did the same. They feared him, more than they feared God.

 

[savagewind]

He wouldn't have had a chance if the false teachers claiming to serve Jesus told the young men--never stand on both sides of mens wars of hatred--Jesus will not condone it for a second--Then Hitler wouldn't have had enough armies to attack anyone. They failed Jesus and the 55 million who were slaughtered.
My teachers warned not to stand on both sides. There is no division with Jesus( 1Cor 1:10)--proving 100% those false teachers do not know Jesus.

I suppose you think that there are people who listen to obey religious leaders and because the religious leaders didn't tell them not to war against another, there was a war?

Maybe you do not know that most people could not care less about what priests pastors and the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses say.

I understand what you are saying and I tend to agree with it. If a leader can't get enough people to fight, there could not be wars. That isn't the case, though. I am glad about the brave people who went to fight Hitler. If The SS was ruling now, there would not be a governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. You know that. Right?

 

[Oeste]

Catholicism backed him 100% until they saw he was nothing more than a mass murderer

Well I'm glad they didn't support him after they saw he was nothing more than a mass murderer.

-but still let the young men blow each others heads off standing on both sides

So it would have been better, in your opinion, if we simply allowed the Nazis to kill the gypsies and Jews? Isn't that what Hitler recommended? Perhaps we could have chipped in and helped him build the concentration camps too?

Other Trinitarian young men did the same. They feared him, more than they feared God.

Where do you get this nonsense from? The same people who taught you 1914 and 1925? Why should anyone believe them?

Quite simply kjw, if people feared Hitler more than they feared God they would never have lifted a finger against him.

I find your rather sketchy historical analysis, suggestion that God prefers it when we allow people to commit atrocities and genocides, and your claim that the Nazis were some sort of Trinitarian religious organization simply bigoted, unbiblical (Leviticus 19:16, John 13:34, John 15:13), incredulous and unbelievable.

 

[kjw47]

I suppose you think that there are people who listen to obey religious leaders and because the religious leaders didn't tell them not to war against another, there was a war?

Maybe you do not know that most people could not care less about what priests pastors and the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses say.

I understand what you are saying and I tend to agree with it. If a leader can't get enough people to fight, there could not be wars. That isn't the case, though. I am glad about the brave people who went to fight Hitler. If The SS was ruling now, there would not be a governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. You know that. Right?

There would be JW,s. No man can ever tell us we cannot serve our God--We get our freedom from God not from men blowing each others heads off. Hitlers goons tried to get the JW,s to sign a paper denying God in the concentration camps. I am positive Hitler didn't care who or the JW,s were--Catholicism did though--The servants of YHWH(Jehovah) Israelites and JW,s have exposed the falseness of Catholicism for centuries--telling them, the God they teach and serve does not exist( trinity)
Gog of Magog ( may be--every kingdom on earth-rev 16)will rise up against the true followers at the end of the tribulation. That triggers Har-mageddon. Every kingdom will be mislead to stand in opposition to Jesus( Rev 16)-- Govt, armies,supporters make up--a kingdom.

 

[kjw47]

Well I'm glad they didn't support him after they saw he was nothing more than a mass murderer.



So it would have been better, in your opinion, if we simply allowed the Nazis to kill the gypsies and Jews? Isn't that what Hitler recommended? Perhaps we could have chipped in and helped him build the concentration camps too?



Where do you get this nonsense from? The same people who taught you 1914 and 1925? Why should anyone believe them?

View attachment 16090

Quite simply kjw, if people feared Hitler more than they feared God they would never have lifted a finger against him.

I find your rather sketchy historical analysis, suggestion that God prefers it when we allow people to commit atrocities and genocides, and your claim that the Nazis were some sort of Trinitarian religious organization simply bigoted, unbiblical (Leviticus 19:16, John 13:34, John 15:13), incredulous and unbelievable.

I was speaking of the ones killing for Hitler that feared him more than God.
Catholicism--hated the JW,s and Israelites--They were exposing their falseness in front of all hearts-- I believe--The Jews and JW,s in the concentration camps was payback to Catholicism for voting him into power, then killing for him.
I didn't say Nazis were Trinitarian--I said the trinity teachers allowed their young men to kill for Hitler--kill catholics standing on the other side. Italy backed him 100%. The home of Catholicism.
Prior to ww2--Catholicism clergy were having their members--tar and feather JW,s in the usa. They hated truth, like 99% on earth do now.
The truth, exposed the trinity god as non existent. All following it are being duped into breaking Gods #1 commandment daily.

 

[Oeste]

I was speaking of the ones killing for Hitler that feared him more than God.

That makes no sense. Why would the ones fearing Hitler kill for Hitler???

The ones fearing Hitler were the ones most likely to

A. Allow Hitler to kill or murder anyone he wanted and

B. Oppose Hitler because they feared his policies​

It’s the one who loved, believed and supported Hitler and/or his policies that are most likely to kill, not the ones who “feared” him.

Look, a lot of Americans fear terrorists. Do you think the people who fear terrorists are the ones most likely people to sign up for ISIS and help them kill?? Where do you get this stuff???

Catholicism--hated the JW,s and Israelites--They were exposing their falseness in front of all hearts-- I believe--The Jews and JW,s in the concentration camps was payback to Catholicism for voting him into power, then killing for him.

Payback to Catholicism???

Wow! I’m glad you said it was you who believed this because absolutely no fair-minded Christian does. Surely your Organization doesn’t believe any of this bigoted, anti-Catholic nonsense either, do they?

I didn't say Nazis were Trinitarian--I said the trinity teachers allowed their young men to kill for Hitler--kill catholics standing on the other side. Italy backed him 100%. The home of Catholicism.

Again, this makes no sense. The Allies were not fighting Catholics. They were fighting Nazis and Fascists which were nationalist, not Catholic religious organizations. Didn’t you ever study World War 2 in school?

Prior to ww2--Catholicism clergy were having their members--tar and feather JW,s in the usa. They hated truth, like 99% on earth do now.

With all due respect kjw, virtually every religion on the planet can point to some form of religious persecution, even Catholics.

The truth, exposed the trinity god as non existent. All following it are being duped into breaking Gods #1 commandment daily.

You call us “duped” yet your “truth” sounds nothing more than anti-Catholic, pro-Nazi, God-is-upset- with-Christians-because-they-didn’t-let-the-Jews-die, anti-Semitic propaganda to me.

I guess the whole thing makes a sort of sense within your Organization. Your teachers use replacement theology to spiritually eliminate Israel from Revelation. Expecting God to have them physically eliminated would be the logical, but theologically twisted, next step.

But in all fairness, extermination is no more than what you expect God to do for "Christendom".

 

[savagewind]

Italy backed him 100%.

What does this mean and how in the world do you know that?

Do you mean the Vatican?

On September 1st, 1939, Nazi Germany invaded Poland. Hitler had informed Mussolini what his plans were and fully expected Italian help. Mussolini, for all his boasts, realised that the Italian Army was not up to fighting in September 1939. Therefore, the Italians did not join in the German attack despite the Pact of Steel.

Italy and Germany 1936 to 1940 - History Learning Site

 

[savagewind]

@kjw47 do you mean Mussolini backed Hitler "100%"? Or, do you mean the Italian people backed Hitler 100%?

Maybe you do not realize that 100% is not humanly possible. From the beginning of the human race, every family, group, society, village, nation et cetera have had dissenters among them. The first one, of course, was Cain. Correct?

Can you tell us what in the world "Italy backed [Hitler] 100%" means? Please.

Do you realize that Hitler was going for the World? Do you realize that Mussolini was going for his part of the World?

You seem to be saying that all Italians supported Hitler's advancement to make himself the leader over all Europe, at least.

Maybe you should stop posting percentages. What do you think?