Modern Science proves the Authenticity of the Glorious Qur'an

[ProudMuslim]

Do Brits live as permanent citizens in your country and violate the laws? Do they cause violence and make your streets unsafe at night? Do your children automatically hate them because they know they have to fear them at school? That riot was against muslim and lebonese people comming to our country and making it worse. Do not criticise what you do not understand because you really have no idea.

They live as permanent residents, yes they (some not all) cause violence specially when they are drunk, they don't respect our cultural customs and think they can do whatever they want (I am talking about foreigners here inlcuding Westerners and Philippinos). In fact on top of that Westerners here are the best paid and get the highest ranked job titles. Our country's crime rates have gone up ever since it opened its doors to such people (i.e. for the first time we have assassination, muder openly at a mall park on daylight, gang robbers, brothels, etc). So now do you think we should have racist riots?

I know many Australians who were against those riots so don't pretend as if these racist riots are condoned by all Australians.

Our soldiers and engineers are rebuilding Afghanistan and Iraq. Perhaps we should leave?

Your soldiers have helped in the invasion of Iraq and that war is unjustified no matter how much you try to flip it around. Iraq does not have WMDs therefore the purpose of that war is invalid.

Convicts, thats ******* insulting. I don't call you a towel head or terrorist so grow up, your personal insults are pathetic.

And calling our countries "backward, hell holes" is not an insult? What a damn hypocrisy. I did that in purpose to give you a taste of your own medicine. 'Don't throw stones at your neighbors', if your own windows are glass. You need to grow up and watch your language before making pathetic statements.

 

[ProudMuslim]

Then again, i wasn't born in Australia i was born in New Zealand, so im not a convict anyway. Still, the post i got annoyed over was a direct personal attack aimed to insight a response.

Actually it was not a direct personal attack, I make that statement about your country in response to your statement about our countries.

Believe it or not i have close Australian friends who are dear and we always joke about the convicts and terrorists stereotypes. So i am not caught up in all this hype.

 

[darkendless]

Actually it was not a direct personal attack, I make that statement about your country in response to your statement about our countries.

Believe it or not i have close Australian friends who are dear and we always joke about the convicts and terrorists stereotypes. So i am not caught up in all this hype.

Look at Afghanistan, it is a hell hole. We want to do something about to to boost literacy rates and decrease child mortality rates. Poverty and war are all those people know. The west is trying to do something about it. Thats why its a hell hole. It has nothing to do with the fact its a "muslim country."

Oh we joke about it as well, but how am i to know what you're meaning. In the sense you were directly insulting Australians.

 

[darkendless]

They live as permanent resident, so now do you think we should have racist riots?

I know many Australians who were against those riots so don't pretend as if these racist riots are condoned by all Australians.

Do they beat your kids up in large groups? We have a joke in our country: Why did most muslim countries pull out of boxing at the olympics: Because they learnt you have to fight one on one. My friend Ahmed thinks its pretty funny, and hes a muslim from Lebanon. Even he accepts that the riots were inevitable.

Im not pretending they were condoned as well im saying i know why they happened and most people would agree that something was always going to happen.

Your soldiers have helped in the invasion of Iraq and that war is unjustified no matter how much you try to flip it around. Iraq does not have WMDs therefore the purpose of that war is invalid.

And calling our countries "backward, hell holes" is not an insult? What a damn hypocrisy. I did that in purpose to give you a taste of your own medicine. 'Don't throw stones at your neighbors', if your own windows are glass. You need to grow up and watch your language before making pathetic statements.

Are Iraq and Afghanistan not safer countries since the invasions?

Your countries? This is not an "us vs. them" arguement. To be honest i don't care if you're a muslim. You're just a person. Im not trying to insult you because you're a muslim and Afghanistan is a muslim country. I went to Croatia a few years back and i swear some of the places there are worse. Put it this way, would you want your kids growing up in Afghanistan?

Why do you think there is always arguements between muslims and non-muslims here about these topics. Its because as soon as something is said, it turns into a Muslims vs. the West. The sooner you realise that these debates aren't muslims-bashing-threads the sooner we can have a civilised discussion.

 

[ProudMuslim]

Look at Afghanistan, it is a hell hole. We want to do something about to to boost literacy rates and decrease child mortality rates. Poverty and war are all those people know. The west is trying to do something about it. Thats why its a hell hole. It has nothing to do with the fact its a "muslim country."

Oh we joke about it as well, but how am i to know what you're meaning. In the sense you were directly insulting Australians.

You said 'backward, hell hole" countries, so you understand that this statement was generalizing all of our countries. That was insulting.

Anyway, I don't criticize anyone who tries to help. But i don't buy that John Howard, Bush and Blair intention were to help. In fact they didn't even claim that when they started the war in Afghanistan (claim retaliation for Sept 11) and on Iraq (claim WMDs). And believe me the Arab leaders have their equal (if not more) share of blame and hypocrisy.

Finally i apologize for offending you. I don't have any bad intention about Australia or Australians. Some of the greatest people i have ever met happened to be Australians. But then a terrorist and a convict should 'click' :angel2:

 

[darkendless]

You said 'backward, hell hole" countries, so you understand that this statement was generalizing all of our countries. That was insulting.

Anyway, I don't criticize anyone who tries to help. But i don't buy that John Howard, Bush and Blair intention were to help. In fact they didn't even claim that when they started the war in Afghanistan (claim retaliation for Sept 11) and on Iraq (claim WMDs). And believe me the Arab leaders have their equal (if not more) share of blame and hypocrisy.

Finally i apologize for offending you. I don't have any bad intention about Australia or Australians. Some of the greatest people i have ever met happened to be Australians. But then a terrorist and a convict should 'click' :angel2:

I was referring to Iraq and Afghanistan, the two countries we invaded. I can hardly refer to the UAE and Saudi Arabia as backward hell holes, they're great countries.

I don't buy it either, but as an Australian ill admit that we followed Bush, and wen't for their reasons whatever they may have been. We have no business being there if we're not wanted. However, we are there, so we might as well do what we can to help. My cousin spent 6 months in Uruzgan province supporting and carrying out reconstruction.

Likewise no offence was intended. Im not an Islamaphobe, i have one sitting 4 feet from me throwing paper at me...... i am going to throw a chair at him though if he isn't careful.

 

[Azakel]

what did they know?
the word science?

No a lot more then just that, here an example: Science in Ancient Greece - Crystalinks

The Greeks came up with a lot of stuff we still seem to use now a days.

 

[Gharib]

No a lot more then just that, here an example: Science in Ancient Greece - Crystalinks

The Greeks came up with a lot of stuff we still seem to use now a days.

i wasn't speaking about those things, i was speaking about the child formation. did the greeks know anything on that?

 

[Gharib]

The Quran on Clouds:

Scientists have studied cloud types and have realized that rain clouds are formed and shaped according to definite systems and certain steps connected with certain types of wind and clouds.

One kind of rain cloud is the cumulonimbus cloud. Meteorologists have studied how cumulonimbus clouds are formed and how they produce rain, hail, and lightning.
They have found that cumulonimbus clouds go through the following steps to produce rain:

1) The clouds are pushed by the wind: Cumulonimbus clouds begin to form when wind pushes some small pieces of clouds (cumulus clouds) to an area where these clouds converge (see figures 17 and 18).

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Figure 17: Satellite photo showing the clouds moving towards the convergence areas B, C, and D. The arrows indicate the directions of the wind. (The Use of Satellite Pictures in Weather Analysis and Forecasting, Anderson and others, p. 188.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)​

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Figure 18: Small pieces of clouds (cumulus clouds) moving towards a convergence zone near the horizon, where we can see a large cumulonimbus cloud. (Clouds and Storms, Ludlam, plate 7.4.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)​

2) Joining: Then the small clouds join together forming a larger cloud (see figures 18 and 19).

​

Figure 19: (A) Isolated small pieces of clouds (cumulus clouds). (B) When the small clouds join together, updrafts within the larger cloud increase, so the cloud is stacked up. Water drops are indicated by ·. (The Atmosphere, Anthes and others, p. 269.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)​

3) Stacking: When the small clouds join together, updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts near the center of the cloud are stronger than those near the edges. These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so the cloud is stacked up (see figures 19 (B), 20, and 21). This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere, where drops of water and hail formulate and begin to grow larger and larger. When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc.

Figure 20: A cumulonimbus cloud. After the cloud is stacked up, rain comes out of it. (Weather and Climate, Bodin, p.123.)​

Figure 21: A cumulonimbus cloud. (A Colour Guide to Clouds, Scorer and Wexler, p. 23.)​

God has said in the Quran:
"Have you not seen how God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it.... " (Quran, 24:43)

Meteorologists have only recently come to know these details of cloud formation, structure, and function by using advanced equipment like planes, satellites, computers, balloons, and other equipment, to study wind and its direction, to measure humidity and its variations, and to determine the levels and variations of atmospheric pressure.


TO BE CONTINUED..........

 

[Gharib]

The preceding verse, after mentioning clouds and rain, speaks about hail and lightning:

"....And He sends down hail from mountains (clouds) in the sky, and He strikes with it whomever He wills, and turns it from whomever He wills. The vivid flash of its lightning nearly blinds the sight. " (Quran, 24:43)

Meteorologists have found that these cumulonimbus clouds, that shower hail, reach a height of 25,000 to 30,000 ft (4.7 to 5.7 miles), like mountains, as the Quran said, “...And He sends down hail from mountains (clouds) in the sky...” (see figure 21 above).

This verse may raise a question. Why does the verse say “its lightning” in a reference to the hail? Does this mean that hail is the major factor in producing lightning? Let us see what the book entitled Meteorology Today says about this. It says that a cloud becomes electrified as hail falls through a region in the cloud of supercooled droplets and ice crystals.

As liquid droplets collide with a hailstone, they freeze on contact and release latent heat. This keeps the surface of the hailstone warmer than that of the surrounding ice crystals. When the hailstone comes in contact with an ice crystal, an important phenomenon occurs: electrons flow from the colder object toward the warmer object. Hence, the hailstone becomes negatively charged. The same effect occurs when supercooled droplets come in contact with a hailstone and tiny splinters of positively charged ice break off. These lighter positively charged particles are then carried to the upper part of the cloud by updrafts. The hail, left with a negative charge, falls towards the bottom of the cloud, thus the lower part of the cloud becomes negatively charged. These negative charges are then discharged as lightning. We conclude from this that hail is the major factor in producing lightning.
This information on lightning was discovered recently. Until 1600 AD, Aristotle’s ideas on meteorology were dominant. For example, he said that the atmosphere contains two kinds of exhalation, moist and dry. He also said that thunder is the sound of the collision of the dry exhalation with the neighboring clouds, and lightning is the inflaming and burning of the dry exhalation with a thin and faint fire. These are some of the ideas on meteorology that were dominant at the time of the Quran’s revelation, fourteen centuries ago.

 

[Gharib]

Professor Tejatat Tejasen is the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy at Chiang Mai University, Chiang Mai, Thailand. Previously, he was the Dean of the Faculty of Medicine at the same university. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Tejasen stood up and said:

“During the last three years, I became interested in the Quran . . . . From my study and what I have learned from this conference, I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Quran fourteen hundred years ago must be the truth, that can be proved by the scientific means. Since the Prophet Muhammad could neither read nor write, Muhammad must be a messenger who relayed this truth, which was revealed to him as an enlightenment by the one who is eligible [as the] creator. This creator must be God. Therefore, I think this is the time to say La ilaha illa Allah, there is no god to worship except Allah (God), Muhammadur rasoolu Allah, Muhammad is Messenger (Prophet) of Allah (God). Lastly, I must congratulate for the excellent and highly successful arrangement for this conference . . . . I have gained not only from the scientific point of view and religious point of view but also the great chance of meeting many well-known scientists and making many new friends among the participants. The most precious thing of all that I have gained by coming to this place is La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah, and to have become a Muslim.”

 

[eugenius]

I have to say Eselam, your world views are very radical, but let me ask you this.

If you despise western culture, ideology, style, religion etc, why did you move to Australia? Why did you now stay in your home country? Why don't you return?

 

[kai]

esalam if a scientis is Muslim does that prove islam for you? dont you think there are Christian scientists and Jewish scientists and atheist scientists. Its a beleif, a faith.a religion.


List of Christian thinkers in science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of Jewish scientists and philosophers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

and how did you come to that?

Well, to say that only God could know it requires some sort of argument on your part. So far, you haven't given it, so we can't exclude the possibility that there's something other than God that knows things that humans don't.

god knows everything, so if someone or something that is non human braggs about "god said this or that" wouldn't god know of it, that an angel is speaking for god?

I suppose he would, just as he knows that the false prophets of all the other religions are speaking for him as well. He doesn't correct humans when they do it; can we really assume that he definitely would correct angels or jinns when they do it?

well if we go by what you are saying, then 2 things come to mind;
either Muhammed (saws) had hearing problems
OR
he mis-heard everything.

False dichotomy. Maybe Jibreel mumbled. Maybe Muhammad didn't have perfect hearing, but wasn't deaf. Maybe on Jibreel's day off, a jinn pretended to be Jibreel and dictated a bunch of incorrect stuff to Muhammad. Maybe Muhammad got distracted by something and then when he returned to writing, he wrote down the wrong thing. Maybe it was inadvertently mis-copied by later scribes. Maybe someone deliberately changed the text to serve their own purposes.

We can come up with countless reasons for why the Quran might not be perfect.

not lets examine them;
if he was deaf, god would not have chosen him as a prophet
if he mis-heard god would correct him or may have chosen someone who didn't mis-hear things.

How do you know? Can you read the mind of God?

In any case, there are more possibilities than the two you gave.

it doesn't get anymore simple than that.

"Every complex problem has a simple, easy-to-understand wrong answer."

DUH. angels don't have free will (islamic view). and the devil will not say to humans obey god, and hate me.

I agree that the devil wouldn't lead humans down the right path, but this introduces a possibility you seem not to have considered: that the Quran does not lead you down the right path. Maybe Zoroastrianism is right and the Quran was created by Angra Mainyu to lead people away from Ahura Mazda. If that's the case, then it seems like it did a good job; I mean, are there any Muslims who worship Ahura Mazda?

an error would be;
verses contradicting each other
verses that would need to be uptadet, since humans don't know the future, and sooner or latter what ever was written by man would need to be uptadet.

thats just some in my oppinion.

Okay, but hypothetically, how would you determine this? What's the test that we as humans could use to tell whether two verses actually did contradict each other?

This web site claims 31 specific contradictions in the Quran. How do we go about determining whether or not these claims are correct?

sorry this is too complicated for me to understand, can you say it in a less complicated way?

Sure. Maybe an example would help. There are passages in the Quran that appear to be false if you take them literally. For a specific example, consider Chapter 18, verses 86 and 90, that talk about a "setting place" and a "resting place" for the Sun as actual points on Earth.

How do you interpret these verses? Do you think that they say that the "setting place" and "resting place" of the Sun literally exist, or do you think this is metaphor, poetry, or some other style of writing that doesn't need to be taken literally?

no, the prophecy has been completed.

All prophecy? So the Quran doesn't talk at all about events to come? The end of the world and the final judgement, for instance?

 

[Gharib]

I have to say Eselam, your world views are very radical, but let me ask you this.

aren't everyone about everything?
mine aren't radical thats how things are, sorry if you don't see it that way, but i do.

If you despise western culture, ideology, style, religion etc, why did you move to Australia? Why did you now stay in your home country? Why don't you return?

i don't despise westen culture, it is the small number of psycho westerners that i don't like (not evryone, only the stereotypes) i moved here because i i have my reasons.
i will return when i want to.

 

[Gharib]

to 9-10ths Penguin

i will answer your questions tomorrow, you have made some good points. it's to late here in oz, i need some sleep. i'll see you tomorrow.

 

[eugenius]

aren't everyone about everything?
mine aren't radical thats how things are, sorry if you don't see it that way, but i do.



i don't despise westen culture, it is the small number of psycho westerners that i don't like (not evryone, only the stereotypes) i moved here because i i have my reasons.
i will return when i want to.

so my moving from your homeland, you admit that Western culture, ideas, laws, and way of life has created a more desirable place to live than an Islamic based society/country?

I find it strange, and I've had many many conversations with muslims about this, that they strongly support Islamic ways, laws, beliefs, yet they will immigrate to pretty much any other country than that of their homeland. I"m talking Canada, US, Britian, Australia, even Russia and Eastern Europe!!!! Then to top it off, they want to introduce their own laws, religions and beliefs and oppose the very rights and freedoms which make there new country so desirable. If Islam is so great, why aren't westerns flocking to your homeland in record numbers?

Why is this? Could it be the the laws and beliefs of Islam create unstable, undesirable society (overpopulation, cruety to women, lack of science/invention) etc?

 

[Azakel]

i wasn't speaking about those things, i was speaking about the child formation. did the greeks know anything on that?

No you ask if they knew more then just the word Science and I gave you that, but I'm sure they did.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

yeah instead, lets tell primary school students that humans are fom monkeys.
why do all the stupid people have the power. they make little children brainless and then they become like the rest of you when they grow up. like they ever do.

Rest of us? Are you saying im stupid, or brainless? I don't think so... I am not the one who thinks some chewing gum looks like foetus...

Your problem also lies with not understand evolution. You will never learn until you open up a little.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

no. we have to put up with people like you, who think thay know about islam and try to confuse the less educated muslims. if people like you minded their own bussiness and didn't stuff their nose into our religion, the world would be better of.

I don't think i know about Islam. Ha, Muslims need to mind their own business. Wasn't it UK Muslims who wanted Sharia implemented here? Wasn't it Abu Hamza who fought to implement it? Who publicly supported the DISGUSTING Taliban, Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden? No. Because Muslims always mind their business.

When Muslims quit trying to change the world, we might see peace.