Missouri Republicans Introduce Bills to Charge Women Who Receive Abortions With Murder

[Heyo]

Apparently they say that men's fertility has decreased enormously ...since the beginning of the century.
Considering that most women in fertile age take the pill in my country...it's practically impossible to get pregnant by mistake...

It's also a miracle to find a straight handsome guy in my country...so what are the odds?

Depends on the statistic you're using. When you measure real life application with randomised women and you are only interested in resulting pregnancies, you get to the mentioned 1% per woman per year.
In clinical test where the women are more cautious and informed, it goes down significantly.
When you measure the number of births, the numbers go down by a third as about one in three pregnancies lead to natural abortions, usually within the first three months.
When you measure how many botched contraception lead to abortions, the numbers go down significantly as many women decide to have the child even though it wasn't planned.
Regardless of contraception use the number of abortions was 62 for every 100,000 women in Germany last year. That number has gone down over the years but is going up again recently.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Do you know what statistically is one of the best measures to stop abortions? Making/keeping them legal.
Where abortions are legal, the rate of abortions is lower than where they are criminalised. That holds true for countries as well as for US states.
(It may not have a direct correlation as legal abortions are also correlated with cheap and easy access to contraception and comprehensive sex ed.)

Can you show me where you got these statistics?

In Texas where I live abortions have fallen from 2600/month to less than 10/month since the law went into effect. NM saw an increase in abortions in 2022 by 13,000 or so. If you assume all were from Texas, which is unrealistic and Texas dropped by 30,000 abortions (2600/month to 10/month) during the same period then there has been a net decrease since the Texas ban.

https://www.axios.com/local/austin/2023/04/13/new-report-reveals-decline-in-abortions-in-texas

New data shows increase in abortions in states near bans compared to 2020 data

New data from the Guttmacher Institute shows an increase in the number of abortions in states bordering those with abortion bans.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Estro Felino]

Depends on the statistic you're using. When you measure real life application with randomised women and you are only interested in resulting pregnancies, you get to the mentioned 1% per woman per year.
In clinical test where the women are more cautious and informed, it goes down significantly.
When you measure the number of births, the numbers go down by a third as about one in three pregnancies lead to natural abortions, usually within the first three months.
When you measure how many botched contraception lead to abortions, the numbers go down significantly as many women decide to have the child even though it wasn't planned.
Regardless of contraception use the number of abortions was 62 for every 100,000 women in Germany last year. That number has gone down over the years but is going up again recently.

I once watched an interview with a prostitute.
They fill themselves with hormonal pills and morning after pills.
Getting pregnant is scientifically impossible.

 

[Heyo]

Can you show me where you got these statistics?

Do Laws Banning Abortion Actually Decrease the Rate of Abortions?
tl;dr: abortion frequency went down in the US after Roe v. Wade.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Do Laws Banning Abortion Actually Decrease the Rate of Abortions?
tl;dr: abortion frequency went down in the US after Roe v. Wade.

I gave you statistics that the Texas abortion rate declined significantly since the abortion law went into effect.

Also, after 1973 abortion rates skyrocketed and have never been as low as before 1973.

United States abortion rates, 1960-2013

www.johnstonsarchive.net

What the data says about abortion in the U.S.

The U.S. abortion rate has generally declined since the 1980s, but there have been slight upticks in the late 2010s and early 2020s.

www.pewresearch.org

Abortion statistics in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Heyo]

I gave you statistics that the Texas abortion rate declined significantly since the abortion law went into effect.

Yeah, that was the immediate effect, just like the immediate effect after Roe v. Wade was a rise. But in the long run abortions went down.

Also, after 1973 abortion rates skyrocketed and have never been as low as before 1973.

What the data says about abortion in the U.S.

The U.S. abortion rate has generally declined since the 1980s, but there have been slight upticks in the late 2010s and early 2020s.

www.pewresearch.org

Read the first sentence? Legal abortions.

But I think we can both pull biased statistics from the internet for and against.
And I said right in my first post on this tangent that there probably is no direct correlation.
Would you agree that comprehensive sex ed and easy and cheap access to contraceptives leads to fewer unwanted pregnancies and therefor fewer abortions?

 

[F1fan]

I gave you statistics that the Texas abortion rate declined significantly since the abortion law went into effect.

Also, after 1973 abortion rates skyrocketed and have never been as low as before 1973.

United States abortion rates, 1960-2013

www.johnstonsarchive.net

What the data says about abortion in the U.S.

The U.S. abortion rate has generally declined since the 1980s, but there have been slight upticks in the late 2010s and early 2020s.

www.pewresearch.org

Abortion statistics in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And why are abortions any conservative's business when they don't care about making sure every citizen gets healthcare access?

 

[Orbit]

Is abortion better?
Sacrificing the life of a healthy baby is better?

A woman decides to have unprotected sex and having fun in a very irresponsible way...and then she sacrifices her own baby at the altar of lust and lasciviousness.

Why do you think all pregnancies are the result of unprotected sex? They aren't.

 

[Estro Felino]

Why do you think all pregnancies are the result of unprotected sex? They aren't.

Most are.
60%.

 

[Orbit]

Most are.
60%.

Citation?

 

[Estro Felino]

Citation?

What do you mean by "protected sex"?

By protected sex I mean that the woman takes the hormonal pill and the man wears condom.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Yeah, that was the immediate effect, just like the immediate effect after Roe v. Wade was a rise. But in the long run abortions went down.

Nope, abortions never went down to the levels prior to 1973.

Read the first sentence? Legal abortions.

Yep, do you have statistics on illegal abortions?

But I think we can both pull biased statistics from the internet for and against.

How are my statistics biased? Please explain.

And I said right in my first post on this tangent that there probably is no direct correlation.

Then what is the purpose of talking about it then in this context? If there is no direct correlation then why disagree with abortion laws?

Would you agree that comprehensive sex ed and easy and cheap access to contraceptives leads to fewer unwanted pregnancies and therefor fewer abortions?

I support this and agree.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

And why are abortions any conservative's business when they don't care about making sure every citizen gets healthcare access?

Conservatives care about healthcare, but they also think taking a human life is unacceptable.

I could ask you the same thing and be just as provocative. Why do you care about human life after it is born but not human life before it is born?

 

[crossfire]

Can you show me where you got these statistics?

In Texas where I live abortions have fallen from 2600/month to less than 10/month since the law went into effect. NM saw an increase in abortions in 2022 by 13,000 or so. If you assume all were from Texas, which is unrealistic and Texas dropped by 30,000 abortions (2600/month to 10/month) during the same period then there has been a net decrease since the Texas ban.

https://www.axios.com/local/austin/2023/04/13/new-report-reveals-decline-in-abortions-in-texas

New data shows increase in abortions in states near bans compared to 2020 data

New data from the Guttmacher Institute shows an increase in the number of abortions in states bordering those with abortion bans.

abcnews.go.com

Wait until the side effects from this legislation start to manifest. You will probably see a commensurate increase in infertility of women trying to conceive, due to lack of miscarriage care and lack of care for high-risk pregnancies such as the one Mrs. Cox is currently experiencing. Women's health care providers will start leaving the state (like they are already starting to do in Idaho,) making proper women's health care even harder to get, which will escalate the downward spiral. I truly hope that it doesn't have to come down to the situation where giving birth becomes third-world-dangerous before everyone comes to their senses.

And then there is the coming political fall-out associated with this, which I can't even properly speculate about. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Estro Felino]

Wait until the side effects from this legislation start to manifest. You will probably see a commensurate increase in infertility of women trying to conceive, due to lack of miscarriage care and lack of care for high-risk pregnancies such as the one Mrs. Cox is currently experiencing. Women's health care providers will start leaving the state (like they are already starting to do in Idaho,) making proper women's health care even harder to get, which will escalate the downward spiral. I truly hope that it doesn't have to come down to the situation where giving birth becomes third-world-dangerous before everyone comes to their senses.

And then there is the coming political fall-out associated with this, which I can't even properly speculate about. We'll just have to wait and see.

Personally I know a woman who had serious cardiac problems because of decades of hormonal pill.

I want to know something: is my life more important than the life of a fetus? Of a future baby?

Selfishness is the beginning of Hell. Selfishness leads to Hell.

 

[crossfire]

Personally I know a woman who had serious cardiac problems because of decades of hormonal pill.

I want to know something: is my life more important than the life of a fetus? Of a future baby?

Selfishness is the beginning of Hell. Selfishness leads to Hell.

That decision properly belongs with the woman. It is her struggle to face, and she is the one who will have to live with it.

 

[Estro Felino]

That decision properly belongs with the woman. It is her struggle to face, and she is the one who will have to live with it.

Is becoming old really worth it?
If the old age will be made up of horrific and torturous remorse?

 

[crossfire]

Is becoming old really worth it?
If the old age will be made up of horrific and torturous remorse?

Life is pain. Women have been making these decisions and living with these decisions for millennia now. There is no getting around that. It you have children you will probably want to be around to know your grandchildren and be part of their lives. Again, this decision belongs with the woman, as it is her life to live.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And there's your next step to the Handmaid's Tale. Only a couple steps left now.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Wonderful.

Although, it is just cake.... People take life too seriously.

Last year my mother made a brain cake that looked so real that nobody would eat it (except for me ).