Modern Science proves the Authenticity of the Glorious Qur'an

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No one is arguing here that ancient civilizations had their fair share in enriching the world with scientific discoveries. The question i have raised multiple times and never get an answer for is if all the "vague scientific knowledge" in the Qur'an was common many years before Islam, can you prove that in any documented ancient book? I am specifically talking about the Qur'anic scientific knowledge so i don't want to hear about something scientific but it is not mentioned in the Quran.

In my mind, the first question, then is what scientific knowledge is mentioned in the Quran? It seems to me that the list varies depending on who you ask, so we should probably settle that before things progress further.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

No one is arguing here that ancient civilizations had their fair share in enriching the world with scientific discoveries. The question i have raised multiple times and never get an answer for is if all the "vague scientific knowledge" in the Qur'an was common many years before Islam, can you prove that in any documented ancient book? I am specifically talking about the Qur'anic scientific knowledge so i don't want to hear about something scientific but it is not mentioned in the Quran. I would like to understand where from did the Qur'an got its information in your opinion.

It is very simple since you speak of confidence then there must be some support to your claim. The reason why i am asking this question is maybe if you are tired from Muslims repeating the thing about the Qur'an scientific revelations, then you can easily show us where did Muhammed (PBUH) "copied" them from, otherwise you will have to accept our stance.

:sarcastic Let me get this straight.
Muhammed -- a leader of a very large populist and military government, as well as being the "prophet of Allah", during the early heights of Middle Eastern mathematical and scientific dominance in the world. . . . . . . .
. . . . and we must prove to you that his statistical probability for having come into contact with various scientific authorities of the time, is higher than a magical visit by unproven, mythological figures (angels, djinns, God, etc....)?? Which, I should point out, you seem to take as a given. :sarcastic

P.S. - I'm sorry. I do not mean to be rude. I am just incredulous. Why should we not start from the more likely, and physical reality. . . . then failing any possibility of that, only THEN assume mystical intervention.

 

[Fatihah]

Essentially you are claiming the knowledge in the koran was not discovered by man. The fact that man discovered that knowledge is evidence against this claim, and the fact that much of so-called koranic knowledge predates it with Greek, Egyptian, Indian, etc. discoveries simply makes it laughable.

Response: I never claimed that the knowledge was not discovered by man. However, science in the qur'an was recently discovered through advanced science of today. This advanced science did not exists 1400 years ago, making it a miracle.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

No one is arguing here that ancient civilizations had their fair share in enriching the world with scientific discoveries. The question i have raised multiple times and never get an answer for is if all the "vague scientific knowledge" in the Qur'an was common many years before Islam, can you prove that in any documented ancient book? I am specifically talking about the Qur'anic scientific knowledge so i don't want to hear about something scientific but it is not mentioned in the Quran. I would like to understand where from did the Qur'an got its information in your opinion.

It is very simple since you speak of confidence then there must be some support to your claim. The reason why i am asking this question is maybe if you are tired from Muslims repeating the thing about the Qur'an scientific revelations, then you can easily show us where did Muhammed (PBUH) "copied" them from, otherwise you will have to accept our stance.

For one, lot of ancient Indian texts have been desetroyed (guess who!) and this is well known, a lot of these things were known before Muhammeds times. I did not say it was copied. It is not copying to write down what is already down. I do not see how the Qu'ran was the origin of that knowledge. The Aryabhatiya is a good example of old texts that were partly destroyed or fully destroyed.

 

[darkendless]

Response: I never claimed that the knowledge was not discovered by man. However, science in the qur'an was recently discovered through advanced science of today. This advanced science did not exists 1400 years ago, making it a miracle.

It is not a miracle. It is conveniently applying the Quran to modern science. 99% of credible scientists of every faith will tell you that the Quran is only loosely related to science if you read a particular way.

If the Quran is scientific, does that mean the Earth Science Principles text sitting 20cm from my left hand is a divine revalation from the Gods? Why wouldn't it be?

 

[themadhair]

Response: I never claimed that the knowledge was not discovered by man. However, science in the qur'an was recently discovered through advanced science of today. This advanced science did not exists 1400 years ago, making it a miracle.

This shows the level of your ignorance here. Bear with me on this.

The 'koranic science' first talked about on this thread pertains to embryo development. This knowledge was known FIVE HUNDRED YEARS before the koran was written. The following is an excerpt from the English translation of the Greek philosopher and physician Galen’s “ Corpus Medicorum Graecorum: Galeni de Semine ”

But let us take the account back again to the first conformation of the animal, and in order to make our account orderly and clear, let us divide the creation of the foetus overall into four periods of time. The first is that in which, as is seen both in abortions and in dissection, the form of the semen prevails. At this time, Hippocrates too, the all-marvellous, does not yet call the conformation of the animal a foetus; as we heard just now in the case of semen voided in the sixth day, he still calls it semen. But when it has been filled with blood, and heart, brain and liver are still unarticulated and unshaped yet have by now a certain solidarity and considerable size, this is the second period; the substance of the foetus has the form of flesh and no longer the form of semen. Accordingly you would find that Hippocrates too no longer calls such a form semen but, as was said, foetus. The third period follows on this, when, as was said, it is possible to see the three ruling parts clearly and a kind of outline, a silhouette, as it were, of all the other parts. You will see the conformation of the three ruling parts more clearly, that of the parts of the stomach more dimly, and much more still, that of the limbs. Later on they form "twigs", as Hippocrates expressed it, indicating by the term their similarity to branches. The fourth and final period is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated; and at this part Hippocrates the marvellous no longer calls the foetus an embryo only, but already a child, too when he says that it jerks and moves as an animal now fully formed.
The time has come for nature to articulate the organs precisely and to bring all the parts to completion. Thus it caused flesh to grow on and around all the bones, and at the same time ... it made at the ends of the bones ligaments that bind them to each other, and along their entire length it placed around them on all sides thin membranes, called periosteal, on which it caused flesh to grow.

If the above sounds familiar it is probably because it was plagiarised in the koran.

So, if you were being truly honest Fatihah about the ‘koranic science’ being evidence of the divine, then would you not have to worship the Greek Galen as being the one true prophet?

 

[McBell]

This shows the level of your ignorance here. Bear with me on this.

The 'koranic science' first talked about on this thread pertains to embryo development. This knowledge was known FIVE HUNDRED YEARS before the koran was written. The following is an excerpt from the English translation of the Greek philosopher and physician Galen’s “ Corpus Medicorum Graecorum: Galeni de Semine ”


If the above sounds familiar it is probably because it was plagiarised in the koran.

So, if you were being truly honest Fatihah about the ‘koranic science’ being evidence of the divine, then would you not have to worship the Greek Galen as being the one true prophet?

No, because everyone knows that Greek Galen copied it from the Koran five hundred years before the Koran was written....

 

[The Voice of Reason]

No, because everyone knows that Greek Galen copied it from the Koran five hundred years before the Koran was written....

Come on, Mestemia - use the full name - it's the GLORIOUS Koran.

Nothing normal about that sacred text.

 

[Gharib]

Well, to say that only God could know it requires some sort of argument on your part. So far, you haven't given it, so we can't exclude the possibility that there's something other than God that knows things that humans don't.

yes i agree, angels do know about the future from say today to the same day next year untill god reveals them their duties again for the whole of the year.
but since they have no free will and are obedients and never make mistakes they will not go telling humans about what they have been told. because only god tell them when to appear to a human, and they do not break that order.
thats my argument that only god knows the future. even though the angels do aswell they do not go telling humans about it

I suppose he would, just as he knows that the false prophets of all the other religions are speaking for him as well. He doesn't correct humans when they do it; can we really assume that he definitely would correct angels or jinns when they do it?

yep, he has already done so, you said it yourself. the other false prophets have been corrected by Allah with the quran.

False dichotomy. Maybe Jibreel mumbled. Maybe Muhammad didn't have perfect hearing, but wasn't deaf. Maybe on Jibreel's day off, a jinn pretended to be Jibreel and dictated a bunch of incorrect stuff to Muhammad. Maybe Muhammad got distracted by something and then when he returned to writing, he wrote down the wrong thing. Maybe it was inadvertently mis-copied by later scribes. Maybe someone deliberately changed the text to serve their own purposes.

first i like your sense of humour and creatiity.
the angels do not have any days off.
if the jinn did do it, then god would know of it, just like he already does and brought the quran to us. (note i'm saying that the jinns may have done that to other people who have come up with other religions appart from islam, judaism and christianity)

We can come up with countless reasons for why the Quran might not be perfect.

but the problem is, it is perfect.

How do you know? Can you read the mind of God?

no i can't.

In any case, there are more possibilities than the two you gave.

yes i agree.

"Every complex problem has a simple, easy-to-understand wrong answer."

i think that may be true. i like that statement, i will use it as my signature one day, if it's ok with you?

I agree that the devil wouldn't lead humans down the right path, but this introduces a possibility you seem not to have considered: that the Quran does not lead you down the right path. Maybe Zoroastrianism is right and the Quran was created by Angra Mainyu to lead people away from Ahura Mazda. If that's the case, then it seems like it did a good job; I mean, are there any Muslims who worship Ahura Mazda?

the quran doesn't lead down the right path?
if it didn't then how did peace come to the arabs?
how was it possible for all religions to co-exist untill the crusaders came along?

all of that was because of islam.

Okay, but hypothetically, how would you determine this? What's the test that we as humans could use to tell whether two verses actually did contradict each other?

first of all, it is a scholar who determines it, us simple muslims cannot possibly understand a particular verse to the fullest. but there are some verses that we can, if we have studied them.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/contra/by_name.html

This web site claims 31 specific contradictions in the Quran. How do we go about determining whether or not these claims are correct?

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/contra/by_name.html

do you mind posting some, i can have a look at them. the only way to determine any contradiction is if they do contradict each other, as in one says "black is black" and the other says "white is black".

Sure. Maybe an example would help. There are passages in the Quran that appear to be false if you take them literally. For a specific example, consider Chapter 18, verses 86 and 90, that talk about a "setting place" and a "resting place" for the Sun as actual points on Earth.

How do you interpret these verses? Do you think that they say that the "setting place" and "resting place" of the Sun literally exist, or do you think this is metaphor, poetry, or some other style of writing that doesn't need to be taken literally?

well the thing with those verses is that when someone asks you "why is it night", you will say "the sun has setted (ie. it has gone to rest)" since you cannot see it anymore. you do not say to them it has gone to the other parts of the world (wich is exatly how it happens). see how it sort of goes, when you answer with "the sun has setted" you did not mean that the sun is resting, although it sounds that way. wich infact isn't true.
i hope that clarifies it, it isn't the best example.

All prophecy? So the Quran doesn't talk at all about events to come? The end of the world and the final judgement, for instance?

oh so thats what prophecy means, well no it isn't finished then.

 

[Gharib]

so my moving from your homeland, you admit that Western culture, ideas, laws, and way of life has created a more desirable place to live than an Islamic based society/country?

not in a milion years.
i have my reasons why i moved here, i would leave any day if i could. even now, this very moment.

I find it strange, and I've had many many conversations with muslims about this, that they strongly support Islamic ways, laws, beliefs, yet they will immigrate to pretty much any other country than that of their homeland. I"m talking Canada, US, Britian, Australia, even Russia and Eastern Europe!!!! Then to top it off, they want to introduce their own laws, religions and beliefs and oppose the very rights and freedoms which make there new country so desirable.

thats exactly right.

If Islam is so great, why aren't westerns flocking to your homeland in record numbers?

you tell me.
because you guys can't handle the government beig controled by religion. and everyone being religious, if that happened what will happen to all the boose (beer), all the night clubs, all the drugs, all those sort of stuff. i bet you that if asutralia was to be controlled by religion, 80% of the people would leave.

Why is this? Could it be the the laws and beliefs of Islam create unstable, undesirable society (overpopulation, cruety to women, lack of science/invention) etc?

no our laws do not bring unstableness to anything, you guys do not accept us for who we are, so it is the westerners who bring unstableness.
women are not treated in a cruel way, where did you hear that?
wasn't it the muslims who brought civilisation to all of europe and asia? europe was covered by the dark ages, they knew nothing.

 

[Gharib]

Rest of us? Are you saying im stupid, or brainless? I don't think so... I am not the one who thinks some chewing gum looks like foetus...

i didn't think that either, the scientist think that.

Your problem also lies with not understand evolution. You will never learn until you open up a little.

whats there to learn, to accept a lie?
what do you want me to open up a little, to the childish conclusion that monkeys became humans?
it isn't even real, if it was then why is it still called a theory?

 

[Gharib]

I don't think i know about Islam.

yes that right. you don't know anything about islam.

Ha, Muslims need to mind their own business. Wasn't it UK Muslims who wanted Sharia implemented here? Wasn't it Abu Hamza who fought to implement it? Who publicly supported the DISGUSTING Taliban, Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden? No. Because Muslims always mind their business.

so just because you heard about a story on the news, that has given you knowledge about islam has it?
told you, you know nothing.

When Muslims quit trying to change the world, we might see peace.

yes when we all stop trying, peace will come by itself.
when we muslims become like the non muslims, peace will come by itslef, and you guys wont hate us, huh? wow briliantly thought out. i hope more people aren't like you.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

...what do you want me to open up a little, to the childish conclusion that monkeys became humans?
it isn't even real, if it was then why is it still called a theory?

... and the beat goes on.

There is no chance in hell - none - that this guy is ever going to allow you to crack open his mind.

 

[Gharib]

... and the beat goes on.

There is no chance in hell - none - that this guy is ever going to allow you to crack open his mind.

you keep wondering that.

why don't you crack open yours instead to a little more reality?

 

[Sahar]

oops, i didn't know.
i never really followed that thread, there were to many complicated things and way too much writting. so i didn't know it was about the same thing.

do you want me to stop?

Eselam, in my opinion we should tackle this topic very cautiously. Focusing on this topic that much is not good, and some Muslims make errors and mistakes due to their lack of knowledge; knowledge of the Qur'an and its meanings and knowledge of the related sciences.

So any Muslim who will start a discussion about this topic should be qualified with deep knowledge about the related verses and sciences if he wanted others to criticize the content of the topic in a constructive manner. You will find most of people ridiculing but few might tackle the examples you provide and if you expect a discussion you should be qualified to handle it. Other than this, people will judge the Qur'an based on our own errors and lack of knowledge and by this we are doing more harm than good.

 

[Gharib]

Eselam, in my opinion we should tackle this topic very cautiously. Focusing on this topic that much is not good, and some Muslims make errors and mistakes due to their lack of knowledge; knowledge of the Qur'an and its meanings and knowledge of the related sciences.

So any Muslim who will start a discussion about this topic should be qualified with deep knowledge about the related verses and sciences if he wanted others to criticize the content of the topic in a constructive manner. You will find most of people ridiculing but few might tackle the examples you provide and if you expect a discussion you should be qualified to handle it. Other than this, people will judge the Qur'an based on our own errors and lack of knowledge and by this we are doing more harm than good.

yes you very right. i never thought of it in this way.
ok i will stop posting those supportive facts here, because i do not really have much knowledge on it and would not be able to comprehend some of the questions due to not understanding the quran properly.
jazakallah khairan sister. may Allah bless you inshallah and reward you with heaven. amin.

 

[Sahar]

You posted some examples and the links, right? They are for those who want to read and consider. And let the ignorants ridicule as much as they want and post things like this:

You can post also what you want on Islam Forum as long as it's from trusty sources.

 

[Gharib]

You posted some examples and the links, right?

who? me.

They are for those who want to read and consider. And let the ignorants ridicule as much as they want and post things like this:

well they are free to do what they want. no one is stopping them.

You can post also what you want on Islam Forum as long as it's from trusty sources.

you are speaking to me right?

 

[Gharib]

yeah and i forgot about the link. someone was almost about to cry like a baby if i wasn't going to post it. here it is;

Islam Guide: A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam, Muslims, & the Quran

 

[Sahar]

who? me.

Who else?