Mohammad in the Bible...

[MyM]

Does Hosea 9:6 mention Mohammad as well? Did Memphis bury him with the silver?
What about 1 Kings, was Benhadad, king of Syria threatening to take away Muhammad from the house of King Ahab, and the houses of his servants?

The word you want to interpret, without ground or purpose other to insert your prophet into a wholly inappropriate context, is used more than once in the Bible; by what special pleading do you argue that this singular instance of the word should be understood to be a reference to Muhammad?

The word Mohammadim is indeed mentioned. This I do know. You cannot disclaim it. If I am wrong to put it in, may Allah forgive me,

**Mod edit**

But no one has the right to translate the names of people. NO RIGHT.




In the 5th chapter of the Shir haShirim ( שיר השירים ), which is one of the five megilot or Sacred Scrolls that are part of the Hebrew Bible or for short the “Song of Solomon” (also called “Song of Songs”). That chapter is giving a prophecy about an individual to come, a mystery man.

Song of Songs 5:15 compares this prophetic mystery man to the land of “Lebanon” which is the land of the Arabs. This implies that the mystery man would be an Arab.

Verse 15 of the NIV Bible says: “His appearance is like Lebanon”, so this is an Arabic gentleman (or Arab looking).

Verse 11 says: “his head is as the most fine gold, his locks are
wavy, and black as a raven”. Verse 10 describes this man as being “radiant and ruddy” which means he was slightly light-skinned with a rosy color. This physical description matches exactly with the authentic Islamic sources.
Sahih Al Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 747, says Muhammad was slightly light skinned, with a rosy color (and has the same hair as is mentioned in verse 11)



Song of Songs 5:10 says: “My beloved is white and ruddy, pre-eminent above ten thousand.” This is a prophecy of Prophet Muhammad as he conquered Mecca. It is a well known historically documented fact that in the year 630 CE Muhammad entered Mecca as the leader of an army of “ten thousand men”.

In reading the English translation of Song of Songs 5:16 it finishes the description by saying: “He is altogether lovely” but what most people don’t know is that the name of that man was given in the original megilot. Here is the name written in ancient Hebrew as it appears in verse sixteen: מחמד . It is read as : “Mahammad”.

Hebrew: חִכּוֹ, מַמְתַקִּים, וְכֻלּוֹ, מַחֲמַדִּים; זֶה דוֹדִי וְזֶה רֵעִי, בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם.

English: His mouth is most sweet; yea, he is ALTOGETHER LOVELY. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

There is a plural used together with this Hebrew word, with
the plural it’s pronounced “Mahamadd-im”. The ending letters ‘im’ is a plural of respect, majesty and grandeur for God’s prophet, just as in the word Eloh-im.

According to Ben Yehuda’s Hebrew-English Dictionary, it is correctly pronounced as “Mahammad”.

If you still don’t believe, go to these translator links, paste the name מחמד and then translate it into English. You will see that מחמד is translated as “Muhammad”.

Search | com.com

http://www.worldlingo.com

You can also see and listen to the Song of Songs in its original form, in Hebrew where Muhammad is mentioned by name in the below link (please notice the “im” in Hebrew is a plural of respect):

Song of Songs 5 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre


And Allah knows best.

 

[Harel13]

Wow, I explained and IT DOES MATTER in Islam. We don't let just any Tom Dick or Harry explain what they don't know. It isn't allowed. Muslims can speak of what they know. What they don't, they leave it to those who do. It is very serious in Islam and not just a matter of one subject. Islamic knowledge is extremely vast in its grammar, its information, its exegesis', its words, its history, its shari'ah, the entire Islamic religion isn't just based on what one knows and doesn't know. If that would be the case, it would have been another messed up religion as before. Allah forbids it. So you can judge me all you want, but when my religion tells me to not speak of what you do not know, I don't.

I don't believe you can point to anywhere in that post you replied to that shows that I judged you. I am only judging your methods of spreading the message of your religion. And yes, I am aware that authority is important in Islam. As it is in other religions.

It seems to me, in short, that for whatever reason, you are unable to present evidence for your claim that only Muslims are able to show that Islam can be traced all the way back to Muhammad while Jews and Christians cannot do the same to their respective authorities and progenitors. Too bad, I guess. Have a nice day, then.

 

[MyM]

I don't believe you can point to anywhere in that post you replied to that shows that I judged you. I am only judging your methods of spreading the message of your religion. And yes, I am aware that authority is important in Islam. As it is in other religions.

It seems to me, in short, that for whatever reason, you are unable to present evidence for your claim that only Muslims are able to show that Islam can be traced all the way back to Muhammad while Jews and Christians cannot do the same to their respective authorities and progenitors. Too bad, I guess. Have a nice day, then.

Everyone knows about the Bible and how far it goes back to. If I were arab and a scholar, I could probably provide the proof you need, but it is out of my scope. Maybe you can address that to those who know more. Doesn't mean the proof does not exist. Yes, too bad the others can't provide the same.

 

[rosends]

The word Mohammadim is indeed mentioned. This I do know. You cannot disclaim it. If I am wrong to put it in, may Allah forgive me,

You are wrong. Let's go through some things:

But no one has the right to translate the names of people. NO RIGHT.

And no one has the right to claim that verses using words are actually using names. No right.

That chapter is giving a prophecy about an individual to come, a mystery man.

No, it isn't. It is describing the man (if you see this as a literal love song) that the speaker loves. There is no mystery to that speaker. If you see this as a metaphor for the nation of Israel, then it is God for whom the people wait. Again, no mystery.

Song of Songs 5:15 compares this prophetic mystery man to the land of “Lebanon” which is the land of the Arabs. This implies that the mystery man would be an Arab.

Well, if you read WHY the comparison is made, you would see it is because he is sturdy like a tree. ("Stately as the cedars") among other things. The text says "His appearance is like Lebanon" so I guess your prophet looks like dirt. Oh, wait...is that metaphorical? But the other stuff like hair color or complexion...those are literal because your later text copied them as literal. Got it.

Song of Songs 5:10 says: “My beloved is white and ruddy, pre-eminent above ten thousand.” This is a prophecy of Prophet Muhammad as he conquered Mecca. It is a well known historically documented fact that in the year 630 CE Muhammad entered Mecca as the leader of an army of “ten thousand men”.

So you are saying that the Quran lifted descriptions from the S of S and applied them to its mythical central character so that it would appear that the character was foretold in the earlier texts? Heck...I thought only Christians did that! Thanks!

Meanwhile, the object of affection is described in the book as a whole -- are you saying that all the other descriptions apply to your Muhammad character because his mom lifted the name from the Hebrew word?

In reading the English translation of Song of Songs 5:16 it finishes the description by saying: “He is altogether lovely” but what most people don’t know is that the name of that man was given in the original megilot. Here is the name written in ancient Hebrew as it appears in verse sixteen: מחמד . It is read as : “Mahammad”.

You say it is read as "Mahammad" but it isn't. Under the chet is a chataf patach which reduces the length of the "ah" sound. Also, the verse has the word "mach'a'madim" so unless your claim is that the text has a singular, it doesn't have the name you claim.

Hebrew: חִכּוֹ, מַמְתַקִּים, וְכֻלּוֹ, מַחֲמַדִּים; זֶה דוֹדִי וְזֶה רֵעִי, בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם.

Yes, the plural, not the name. Great. Thanks.

There is a plural used together with this Hebrew word, with
the plural it’s pronounced “Mahamadd-im”. The ending letters ‘im’ is a plural of respect, majesty and grandeur for God’s prophet, just as in the word Eloh-im.

Really? The plural is "respect"? You mean like in all the places where Moses and God are mentioned in the singular? And you know that the -im ending in one of the names of God is not actually plural (as signalled by the singular verb that goes with it), right? I mean, I know a little Hebrew, and I'm a "Jewish Rabi." Best listen to what I have to say.

According to Ben Yehuda’s Hebrew-English Dictionary, it is correctly pronounced as “Mahammad”.

The plural is pronounced as the singular? Can you show me, or is this just a claim you copied and pasted from elsewhere and have chosen to believe?

If you still don’t believe, go to these translator links, paste the name מחמד and then translate it into English. You will see that מחמד is translated as “Muhammad”.

I went to Google translate and the Hebrew turned into the word "allowed"

No mention of a name.
Milon Morfix has "machmad" (with a full shvan, not a chataf patach) and it doesn't translate it as a name. In fact, it has a separate entry for Muchmad which it connect to your prophet figure

So your claims, as attested to by this "Jewish Rabi" are wrong.

So howzabout instead of copying and pasting stuff from other websites (I found the content of your post on a variety of other sites...) maybe assess what the websites say, research it and ask questions about the stuff you don't understand so that you don't look so foolish.

 

[MyM]

You are wrong. Let's go through some things:


And no one has the right to claim that verses using words are actually using names. No right.


No, it isn't. It is describing the man (if you see this as a literal love song) that the speaker loves. There is no mystery to that speaker. If you see this as a metaphor for the nation of Israel, then it is God for whom the people wait. Again, no mystery.

Well, if you read WHY the comparison is made, you would see it is because he is sturdy like a tree. ("Stately as the cedars") among other things. The text says "His appearance is like Lebanon" so I guess your prophet looks like dirt. Oh, wait...is that metaphorical? But the other stuff like hair color or complexion...those are literal because your later text copied them as literal. Got it.


So you are saying that the Quran lifted descriptions from the S of S and applied them to its mythical central character so that it would appear that the character was foretold in the earlier texts? Heck...I thought only Christians did that! Thanks!

Meanwhile, the object of affection is described in the book as a whole -- are you saying that all the other descriptions apply to your Muhammad character because his mom lifted the name from the Hebrew word?


You say it is read as "Mahammad" but it isn't. Under the chet is a chataf patach which reduces the length of the "ah" sound. Also, the verse has the word "mach'a'madim" so unless your claim is that the text has a singular, it doesn't have the name you claim.

Yes, the plural, not the name. Great. Thanks.

Really? The plural is "respect"? You mean like in all the places where Moses and God are mentioned in the singular? And you know that the -im ending in one of the names of God is not actually plural (as signalled by the singular verb that goes with it), right? I mean, I know a little Hebrew, and I'm a "Jewish Rabi." Best listen to what I have to say.

The plural is pronounced as the singular? Can you show me, or is this just a claim you copied and pasted from elsewhere and have chosen to believe?

I went to Google translate and the Hebrew turned into the word "allowed"

View attachment 60874

No mention of a name.
Milon Morfix has "machmad" (with a full shvan, not a chataf patach) and it doesn't translate it as a name. In fact, it has a separate entry for Muchmad which it connect to your prophet figure
View attachment 60875


So your claims, as attested to by this "Jewish Rabi" are wrong.

So howzabout instead of copying and pasting stuff from other websites (I found the content of your post on a variety of other sites...) maybe assess what the websites say, research it and ask questions about the stuff you don't understand so that you don't look so foolish.

Yes, I got this from a website, but I also believe in the trueness of the video from a revert who is now does dawa. I said, if I am wrong, I am wrong. But the rabbi himself said it....his friend.

 

[rosends]

Yes, I got this from a website, but I also believe in the trueness of the video from a revert who is now does dawa. I said, if I am wrong, I am wrong. But the rabbi himself said it....his friend.

And I'm a rabbi who is not a revert and I say otherwise. So you are wrong.

By the way, do you believe all things rabbis say? You do know that rabbis, many years ago, said that teh time of prophecy ended centuries before your supposed prophet was born so rabbis said he couldn't have been a prophet. Or do you only trust "Jewish Rabis" when they something you like?

 

[Link]

Quran is anti-everyone who doesn't follow the truth out of love of world and ego breathed from Satan.

 

[Mister Emu]

The word Mohammadim is indeed mentioned. This I do know...

...According to Ben Yehuda’s Hebrew-English Dictionary, it is correctly pronounced as “Mahammad”.

If you still don’t believe, go to these translator links, paste the name מחמד and then translate it into English. You will see that מחמד is translated as “Muhammad”.

You didn't answer the question. The word you are wanting to interpret as a reference to Muhammad is used more than once in the Bible. Are we to translate it as Muhammad every time? If not, why should we single out this instance as Muhammad, other than your own desire to bolster the status of your prophet, while others are properly translated? If so, what is the meaning behind Hosea prophesying that Memphis would bury Muhammad with their silver or why was Benhadad, king of Syria, threatening to take Muhammad from the house of King Ahab?

Simply put, it is absurd to suggest that Benhadad was threatening to take Muhammad, a man not to be born for almost 2000 years, out of the house of Ahab. There is a translation of the word you want to say refers to Muhammad by name, and it is proper to use that translation. Your claim that you can't translate some word that someone thousands of years later would use as a name is without merit.

 

[Link]

I don't think Quran ever said the name of Mohammad (s) is in Torah or Gospels or books between. Even his name in the Gospels is close to Mohammad (S) but is more closer "the appreciated one" as opposed to praised. Comforter is alternative translation but was not original for years till recently. However, you find his Prophecy in there.

But what is interesting is that a nickname of Mohammad (s) is "Habeeballah" also in Ziyarat Auli-Yaseen we say "There is no beloved except him and his family".

Abraham is called "Friend of God", Moses "Spoken (a lot) to by God" Isa "The spirit of God" (Ruhallah) and Mohammad (S) "Habeeballah" when those are recalled.

What is interesting is how Hebrew work, Mohammad (S) (the Praised wholly) and "Habeeb" (beloved wholly) are both from the same word in Hebrew, and can be translated as both. In fact our love of God and praise of God means God is the beloved, and to praise God means to love God.

Finding him in the Torah and Gospels and book between, though, doesn't require his name be there. See my previous post about Ismail, twelve princes, the one who God will send, God's response with Aaron, and one like Moses to come, all contextualizing each other to be a Prophecy regarding Mohammad (S). That is the clear case in the Torah.

In the Gospels, just see comforter and what Quran has said about the spirit/holy spirit/the guides by the truth.

 

[MyM]

You didn't answer the question. The word you are wanting to interpret as a reference to Muhammad is used more than once in the Bible. Are we to translate it as Muhammad every time? If not, why should we single out this instance as Muhammad, other than your own desire to bolster the status of your prophet, while others are properly translated? If so, what is the meaning behind Hosea prophesying that Memphis would bury Muhammad with their silver or why was Benhadad, king of Syria, threatening to take Muhammad from the house of King Ahab?

Simply put, it is absurd to suggest that Benhadad was threatening to take Muhammad, a man not to be born for almost 2000 years, out of the house of Ahab. There is a translation of the word you want to say refers to Muhammad by name, and it is proper to use that translation. Your claim that you can't translate some word that someone thousands of years later would use as a name is without merit.

I said it was translated as altogether lovely.

anyways, the name Mohammad SHOULD never have been translated-no one has that right. But they have done that throughout the entire Bible. Names are names and they should never be translated into another meaning or name. Example, Jesus name isn't even Jesus. It's EESA. (on him peace) Abraham's name is Ibraheem, Jacob's is Yacoob, David is Dawood etc. etc. etc. Point is, you cannot tell which passages of the Bible are 100% accurate to even make claims of exact stories. Was in the song of solomon.

 

[Link]

I said it was translated as altogether lovely.

anyways, the name Mohammad SHOULD never have been translated-no one has that right. But they have done that throughout the entire Bible. Names are names and they should never be translated into another meaning or name. Example, Jesus name isn't even Jesus. It's EESA. (on him peace) Abraham's name is Ibraheem, Jacob's is Yacoob, David is Dawood etc. etc. etc. Point is, you cannot tell which passages of the Bible are 100% accurate to even make claims of exact stories. Was in the song of solomon.

This has to do with how language integrates other language words. We don't know original name of Abraham or Noah. Noah for example is Hebrew while Noah didn't speak Hebrew. Adam is also not the name of Adam, it's Hebrew meaning of Adam which was spoken definitely in a different language.

I don't see problem with the translation, the text could have said "and his name is..." but that's not what it said. At most, this an allusion to Mohammad's (s) name and titles of Mohammad (wholly praised)and Habeeb (the beloved).

The description of that song, if you keep in mind the exalted ones Adam (S) wished to be one of, is definitely one of those souls, since, he is wholly beloved/praised. This is a description of Mohammad (s), but it didn't say "his name is Mohammad". Keep in mind the general Prophecies of the "the one who God will send" and this coincides with Mohammad's (s) name and so can be used as evidence part of cumulative case.

What is the name of the "the one who God will send", well this song is a huge allusion to it.

 

[MyM]

I don't think Quran ever said the name of Mohammad (s) is in Torah or Gospels or books between. Even his name in the Gospels is close to Mohammad (S) but is more closer "the appreciated one" as opposed to praised. Comforter is alternative translation but was not original for years till recently. However, you find his Prophecy in there.

But what is interesting is that a nickname of Mohammad (s) is "Habeeballah" also in Ziyarat Auli-Yaseen we say "There is no beloved except him and his family".

Abraham is called "Friend of God", Moses "Spoken (a lot) to by God" Isa "The spirit of God" (Ruhallah) and Mohammad (S) "Habeeballah" when those are recalled.

What is interesting is how Hebrew work, Mohammad (S) (the Praised wholly) and "Habeeb" (beloved wholly) are both from the same word in Hebrew, and can be translated as both. In fact our love of God and praise of God means God is the beloved, and to praise God means to love God.

Finding him in the Torah and Gospels and book between, though, doesn't require his name be there. See my previous post about Ismail, twelve princes, the one who God will send, God's response with Aaron, and one like Moses to come, all contextualizing each other to be a Prophecy regarding Mohammad (S). That is the clear case in the Torah.

In the Gospels, just see comforter and what Quran has said about the spirit/holy spirit/the guides by the truth.

“And (remember) when ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah unto you, confirming the Tawraat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.’ But when he (Ahmad, i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said: ‘This is plain magic’” al-Saff 61:6

“Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)— he commands them for Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khabaa’ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allah’s Covenant with the children of Israel), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Quran) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful”
al-A’raaf 7:157


“And (remember) when ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allaah unto you, confirming the Tawraat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.’ But when he (Ahmad, i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said: ‘This is plain magic’” al-Saff 61:6


These two verses indicate that Mohammad pbuh was indeed mentioned in the Torat and the Injil no matter how much they claim he is not. Allah never lies and always speaks the truth.

 

[Link]

“And (remember) when ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah unto you, confirming the Tawraat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.’ But when he (Ahmad, i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said: ‘This is plain magic’” al-Saff 61:6

“Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)— he commands them for Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khabaa’ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allah’s Covenant with the children of Israel), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Quran) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful”
al-A’raaf 7:157


“And (remember) when ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allaah unto you, confirming the Tawraat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.’ But when he (Ahmad, i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said: ‘This is plain magic’” al-Saff 61:6


These two verses indicate that Mohammad pbuh was indeed mentioned in the Torat and the Injil no matter how much they claim he is not. Allah never lies and always speaks the truth.

Mohammad (s) is found in the Torah and Gospels by me and many people. However, his name is not. His name is alluded to, it's never said "his name is...".

 

[MyM]

This has to do with how language integrates other language words. We don't know original name of Abraham or Noah. Noah for example is Hebrew while Noah didn't speak Hebrew. Adam is also not the name of Adam, it's Hebrew meaning of Adam which was spoken definitely in a different language.

I don't see problem with the translation, the text could have said "and his name is..." but that's not what it said. At most, this an allusion to Mohammad's (s) name and titles of Mohammad (wholly praised)and Habeeb (the beloved).

The description of that song, if you keep in mind the exalted ones Adam (S) wished to be one of, is definitely one of those souls, since, he is wholly beloved/praised. This is a description of Mohammad (s), but it didn't say "his name is Mohammad". Keep in mind the general Prophecies of the "the one who God will send" and this coincides with Mohammad's (s) name and so can be used as evidence part of cumulative case.

What is the name of the "the one who God will send", well this song is a huge allusion to it.

names that integrate into another language can be made with very minute differences but no one has the right for substitutions. No one. But when you read the Quran, Allah says how they are pronounced and that is what we are to go by.

 

[MyM]

Mohammad (s) is found in the Torah and Gospels by me and many people. However, his name is not. His name is alluded to, it's never said "his name is...".

I rest my case

 

[Link]

names that integrate into another language can be made with very minute differences but no one has the right for substitutions. No one. But when you read the Quran, Allah says how they are pronounced and that is what we are to go by.

God knows how language works. So when talking to Arabs, he talks in the Arabicized versions of the Hebrew names. Quran was revealed in context of these names being established by Hebrew and Torah and Gospels having had an impact on society.

 

[Link]

As far Hebrew words, they are context based but sometimes all three meanings are implied. Why can't this both imply Mohammad (S) and Habeeb? Of course, why do does the Sunnah emphasized Mohammad (s) is Habeeballah?

It's not that any of these are a mistranslations, they are double implications of each other and so both meanings of the word can be retained here.

 

[MyM]

As far Hebrew words, they are context based but sometimes all three meanings are implied. Why can't this both imply Mohammad (S) and Habeeb? Of course, why do does the Sunnah emphasized Mohammad (s) is Habeeballah?

It's not that any of these are a mistranslations, they are double implications of each other and so both meanings of the word can be retained here.

Because in the English language, no one would EVER FIGURE THAT OUT AS BEING MOHAMMAD. It's not how the English language works. You never substitute a name into a meaning of a name when it is mentioned as the name.

 

[Link]

Because in the English language, no one would EVER FIGURE THAT OUT AS BEING MOHAMMAD. It's not how the English language works. You never substitute a name into a meaning of a name when it is mentioned as the name.

That's true. But a bit of research into the Hebrew, and it's clear Mohammad (S) and Habeeb are from the same word. However, the verse didn't say and "and his name is...". Keep that in mind. It's describing him.

 

[MyM]

That's true. But a bit of research into the Hebrew, and it's clear Mohammad (S) and Habeeb are from the same word. However, the verse didn't say and "and his name is...". Keep that in mind. It's describing him.

no it was describing but it mentioned his name. But Allah says it was mentioned so we as Muslims must accept it.