Mosque at Ground Zero

[Kathryn]

And yet you felt the need to post this? Here's an idea: If it's that bad to you, just stop reading it.

Nyah, I'll keep reading it - and keep posting my opinions.

It's kinda like not being quite able to tear my eyes away from the Maury Povich or Jerry Springer show when I'm held captive at the nail salon. It's not that I really CARE what the people are saying - it's just that I'm a bit bored and slightly entertained by the weirdness.

Like I said, carry on!

 

[Kathryn]

Someone's building a mosque here? Really? This is the first I've heard of it.
Where are they building it...not some sacred & politically explosive place, I hope?
I've got to tell Kathryn ASAP! (Mosques are her special interest.)

OMG are you ******** ME?????? Someone somewhere is building a MOSQUE! Someone call Rupert Murdoch - he needs to know about this.

Break out the hookahs, folks - we're gonna need 'em.

 

[Kathryn]

I have no idea what kind of research they did, or what information was available, regarding possible public opinion regarding their project. All that I'm saying, and the only thing I've been saying all along, is that if your goal is, in fact, to bring people together, and at this early stage, what you're doing is having the opposite effect, then it makes sense to reassess the situation to see if there are any ways to adjust what you're doing, in order to meet your goals.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...Kilgore, Kilgore, Kilgore - since when did common sense win an argument on this forum - let alone in the political forum at large?

You're so calm, and making so much sense that it's..well, it's...almost unseemly.

It'll never work.

 

[beenie]

There were meetings and discussions. There alway are. Building permits are generally not issued without a period for public input. Unfortunately these seem to have occurred before Rupert Murdoch decided to spin the decision to benefit the Republicans. Seems the knuckle draggers are not very good at paying attention to what is going on in their community in a timely fashion, preferring to simply do whatever Glenn Beck advises.

this is a good point as well, and that's why i'm so damn torn on this issue. perhaps, since this really is a sensitive issue (there's no way they didn't know this would ruffle feathers even if there are other mosques in the area), they (the proposers) could have evaluated public opinion informally first. they certainly would have gotten a feel for what they would face. after getting that feedback, they could have approached this slightly differently. yes, they have a right to build it, and i hope they are given an opportunity to improve interfaith relations...perhaps it could have been handled a bit more sensitively at the onset. you're right, they shouldn't HAVE to, but knowing how the media works and how emotional people are, it would have been a smart move, IMO.

i have to admit, i am a bit concerned about the security of the center should it be built, but that's a whole different issue.

 

[Badran]

The problem is what is it that they can do now if they want to reassess their position?

Building the center elsewhere won't improve anything, on the contrary.

 

[beenie]

The problem is what is it that they can do now if they want to reassess their position?

Building the center elsewhere won't improve anything, on the contrary.

agreed. that's why i said things should have been evaluated more at the beginning, not now.

 

[YmirGF]

The problem is what is it that they can do now if they want to reassess their position?

Building the center elsewhere won't improve anything, on the contrary.

They could try to be the leaders in the dialogue. Sadly, the trio behind the proposal have shown that they are not up to the task they have set out.

What puzzles me is why people would think that a Sufi Imam can speak for Islam. At best, he may be able to speak for a very small faction of Muslims worldwide. It's not like many Sunni or Shia scholars are going to sit up and pay much attention.

 

[Magic Man]

There were meetings and discussions. There alway are. Building permits are generally not issued without a period for public input. Unfortunately these seem to have occurred before Rupert Murdoch decided to spin the decision to benefit the Republicans. Seems the knuckle draggers are not very good at paying attention to what is going on in their community in a timely fashion, preferring to simply do whatever Glenn Beck advises.

Exactly. What people are missing is that this center has been in the process of being built for over a year. As Mayor Bloomberg said on The Daily Show, it's only such a big deal now because of the impending elections.

From Wikipedia:

Protests were initially sparked by a campaign launched by conservative[10] bloggers Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer, opponents of political Islam and founders of the group Stop Islamization of America.[11][12] Geller and Spencer are not only opponents of mosque facilities near Ground Zero, but also personally organized opposition to a mosque project in Staten Island.[10] In addition, SIOA lends its support to community protests of mosque projects in Brooklyn, in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, in Rutherford County, Tennessee, and in Sheboygan County, Wisconsin.[13]

Even sources like Fox News were OK with it last December, before the controversy was really started.

[youtube]KWceHzEZT0g[/youtube]
YouTube - Laura Ingraham 'Mosque' Hypocrisy Exposed

So, no, they shouldn't change course now just because some people went fear- and hate-mongering. Especially since it's pretty much guaranteed that once elections are over, it will become a non-issue. What they need to do is send the message that they won't back down to hatred and bigotry, the things they're trying to fight in the first place.

 

[Magic Man]

this is a good point as well, and that's why i'm so damn torn on this issue. perhaps, since this really is a sensitive issue (there's no way they didn't know this would ruffle feathers even if there are other mosques in the area), they (the proposers) could have evaluated public opinion informally first. they certainly would have gotten a feel for what they would face. after getting that feedback, they could have approached this slightly differently.

But that's the thing. By all indications before this May or so, they were supported. As I just showed, even a conservative like Laura Ingraham on Fox News applauded their efforts and liked what they were doing. It was only when some people wanted to whip up a controversy later on, and started calling it "Mosque at Ground Zero" that the opinions started to turn against them. It's a completely fabricated controversy that not only didn't come up before they decided to buy and plan the building, but also didn't come up until several months after they had bought and planned the building.

The reaction they're receiving isn't because of what they're doing; it's because of how others are twisting what they're doing, and they shouldn't let those conservatives win.

 

[Sufi]

They could try to be the leaders in the dialogue. Sadly, the trio behind the proposal have shown that they are not up to the task they have set out.

What puzzles me is why people would think that a Sufi Imam can speak for Islam. At best, he may be able to speak for a very small faction of Muslims worldwide. It's not like many Sunni or Shia scholars are going to sit up and pay much attention.

Sufi's are Sunni Muslims the majority of Muslims are Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamaah (Sunni) and belong/adhere to a school/tariqa of Tasawwuf(Sufism).

 

[Badran]

They could try to be the leaders in the dialogue. Sadly, the trio behind the proposal have shown that they are not up to the task they have set out.

May be they didn't do as good as they should've done in regards to dialogue, i don't know. But i don't see dialogue resulting in anything positive anyway, in regards to those who oppose the center. As they are either bigots or misinformed. I don't think any dialogues would change their minds.

I'm not saying they shouldn't seek dialogue and so on, but i'm saying i don't think it would have any serious effect with those who really oppose the center.

What puzzles me is why people would think that a Sufi Imam can speak for Islam. At best, he may be able to speak for a very small faction of Muslims worldwide. It's not like many Sunni or Shia scholars are going to sit up and pay much attention.

Him being a Sufi doesn't mean he can't speak for muslims. As he is representing a general idea, not really concerned with particular sects.

 

[logician]

Is this still an issue?

 

[Magic Man]

Nyah, I'll keep reading it - and keep posting my opinions.

It's kinda like not being quite able to tear my eyes away from the Maury Povich or Jerry Springer show when I'm held captive at the nail salon. It's not that I really CARE what the people are saying - it's just that I'm a bit bored and slightly entertained by the weirdness.

Like I said, carry on!

Of course you're welcome to keep posting that the thread you keep reading sucks and bores you to death. It just doesn't reflect well on you when you not only keep reading something that upsets you and bores you, but that you feel the need to whine to the rest of us about it.

 

[Magic Man]

They could try to be the leaders in the dialogue. Sadly, the trio behind the proposal have shown that they are not up to the task they have set out.

In what way haven't they been? It's not like they've been silent.

What puzzles me is why people would think that a Sufi Imam can speak for Islam. At best, he may be able to speak for a very small faction of Muslims worldwide. It's not like many Sunni or Shia scholars are going to sit up and pay much attention.

What puzzles me is your desperate attempts to rationalize your position. Who said they're trying to speak for Islam? They're just trying to speak for moderate Muslims like themselves.

 

[beenie]

But that's the thing. By all indications before this May or so, they were supported. As I just showed, even a conservative like Laura Ingraham on Fox News applauded their efforts and liked what they were doing. It was only when some people wanted to whip up a controversy later on, and started calling it "Mosque at Ground Zero" that the opinions started to turn against them. It's a completely fabricated controversy that not only didn't come up before they decided to buy and plan the building, but also didn't come up until several months after they had bought and planned the building.

The reaction they're receiving isn't because of what they're doing; it's because of how others are twisting what they're doing, and they shouldn't let those conservatives win.

i wasn't aware they supported it at the beginning. i guess i caught the story once it had already erupted into the fiasco it is today.

 

[kai]

In what way haven't they been? It's not like they've been silent.



What puzzles me is your desperate attempts to rationalize your position. Who said they're trying to speak for Islam?

They're just trying to speak for moderate Muslims like themselves.

after all they can only speak for themselves.

 

[Magic Man]

i wasn't aware they supported it at the beginning. i guess i caught the story once it had already erupted into the fiasco it is today.

Yes, you, me and the rest of America. That's the worst part. This was going on for a long time and people were just fine with it, and then election season came around, and suddenly there's a "mosque being built at Ground Zero"!

 

[YmirGF]

after all they can only speak for themselves.

And that is the point that so very few understand, Kai.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Exactly. What people are missing is that this center has been in the process of being built for over a year. As Mayor Bloomberg said on The Daily Show, it's only such a big deal now because of the impending elections.
From Wikipedia:

Even sources like Fox News were OK with it last December, before the controversy was really started.

[youtube]KWceHzEZT0g[/youtube]
YouTube - Laura Ingraham 'Mosque' Hypocrisy Exposed

So, no, they shouldn't change course now just because some people went fear- and hate-mongering. Especially since it's pretty much guaranteed that once elections are over, it will become a non-issue. What they need to do is send the message that they won't back down to hatred and bigotry, the things they're trying to fight in the first place.

But that's the thing. By all indications before this May or so, they were supported. As I just showed, even a conservative like Laura Ingraham on Fox News applauded their efforts and liked what they were doing. It was only when some people wanted to whip up a controversy later on, and started calling it "Mosque at Ground Zero" that the opinions started to turn against them. It's a completely fabricated controversy that not only didn't come up before they decided to buy and plan the building, but also didn't come up until several months after they had bought and planned the building.

The reaction they're receiving isn't because of what they're doing; it's because of how others are twisting what they're doing, and they shouldn't let those conservatives win.

Good posts. Thanks Mball.

 

[EtuMalku]

One of the investors in a proposed Islamic center near ground zero is a Long Island medical clinic owner whose expressions of sympathy for Palestinians included a donation to a charity later shut down for links to Hamas.
Read The Associated Press: Backer of NYC mosque gave to Hamas-linked charity