More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows

[leibowde84]

how about able bodied and willing to shoot back

If you put guns in the hands of teachers, you will be putting guns in the hands of honorable teachers AND those hiding in the profession who are NOT decent people. Like every other profession, there are honorable teachers, there are cowardly teachers, and there are deplorable teachers. It's stupid to put more guns in schools. Outside the school, maybe, but we all saw that didn't even work. Only other option is to attempt to make it much harder to get high powered rifles.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why do you think it is reasonable to assume all of these things about what Trump is secretly thinking.

I don't think it was at all secret.
In a campaign, politicians give simplistic messages. Saying "wall" is exactly that.
But every sentient voter sees thru that, expecting implementation to be more complex.

The "wall" being obviously a slogan, it's obvious even to the most casual observer that
there are locations where the terrain itself presents a good physical barrier, & that in such
places, a patrolled border with sensors would be most cost effective. If this is obvious to
even me, then it would be so to Trump & his associates.

What evidence, specific to Trump (because we all know he is nothing like any other past politician), do you have to support these assumptions. They seem completely unreasonable to me, as you are assuming rational thoughts from an obviously irrational man.

What evidence do you have that I'm wrong?
After all, my "wall" expectations have been borne out, unlike yours.

Too many anti-Trumpers get caught up in their own histrionics....."he's stupid"...."he's
irrational"....he's <insert insult here>. They get caught up in believing such rhetoric,
but then they underestimate him. Don't be one of them.

 

[idav]

I don't think it was at all secret.
In a campaign, politicians give simplistic messages. Saying "wall" is exactly that.
But every sentient voter sees thru that, expecting implementation to be more complex.

The "wall" being obviously a slogan, it's obvious even to the most casual observer that
there are locations where the terrain itself presents a good physical barrier, & that in such
places, a patrolled border with sensors would be most cost effective. If this is obvious to
even me, then it would be so to Trump & his associates.

What evidence do you have that I'm wrong?
After all, my "wall" expectations have been borne out, unlike yours.

Too many anti-Trumpers get caught up in their own histrionics....."he's stupid"...."he's
irrational"....he's <insert insult here>. They get caught up in believing such rhetoric,
but then they underestimate him. Don't be one of them.

You give the average voter too much credit, your not the average voter.

 

[Revoltingest]

You give the average voter too much credit, your not the average voter.

No, I've a low opinion of the average voter.
(After all, Hillary had a plurality of votes.)
But remember that I did say "sentient" voters.

Tell me....did you think he meant a continuous physical wall?

 

[Thief]

If you put guns in the hands of teachers, you will be putting guns in the hands of honorable teachers AND those hiding in the profession who are NOT decent people. Like every other profession, there are honorable teachers, there are cowardly teachers, and there are deplorable teachers. It's stupid to put more guns in schools. Outside the school, maybe, but we all saw that didn't even work. Only other option is to attempt to make it much harder to get high powered rifles.

as you pointed out.....putting guns in someone else's hand is fraught with judgment call
especially if it's not THEIR idea

gun dealers have the same problem.....
'well.....he looked ok to me......and the paper work was routine'

the real problem......
keeping guns away from the unstable of mind

got any ideas?

 

[idav]

No, I've a low opinion of the average voter.
(After all, Hillary had a plurality of votes.)
But remember that I did say "sentient" voters.

Tell me....did you think he meant a continuous physical wall?

There you go demonizing Clinton more, showing you buy slander as much as the average.

It sounded like that’s what Trump meant and many took it as such.

 

[Revoltingest]

There you go demonizing Clinton more, showing you buy slander as much as the average.

First of all, if written, it's "libel", not "slander" (which is spoken).
Secondly, have some fun....it's not libel.....it's a joke!

It sounded like that’s what Trump meant and many took it as such.

But I asked you for your inference.

 

[idav]

First of all, if written, it's "libel", not "slander" (which is spoken).
Secondly, have some fun....it's not libel.....it's a joke!

But I asked you for your inference.

My immediate reaction to the wall thing from Trump was it sounded stupid.

 

[Revoltingest]

My immediate reaction to the wall thing from Trump was it sounded stupid.

'
It sounded stupid to me too.
But then I think that of nearly all campaign promises, which are
complexity distilled into something the average voter will listen to.

What did you think he intended....an actual continuous wall?
Or something more sophisticated?

 

[idav]

'
It sounded stupid to me too.
But then I think that of nearly all campaign promises, which are
complexity distilled into something the average voter will listen to.

What did you think he intended....an actual continuous wall?
Or something more sophisticated?

I thought he was as dumb as the stuff he spouted, after all he wears his heart in his sleeve. I think it took some talking to for him to realize the complexities. “Nobody knew a wall could be so complicated” lol. I joke, that’s what he said about medical insurance but I think you get my point.

 

[Revoltingest]

I thought he was as dumb as the stuff he spouted, after all he wears his heart in his sleeve. I think it took some talking to for him to realize the complexities. “Nobody knew a wall could be so complicated” lol. I joke, that’s what he said about medical insurance but I think you get my point.

So you inferred from what he said, just a continuous physical wall?

 

[idav]

So you inferred from what he said, just a continuous physical wall?

I think Trump says what he thinks and feels without giving it too much thought. It wasn’t til much later that the wall turned into a combination of fencing and then even much much later to include electronic surveillance. It turned into what we already have currently, big shocker.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think Trump says what he thinks and feels without giving it too much thought. It wasn’t til much later that the wall turned into a combination of fencing and then even much much later to include electronic surveillance. It turned into what we already have currently, big shocker.

I think you misunderestimate him.

 

[idav]

I think you underestimate him.

Well I even gave a separate example.

 

[idav]

By the same logic that people use on guns I think they should use on cars as they do with trucks right now. Government checkpoints so many miles, limited to how many hours you can drive a day based upon fatigue statistics (that would be great for the Greenies who want to lower vehicle emissions to cut down on greenhouse gas), mandatory breaks for the combat of fatigue, Health regulations that must be adhered to and be issued a medical certification saying you are healthy enough mentally and physically for driving, and subject to weigh stations and random inspection stops via patrol car. Oh and don't forget to maintain your electronic log book. ;0)

You do realize that we have all sort of laws regarding cars and driving because of how dangerous they are?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It's perfectly okay and acceptable for people to die in vehicle incidents and occurrences en masse, but it's not perfectly ok and acceptable if somebody dies by firearm which statistically is far fewer.

Because it's not like cars are built and designed for a specific, non-killing function which they achieve millions of times a day for people on an extremely regular basis without anybody being hurt or killed. No, the comparison between the two is perfectly valid provided you literally ignore everything they are intended for and the actual ratio at which their use results in injury or death.

But, hey, who needs to look at all the available facts, right? Those things are for losers.

It's completely idiotic to blame guns themselves nor should it be even a consideration when there is so much out there aside from guns that people can be used effectively to take human life.

Question is, how many of those things are specifically designed for that function? I'd be delighted if armies around the world put down their guns and started fighting exclusively with outdoor hatchbacks. Would make for far more interesting combat zones!

What I see here is people willing to take people's gun rights away but God help anybody if their car should ever be under the same stringent scrutiny as guns are.

God forbid we put stricter regulations on something designed and build for the purpose of literally killing people rather than something else that is designed and built for an entirely non-killing purpose (ignoring all the regulations we put on it anyway).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That so many are dedicated to eliminating our main voice for gun rights is telling.

Perhaps if they got new leadership that didn't parrot the tried-and-failed "good guys with guns" approach people wouldn't be so against them. I even know some NRA-certified safety instructors who loathe what the NRA is politically. Their political goals are basically to turn America into a Wild West Cowboy fantasy. Like arming teachers. We need to address the problems that lead to the calls for arming teachers, rather than just arming them and calling it a fix, as it will fix nothing.

 

[Revoltingest]

Perhaps if they got new leadership that didn't parrot the tried-and-failed "good guys with guns" approach people wouldn't be so against them. I even know some NRA-certified safety instructors who loathe what the NRA is politically. Their political goals are basically to turn America into a Wild West Cowboy fantasy. Like arming teachers. We need to address the problems that lead to the calls for arming teachers, rather than just arming them and calling it a fix, as it will fix nothing.

The "cowboy fantasy" is just the hoplophobe's straw man.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The "cowboy fantasy" is just the hoplophobe's straw man.

The "hoplophobe" is just the fantasy cowboy's straw man.

 

[Revoltingest]

The "hoplophobe" is just the fantasy cowboy's straw man.

You need to string words together in a more understandable fashion.