More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows

[Shadow Wolf]

The "cowboy fantasy" is just the hoplophobe's straw man.

No, it's not, because those fantasies are the only places where the "good guy with a gun" idea works, and the reality is not even that period in history was as relaxed about guns as we are today. In reality, the open carry we allow today back then would have been begging for trouble and wasn't allowed in many cities, but yet we have this fantasy of the "good guys with guns" being up against the "wild frontier" and politically the NRA is trying to merge that fantasy with reality.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, it's not, because those fantasies are the only places where the "good guy with a gun" idea works, and the reality is not even that period in history was as relaxed about guns as we are today. In reality, the open carry we allow today back then would have been begging for trouble and wasn't allowed in many cities, but yet we have this fantasy of the "good guys with guns" being up against the "wild frontier" and politically the NRA is trying to merge that fantasy with reality.

The popular (& historically warped) image of the wild west isn't what gun rights types advocate.
Armed self defense happens often, & is not of the shoot'm-up variety which hoplophobes pretend.

 

[idav]

The popular (& historically warped) image of the wild west isn't what gun rights types advocate.
Armed self defense happens often, & is not of the shoot'm-up variety which hoplophobes pretend.

The likelihood of actually firing from a home invasion is .0000002 which is practically 0. People are far more likely to use the gun for a homicide, suicide or get injured from accidental discharge. Gun rights are great but let’s not pretend it makes it safer or that it’s for “defense”. Thats a psychology thing, I know someone sleeps with a gun under the pillow, whatever helps you haplophiles sleep at night.

 

[Revoltingest]

The likelihood of actually firing from a home invasion is .0000002 which is practically 0. People are far more likely to use the gun for a homicide, suicide or get injured from accidental discharge. Gun rights are great but let’s not pretend it makes it safer or that it’s for “defense”. Thats a psychology thing, I know someone sleeps with a gun under the pillow, whatever helps you haplophiles sleep at night.

I don't have a gun because of the possibility of home invasion.
It's related to work.
Although I've lessened that risk in recent years.
But others in other areas would have different concerns.

 

[esmith]

I don't have a gun because of the possibility of home invasion.
It's related to work.
Although I've lessened that risk in recent years.
But others in other areas would have different concerns.

I have always believed in the old adage "it is better to have a gun and not need it and need it and not have it". (or words to that affect)

 

[Revoltingest]

I have always believed in the old adage "it is better to have a gun and not need it and need it and not have it". (or words to that affect)

Aye, it's like property insurance (but with a trigger instead of a subrogation clause).

Btw, you mean "effect".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

From the NRA
NRA on Twitter

Just another example of gun-control activists showing their true colors. Not only do they want to strip people of their #2A rights, but they also diminish people's life experiences in a way that is unbecoming. #TuesdayThoughts #smh

Diminish people's life experiences in unbecoming ways? What is being diminished? And in what ways are they unbecoming?

Armed self defense happens often, & is not of the shoot'm-up variety which hoplophobes pretend.

It does happen. But we also have a "shoot'm up" reality that is America. And overall gun laws are dangerously over relaxed in many states and notoriously finicky in some. More guns for a gun problem like using more coke to treat a coke problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

From the NRA
NRA on Twitter

Diminish people's life experiences in unbecoming ways? What is being diminished? And in what ways are they unbecoming?

It does happen. But we also have a "shoot'm up" reality that is America. And overall gun laws are dangerously over relaxed in many states and notoriously finicky in some. More guns for a gun problem like using more coke to treat a coke problem.

Clearly, Americastan would benefit from more training, more secure storage, & a safer attitude towards guns.
Will you support my becoming dictator, & imposing this upon the unwilling?

 

[esmith]

Aye, it's like property insurance (but with a trigger instead of a subrogation clause).

Btw, you mean "effect".

yep

 

[leibowde84]

I don't think it was at all secret.
In a campaign, politicians give simplistic messages. Saying "wall" is exactly that.
But every sentient voter sees thru that, expecting implementation to be more complex.

The "wall" being obviously a slogan, it's obvious even to the most casual observer that
there are locations where the terrain itself presents a good physical barrier, & that in such
places, a patrolled border with sensors would be most cost effective. If this is obvious to
even me, then it would be so to Trump & his associates.

What evidence do you have that I'm wrong?
After all, my "wall" expectations have been borne out, unlike yours.

Too many anti-Trumpers get caught up in their own histrionics....."he's stupid"...."he's
irrational"....he's <insert insult here>. They get caught up in believing such rhetoric,
but then they underestimate him. Don't be one of them.

You are conveniently ignoring the FACT that Trump has been repeatedly asked about it, and he ALWAYS says that he is referring to a physical barrier. They are testing wall designs as we speak. This is a real wall. I would have agreed with you 6 months ago, but now it has been made all to clear that Trump is so far gone with pleasing his loyal followers that he is willing to build physical, real, literal wall.

 

[leibowde84]

as you pointed out.....putting guns in someone else's hand is fraught with judgment call
especially if it's not THEIR idea

gun dealers have the same problem.....
'well.....he looked ok to me......and the paper work was routine'

the real problem......
keeping guns away from the unstable of mind

got any ideas?

Not putting more guns in schools would be the obvious first step. Then make it more difficult to get high powered, high capacity weapons that are so hard to fight back against with handguns, but make sure that the police have ready access to them. Then use federal funds to reopen treatment centers, but make sure they are more humane than they were before, because insane asylums were good in theory but horrible in reality.

 

[esmith]

You are conveniently ignoring the FACT that Trump has been repeatedly asked about it, and he ALWAYS says that he is referring to a physical barrier. They are testing wall designs as we speak. This is a real wall. I would have agreed with you 6 months ago, but now it has been made all to clear that Trump is so far gone with pleasing his loyal followers that he is willing to build physical, real, literal wall.

Could his stance be a barging chip?
He says "I want a physical wall along the border", other side says "No" only where there is an existing physical structure that is in need of repair". Trump, "I want a physical wall where the Border Patrol says it will be the most effective, and a form of a technical wall along other parts that the Border Patrol says it is needed". other side says "That will work".
Both sides can say they won.

 

[esmith]

Not putting more guns in schools would be the obvious first step. Then make it more difficult to get high powered, high capacity weapons that are so hard to fight back against with handguns, but make sure that the police have ready access to them. Then use federal funds to reopen treatment centers, but make sure they are more humane than they were before, because insane asylums were good in theory but horrible in reality.

Why would it not be advisable to have trained school staff to have access to firearms? I would say your point would be workable if there was only one access to a school, and that access was protected physically and electronically. Response time of the authorities is in minutes, not instantly, and lives would be lost in the event of a armed intruder.
Your comment that handguns are not effective against a rifle is incorrect in many aspects, one of which is that a intruder does not know if they will be confronted with an armed person, hence they have to be more cautious in their approach. The other factor is that the idea of assaulting an area by oneself against the known fact that there are armed personnel probably will detour said attack. These shooters on the most part are cowards and are not willing to put their life in danger, unless they are willing to die, and we have seen that they flee or surrender when confronted.

 

[Revoltingest]

You are conveniently ignoring the FACT that Trump has been repeatedly asked about it, and he ALWAYS says that he is referring to a physical barrier.

You're mistaken.
I don't ignore what he says....I recognize that he tosses out provocative ideas which mask real intentions.
It appears to be a mix of negotiating strategy, simplistic campaigning, & works in progress.

They are testing wall designs as we speak. This is a real wall.

Think you'll see a continuous border of a physical wall?
I don't.

I would have agreed with you 6 months ago, but now it has been made all to clear that Trump is so far gone with pleasing his loyal followers that he is willing to build physical, real, literal wall.

There will be a physical wall, as I expected.
But it won't be continuous or solely that.

Let's make a wager....
Loser has to post a $100 bill for the winner.

 

[Thief]

Not putting more guns in schools would be the obvious first step. Then make it more difficult to get high powered, high capacity weapons that are so hard to fight back against with handguns, but make sure that the police have ready access to them. Then use federal funds to reopen treatment centers, but make sure they are more humane than they were before, because insane asylums were good in theory but horrible in reality.

I think return fire the immediate answer to an immediate threat

 

[leibowde84]

Could his stance be a barging chip?
He says "I want a physical wall along the border", other side says "No" only where there is an existing physical structure that is in need of repair". Trump, "I want a physical wall where the Border Patrol says it will be the most effective, and a form of a technical wall along other parts that the Border Patrol says it is needed". other side says "That will work".
Both sides can say they won.

You are basing this off nothing more than speculation. There is no evidence that Trump is or could ever think like that. He just wants to keep his followers in check and happy.

 

[leibowde84]

I think return fire the immediate answer to an immediate threat

Ok, and I am saying, putting more guns in schools will mean many more "immediate threats". Any gains from having "good", "trained" teachers with guns will be outweighed by the increase in threats by simply having more guns in a crowded school with thousands of kids.

 

[leibowde84]

Think you'll see a continuous border of a physical wall?
I don't.

There will be a physical wall, as I expected.
But it won't be continuous or solely that.

Let's make a wager....
Loser has to post a $100 bill for the winner.

I will take that wager, but I never suggested that Trump was saying that the wall would be continuous. That would be physically and legally impossible. I don't think he ever even made that promise.

 

[Revoltingest]

I will take that wager, but I never suggested that Trump was saying that the wall would be continuous. That would be physically and legally impossible. I don't think he ever even made that promise.

So we both agree that there would be a partial physical wall.
Would we also agree that a "wall" could comprise sensors &
the capability to respond, but with no physical in places?

 

[leibowde84]

So we both agree that there would be a partial physical wall.
Would we also agree that a "wall" could comprise sensors &
the capability to respond, but with no physical in places?

No. Trump has gone in so deep on this one, constantly bragging about how he is going to IN FACT build a physical wall, if he went back on this one, he would look stupid even to his followers.