Mohammad in the Bible...

[Link]

no it was describing but it mentioned his name. But Allah says it was mentioned so we as Muslims must accept it.

Surah Inshirah for example alludes to but doesn't explicitly state the following names:

Samuel (by the name of God..)
Nuh (relief (nashrah))
Ali and Haroun(raised your remembrance) (this goes back to Surah Taha and the prayer in there for Haroun)
Seth (fansab (so set/establish)

Seth (a) is not mentioned in Quran but this a huge allusion to his name, and I can explain why. However Seth is not explicitly in Quran anywhere.

If you keep in mind the paraphrasing of Musa (a) prayer and the words "We know your breast is constrained by what they say", then these are allusions to successorship.

The second last verse "fansab" means set/establish like setting a flag on the ground but in terms of the Alamal Huda (the sign/flag of guidance). Seth came from set by God and was the successor of Adam (a).

We can say Torah alludes to name of Ali, Songs of Sulaiman to name Mohammad, Gospels to both but that there names are not explicitly there.

 

[Wildswanderer]

In Islam, Allah says, they have changed the their books with their hands.

The Song of Solomon....mentions the name of Mohammad and the Bible translated it as "altogether lovely".

This is a question you should ask your translators.

"His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, this is my friend, daughters of Jerusalem"

Um that's about Solomon her lover, not some dude that lived in a cave and had a weird dream.

 

[Mister Emu]

I said it was translated as altogether lovely.

anyways, the name Mohammad SHOULD never have been translated-no one has that right.

Should I take this as a refusal to address what I've asked? Why are we to believe this instance of the word is the name of Muhammad?

I'll add another question. Can you point to any source before the rise of Islam suggesting that it was a name?

Names are names and they should never be translated into another meaning or name.

Now you're just showing ignorance of language; some languages simply don't have the same sounds. A Japanese ら, り, る, れ, or ろ don't have an equivalent sound in English, to print a name containing any of those in English is necessarily to change the sounds that will be pronounced when you say it. Jesus is the same, Greek and then Latin don't have the proper sound constructs to actually convey the name as pronounced in Hebrew.

What you're saying is that names should never be written in languages outside of their own family group, which is another absurdity. Why shouldn't I write the name of the savior in Greek or Latin?

 

[MyM]

"His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, this is my friend, daughters of Jerusalem"

Um that's about Solomon her lover, not some dude that lived in a cave and had a weird dream.

read the Hebrew.

 

[Debater Slayer]

read the Hebrew.

Like a few Hebrew-speaking members have done before explaining why your claim is incorrect? Why should anyone believe your assertion despite that?

 

[MyM]

Should I take this as a refusal to address what I've asked? Why are we to believe this instance of the word is the name of Muhammad?

I'll add another question. Can you point to any source before the rise of Islam suggesting that it was a name?


Now you're just showing ignorance of language; some languages simply don't have the same sounds. A Japanese ら, り, る, れ, or ろ don't have an equivalent sound in English, to print a name containing any of those in English is necessarily to change the sounds that will be pronounced when you say it. Jesus is the same, Greek and then Latin don't have the proper sound constructs to actually convey the name as pronounced in Hebrew.

What you're saying is that names should never be written in languages outside of their own family group, which is another absurdity. Why shouldn't I write the name of the savior in Greek or Latin?

if you translate names as close to the sound, people will accept them. You don't translate THEIR MEANING. duh...If mr kanute was written in a different way I would not go in a meeting and say this is the CEO "altogether lovely". That is what I am saying. Simple. I know the Arabic alphabet from front to back. I know they have no equivalent letters to match the sounds of the letters in Arabic. But we match them as closely as we can. Like AHmed. His name has a strong H and coming from a different place than the H we say in the English language. But we spell it still with an h or maybe stress it with a capital letter. BUT WE DON'T TRANSLATE THE MEANING.

So you are actually telling me to quote from a source that doesn't agree with Islam to find his name lol. seriously? Try History and in the Song of Solomon. You won't find many trust me, but Mohammad pbuh was foretold from all the prophets. They knew. It is stated in the Quran which you obviously dislike so much. That book hasn't changed over 1400 years now NOT ONE LETTER. Still same as it was revealed. Now tell me, does Judaism and Christianity, can they hold such a claim-especially when nothing was ordered to be written down during their time? When you can't understand the Hebrew text or the Greek texts to know what is translated correctly or not?

 

[MyM]

Like a few Hebrew-speaking members have done before explaining why your claim is incorrect? Why should anyone believe your assertion despite that?

Well known Rabbi read it clearly. You can hear it. Even the song of solomon was describing a man to come...an Arab. .... they of course can have their own thoughts and sayings just like the Christians do with their relation to Isiah and Jesus. It can't be proven. It's all conjecture. I'm not here to demean anyone's religion. I am just pointing out things where people believe compared to what people are reading and saying.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Well known Rabbi read it clearly. You can hear it. Even the song of solomon was describing a man to come...an Arab. .... they of course can have their own thoughts and sayings just like the Christians do with their relation to Isiah and Jesus. It can't be proven. It's all conjecture. I'm not here to demean anyone's religion. I am just pointing out things where people believe compared to what people are reading and saying.

You've had at least two rabbis respond to your claims in this thread. Not sure what your point is.

And it seems to me that you're clearly not treating it as mere conjecture when you're repeating and asserting the claim so strongly. If it's mere conjecture, what makes you care so much about it?

 

[MyM]

You've had at least two rabbis respond to your claims in this thread. Not sure what your point is.

And it seems to me that you're clearly not treating it as mere conjecture when you're repeating and asserting the claim so strongly. If it's mere conjecture, what makes you care so much about it?

You can see that many don't like Islam. Many don't care about Islam and will do anything to disclaim it. It has been shown in the past and in the present.` So naturally, people will believe and say what they were taught. They have their claims, the other rabbi has his. The Zionist also claim they are Jews and yet the orthodox Jews don't accept them and curse them. So not everyone thinks the same. Doesn't mean someone isn't right.

I care about it because history often repeats itself and then later on down the line new truths come forward and are found. Allah swt says in the Quran, which is still unchanged for over 1400 years now, not one letter has been changed, that people of the book-the Jews and Christians have changed and written their books with their own hands. Now, I say to myself, "Amazing, I would rather follow a book that is still in tact and no one proves it unchanged since it was brought down by revelation, and then the other books have no backing of substance when it comes to their claims and it clearly shows" So, naturally, the obvious is to believe and test that belief. It's been a rude awakening. So I do care that when something comes around, even a little that can wake people up a bit, to share in the last message before it's too late. Before you are standing in front of your Creator being judged and filled with regret. This is the answer to your question. I am only a believer in Islam, no one special.

 

[Wildswanderer]

read the Hebrew.

Song of Solomon is a love poem. It's not prophecy.
I can decide that:
"I compare you, my love,
to a mare among Pharaoh's chariots.
10 Your cheeks are lovely with ornaments,
your neck with strings of jewels."

Is actually about the girl in had a crush on in 10th grade, but Solomon had someone else in mind.
Deciding the beloved is Muhammad is just bizarre and amusing.

 

[firedragon]

Well known Rabbi read it clearly. You can hear it. Even the song of solomon was describing a man to come...an Arab. .... they of course can have their own thoughts and sayings just like the Christians do with their relation to Isiah and Jesus. It can't be proven. It's all conjecture. I'm not here to demean anyone's religion. I am just pointing out things where people believe compared to what people are reading and saying.

Have you read the context of this verse? Can you explain how the prophet Muhammed fits in?

 

[Mister Emu]

if you translate names as close to the sound, people will accept them. You don't translate THEIR MEANING. duh

You're the one who brought up the name Jesus and said it was an improper change. Duh.

Names are names and they should never be translated into another meaning or name. Example, Jesus name isn't even Jesus

So you are actually telling me to quote from a source that doesn't agree with Islam to find his name lol. seriously?

No, I specifically said before Islam. You can't disagree with what doesn't exist yet. Duh.

For instance you bring up Christian beliefs related to the prophecies of Isaiah:

hey of course can have their own thoughts and sayings just like the Christians do with their relation to Isiah and Jesus.

I can show you that there were people who existed before Christianity that had the same beliefs as Christians regarding the relationship of Isaiahan prophecy to the messiah. Christians didn't just come in and ad hoc create a new way of understanding Isaiah.

I think what you'll find is that Muslims whole-cloth manufactured self-serving interpretation of passages that no one ever before thought of as prophecy in the manner you want to claim. Muslims combed through the what existed before with the goal of finding what they wanted, and that's why you can't point out any forward looking people from before Muhammad that thought those writings told of someone who was to come. No one ever thought that Jesus saying He would send the comforter among his flock meant a new prophet to create a new religion. No one ever thought Song of Solomon was about a prophet who would come later. These ideas didn't exist until Muslims felt the need to bolster Muhammad's claim and when they couldn't find any reference to Muhammad had to invent them.

 

[Harel13]

The Zionist also claim they are Jews and yet the orthodox Jews don't accept them and curse them.

Read my profile. I'm both Orthodox and a Zionist. Explain that one to me.

It seems likely that you won't be able to, because so far it seems you don't know much about both Judaism and Israel.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The greatest issue about Prophecy, is that those who follow a Messenger and a book, find it hard to accept that the future Messenger is foretold in a manner they have not considered.

Centuries of worship and practice have set the mind on specific traditions that they see need to be fulfilled. But if we look at the History of religion, God has never miraculously revealed a Messenger so all immediately accept that Messenger. In fact those they say they are believers, usually face the greatest tests of Faith.

This brings us back to the Bible and prophecy.

There is indeed 3 Messengers foretold in the Bible thay will appear after Jesus the Christ. The issue is that, there will only be a handful that are ready to accept the advent of a Messenger. Those that do get to view the previous scriptures in the Light of a New Message from Allah, and as a result can see in the past Message more of what was being offered in prophecy.

Muhammad is indeed in the Bible, but the quandary is that to see that, the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah are also needed.

The year AH1260, which is AD1844, is the key to all three of those Messages, it is also the clearest Prophecy given at any point in history to date.

The Two Witnesses are Muhammad and Ali and it is foretold that that Message will endure for 1260 years.

"And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. (Revelation 11:3-4)"

Ezekial chapter 4 verses 5 and 6 establish "each day for a year". . "and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days; I have appointed thee each day for a year."

This Message, given by Muhammad is also the "First Woe".

In the end Prophecy uses outward symbols and words to portray spiritual concepts, thus what is required is for us to look deeply within to find meaning.

Like Muhammad and Ali being the two olive trees and the two lampstands, here is an example of what this may portray.

If we meditate upon that symbolism, we can consider that an olive tree denotes a Messenger and from this we can derived an understanding when considering that an olive trees grow to a great age, they have an awesome span, they are a tree of beauty and have a majestic height, what's more they also give life-giving fruits. The bonus is, as a bearer of olives, it is also the source of olive oil used in lamps, and thus a source of light, to which these two Messengers were also the Lampstands that give light.

Regards Tony

 

[MyM]

Song of Solomon is a love poem. It's not prophecy.
I can decide that:
"I compare you, my love,
to a mare among Pharaoh's chariots.
10 Your cheeks are lovely with ornaments,
your neck with strings of jewels."

Is actually about the girl in had a crush on in 10th grade, but Solomon had someone else in mind.
Deciding the beloved is Muhammad is just bizarre and amusing.

and in christianity is it contributed to Jesus and the human soul and church....(if you do your research)
in Judaism between Israel and God and read on passover....

and in Islam, we say Mohammad...since it is to be an Arab.

 

[Wildswanderer]

and in christianity is it contributed to Jesus and the human soul....(if you do your research)

No it's a good metaphor for Jesus' love perhaps, but it's literally about Solomon and his bride.

 

[MyM]

Read my profile. I'm both Orthodox and a Zionist. Explain that one to me.

It seems likely that you won't be able to, because so far it seems you don't know much about both Judaism and Israel.

I admit I am not knowing a lot about your religion, but I do know about Israel. Being an orthodox zionist is a first for me. Usually the really orthodox is against the state of Israel and are in constant conflict with them. They only accept the What they know of Torah and the religious laws. I can't explain that and that is very unusual since it doesn't rarely occur. I do know about Hilonim(secular), Masortim(traditional), Datiim(religious) and Haredim(really orthodox).

 

[MyM]

No it's a good metaphor for Jesus' love perhaps, but it's literally about Solomon and his bride.

Many Christians don't believe that.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Many Christians don't believe that.

Show me one Christian who doesn't believe song of Solomon was literally written about Solomon and his bride.... They might believe it has other meanings also.

 

[MyM]

Have you read the context of this verse? Can you explain how the prophet Muhammed fits in?

Yes, I have read it
The 5th song of Solomon is discussing a man. His face is as Lebonon-meaning arab looking. Semitic man. Verse 11 says his head is most like fine Gold, his locks are wavy and as black as raven. verse 10 describes this man as radiant and ruddy which means light skinned with a rosy color. This can be confirmed in Sahih Al Bukhari vol 4 book 56, #747. Which says, Mohammad was lightly skinned and a with rosy color and also the same hair as in verse 11. In verse 14 describes the man having a stomach like ivory. Mohammad had white armpits, he had garments of white in color. Sahih Al Bukhari vol 2, book 17, #141.

But besides this, the name is there Mohamed. It could be any man but when you read the name, it says Mohamad. The name is written in Hebrew-the same exact way Mohammad's name is written in Hebrew. There is no denying that.

Ben Yehuda Hebrew Dictionary defines, as lovely coveted one, precious one, "praised one". The correct way to say Praised One in Arabic is Mohammad pbuh.