Mormon Church refuses to bless children of Same-Sex Couples.

[Kirran]

If we do not describe God as we experience God, and by such labels, then we cannot describe Him at all. And if we cannot describe God at all, He is useless and worthless to all of us

We can describe God. We just shouldn't get too caught up in those descriptions, because they're our conceptualisations.

 

[JoStories]

Well we certainly shouldn't hate. But there will always be problems like that as we insist on everybody living together... so either we will have some hating others, or we will have people bottling thigns up, and that can lead to problems later. Either way, there are medical things to consider with homosxuality and I think it completely wrong to say that it is normal to any child. There's nothing normal about it. Isn't that why the word "queer" arrived in the first place.
Man and woman produce life. Anything else is an adulteration.

How are we 'living together'? Other than some alleged Christian couples I can name who have over populated the world single handedly, how are we living together? As for 'medical things' with homosexuality, I presume you mean STD's and those diseases are as prevalent among straights as gays. And please, spare me your apologist rhetoric about HIV and AIDS. As far as children are concerned, you are welcome to your opinion, however, my cousin and his husband are raising two beautiful boys who no one wanted and who, as it turns out and in direct opposition to your ideals, are straight. I refuse to even consider your remark about the epithet you mentioned. And many straight couples don't have children. Or can't. Shall we damn them to hell as well in the name of your god?

 

[JoStories]

The "Mormons" who practice polygamy are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the denomination this thread is about). Polygamy is an excommunicable offence in the Church.

Of course there are racist Latter-day Saints, but that doesn't mean the Church encourages or even condones racism. There is nothing that is going to change the fact that "racism is alive and well all over America," but Mormons are taught that all races of people are equal. As a matter of fact, in 2012, the Church issued an official statement saying that it , "unequivocally condemns racism, including any and all past racism by individuals both inside and outside the Church.”

Oh, Jo, there are tens of thousands of Black American Mormons. And if you go outside of the US, that number jumps to hundreds of thousands. If you'd like to verify the existence of Black American Mormons, please take a look at this thread. (I'm sorry that the font on that site is going to be difficult for you to read.)

A couple of things...First, thank you for increasing the font size. It is a welcome relief and a sign of a very compassionate person. And also thank you for the refreshingly civil tone you use.
Now, I agree that those who practice polygamy have been cast out but according to them, they are Mormons and most likely a very problematic issue for the church. As for racism, I also agree its everywhere. I am glad to hear you teach acceptance. Unity Church accepts all and all faiths. I love that Church and find it refreshing.
As for the last, I traveled extensively for a living before I retired. And I do mean extensively. In all that time, and it was in Utah, Vegas, and even outside the US, I never once encountered a Black Mormon however, I stand corrected and enlightened by you. Mea Culpa.

 

[JoStories]

Then I assume you are against all indoctrinating of children. Teaching is indoctrination. Families have rules. Societies and governments have rules. God has rules. if you are to learn those rules, and have any hope of obedience to those rules, you must be indoctrinated.

I think racism is fine, so long as you have good reason for your racism.
I think coercion is fine, so long as you have good cause to coerce.

I am against the indoctrination of children too young to understand or grasp abstract concepts before they are able. And that would include religion, which by its very nature is abstract. You will note that children are taught in increasingly more abstract as their brains become able to do so. Hence, simple math before trig, or dick and jane before Shakespeare. You think racism is fine? And coercion? I believe I have never heard such ridiculous statements. Carry on with your racism then. But do it without me.

 

[JoStories]

Why are the democrats proselytizing the citizens of the United States with regard to gun control?
Why are the democrats proselytizing us with regard to gay rights?
It works both ways. We want a society of God fearing people. And we will likely continue proselytizing our beliefs until you all believe as we do. Its what we do. Its what you do.

Because gun control is a necessary first step to stopping the heinous crime rates we have here. The US is NOT a theocracy and those like me will never be a part of a 'god fearing country'. Nor will I EVER follow your faith.

 

[JoStories]

I don't believe you.

Why on earth not? My parents let me learn about many types of faiths, as I did with my children, when they were old enough to understand. My son is a Druid and my daughter, a Christian. My father was an atheist, my mother is a devout Christian, and I am Buddhist. What is so hard to believe about a parent being forward thinking enough to encourage their children to follow their hearts in this matter?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

.....God is surely ultimately beyond our ability to describe.

I would hope so, because otherwise we just end up with crude anthropomorphism, projecting out our limited human ideas and opinions. Like for example: "My religion is homophobic, so God must homophobic too."

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I see your opinion, you saw mine. We can leave it at that.

In terms of this thread? Sure. I agree further discussion is probably fruitless for us both. Ironically we'd probably also both agree that not all opinions are created equal.

 

[JoStories]

In terms of this thread? Sure. I agree further discussion is probably fruitless for us both. Ironically we'd probably also both agree that not all opinions are created equal.

I'm curious why you think that Lewis. I try to listen to all opinions, even those that get me steamed. No one should have their opinions stopped, however, I would love to see some, like the KKK and the Fred Phelps, that church in Florida..the name escapes me at the moment, I would love to see their speeches of hate and derision and the like stopped immediately. They have nothing of interest, at least for me. But what opinions do you think are more equal?

 

[JoStories]

I would hope so, because otherwise we just end up with crude anthropomorphism, projecting out our limited human ideas and opinions. Like for example: "My religion is homophobic, so God must homophobic too."

Agreed Norman but isn't that just man's attempt to justify their own agendas? God, IMO, has nothing whatsoever to do with the ...I will refrain from a word I would use in the interest of not insulting some here, but God has nothing to do with these things. Nothing at all.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Agreed Norman but isn't that just man's attempt to justify their own agendas? God, IMO, has nothing whatsoever to do with the ...I will refrain from a word I would use in the interest of not insulting some here, but God has nothing to do with these things. Nothing at all.

The idea that a supreme being would have any interest in what people get up to in the bedroom is ludicrous to me. To me the behaviour of the Mormon Church here is totally against Christ teachings, it's just petty bigotry, childish school-yard behaviour.

People talk about what it says in the Old Testament, but that is just a dubious iron-age text written by a bunch of patriarchal homophobes, describing a vengeful and tyrannical God. I have read some sublime ancient religious texts, for example in the Dharmic traditions, but by comparison the Old Testament looks crude, barbaric and horribly simplistic.

 

[Robert.Evans]

By "keeping the commandments", does that include the prohibition of pork, shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics, rotating crops, speaking to menstruating women, etc.? There is nothing to applaud about cherry picking and double standards.

Quite right. But atheists are just as guilty of cherry picking without any discernment of judgement. However, you must recall now that they would be under Christ's law, for the old law was nailed to the cross.

 

[Robert.Evans]

But everyone is a sinner, are they not? Why only focus on the "gay" sinners?

Some sins are more obvious

 

[Robert.Evans]

I don't have much to add to this thread, and this might be a derail, but...no. Racism is not fine. Ever.

Anything can be "race". The definition has been shortened nowadays, mostly to control a group of people, usually white, and to stop the blacks (usually) from rioting. You are being "racist" right now in stating YOUR opinion. Ideas, beliefs, families, all are "race". Think again.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I would agree and further add that coercion isn't fine either.

Like forcing your children to eat their greens when they want sweets. Fine.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Perhaps then, I should amend my statement to indicate that I mean to say that coercion is not fine in the context of religious beliefs (especially in regard to children) and in the sharing and exchange of ideas and opinions.

So what indoctrination should you give to children then? If you say none, does that mean no schooling then?

 

[Robert.Evans]

You're not listening then. I would encourage my child to think for herself and come to her own conclusions about whether or not she believes in god(s).

And how (assuming she is young) would she do that? And how would you not allow your own beliefs to influence your child? And considering you should only be asking then to believe and be good to people, is that really such bad advice to give children?

 

[Robert.Evans]

That's a shame, because I speak the truth.

You can only speak the truth as you see it though, can't you. It might still be a lie ultimately.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Anything can be "race". The definition has been shortened nowadays, mostly to control a group of people, usually white, and to stop the blacks (usually) from rioting. You are being "racist" right now in stating YOUR opinion. Ideas, beliefs, families, all are "race". Think again.

This is a laughably poor attempt to muddy the waters. It always strikes me as incongruous when people rail at liberal fluff (not that I'm liberal, but...you know...painted with the atheist brush), but do so in a completely fluffy manner. Let's just go with a simple definition of racism, okay...

racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
noun

1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
   "theories of racism"
   • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
     "a programme to combat racism"
     synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia,chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance;

Source : Just googled Racism and used the definition that came up.

By all means feel free to tell me one of the two following things;
1) Based on the definition of racism, indicate when this is appropriate.
2) Indicate any reason you would have for thinking I use 'racism' as a codeword for some left-leaning 'let's all sit around and dwell on our terrible white guilt' crap

It would be easier, by far, if you just addressed me on this, and not whatever liberal biases you think have repossessed usage of the term.

 

[Robert.Evans]

First, thank you for increasing the font size. It is a welcome relief and a sign of a very compassionate person

So we should all do that now for you? Why don't you decrease it and show your compassion for us? You must have to increase it to read it.