Mosque at Ground Zero

[Autodidact]

This is america, if you own the land and got the money, you can usually build it.

Thank you.

 

[kiwimac]

G-D of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, etc does not have a son and gave Israel to Jews not Arabs, nor did he turn Jews in to apes and pigs, see the difference?

Actually it is to Muslims Allah it is the G-D of the Jews but not the other way.

Can you explain the underscored to me please as I have no idea what you mean?

 

[YmirGF]

The same could be said of your credibility, Olbermann obviously either goes over your head, or you're an over the cliff RWer who enjoys the FOX hate machine.

I think my credibility is fully intact, logician. I am normally quite supportive of your viewpoint, so my contempt for your previous post should tell you something. For the record, I watch very little television... and very little American television. American TV is simply beneath my standards. I never watch Fox. Perhaps you should set your bar a tad higher.

 

[YmirGF]

This is america, if you own the land and got the money, you can usually build it.

The reality is that they do not own all the land and they currently do not have the financing in place. One financial analyst I was listening to the other day said that the people he deals with are beginning to think it is all just a publicity stunt and will never be built.

 

[Kathryn]

Well, I'll summarize once again:

1. This is not a national decision. This is a zoning decision for the city of New York.

2. If NYC determines that the mosque can be built, let 'em build it.

3. Investigate the source of funding.

4. Monitor the activities if suspicious activities or persons begin to emerge.

5. Go on wid cho bad seffs.

 

[TashaN]

Well, I'll summarize once again:

1. This is not a national decision. This is a zoning decision for the city of New York.

2. If NYC determines that the mosque can be built, let 'em build it.

3. Investigate the source of funding.

4. Monitor the activities if suspicious activities or persons begin to emerge.

5. Go on wid cho bad seffs.

Is this the same procedure that Christians have to go through when they want to build a Church?

Just remember that Muslim Americans are not asking for your charity or your pity, they are an equal citizens and what apply to them should be applied to you and everybody, or it will be a discrimination, and a violation of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

[Kathryn]

Is this the same procedure that Christians have to go through when they want to build a Church?

Just remember that Muslim Americans are not asking for your charity or your pity, they are an equal citizens and what apply to them should be applied to you and everybody, or it will be a discrimination, and a violation of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Yes, to my knowledge this is the same procedure.

All large buildings must go through a zoning department to receive permission to be built.

Nearly all municipalities offer a system in which local residents who oppose a proposed building can protest that building peacefully and legally. Sometimes, in spite of the legalistic "right" to build something, municipalities will decide to bar a proposed plan because of local dissent.

For instance, a builder here wanted to build duplexes in a newly developed section of my neighborhood. Was it legal? Yes. But the local homeowners went to City Hall and presented their case, which was that duplexes built within this neighborhood would devalue the existing homes. The city determined in our favor, and the builder was not able to build duplexes. He had to build single family homes.

All funds for large constrution sites are subject to determination of origin as they make their way through the banking system.

All of us in the US live under the Patriot Act and other various laws that kick in if suspicious, seditious behavior becomes apparent.

 

[tumbleweed41]

So when a large new church or religious based facility is being built, donations are scrutinized?
Do you have an example of this?

Lets say for example, a large facility is built to house the Focus on the Family organization. After passing all zoning laws in Colorado Springs, were their funds, as a non-profit organization, scrutinized?

 

[logician]

I think my credibility is fully intact, logician. I am normally quite supportive of your viewpoint, so my contempt for your previous post should tell you something. For the record, I watch very little television... and very little American television. American TV is simply beneath my standards. I never watch Fox. Perhaps you should set your bar a tad higher.

Olbermann backs up all of his stories with well researched facts, plus interviews with intelligent and respected people that know their stuff, unlike 90 percent of the rest of the so-called journalists on TV and in the newspapers who are nothing but propaganda pushers. If you have a problem with his persoanality, all right, but he is a great journalist.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

3. Investigate the source of funding.

4. Monitor the activities if suspicious activities or persons begin to emerge.

That is laughable. I have seen methheads at a YMCA, and while meth is far more of a threat to society that Islam, that building isn't being monitored. Some churches have some very bizzare and even dangerous practices, but other than a spot on Ripleys they aren't being watched.
As for funding, there are plenty of other things that arise suspicion and should raise some red flags, yet those are over looked for various reasons.

 

[Autodidact]

You know I'm strongly in favor of this project, but I have to agree with Kathryn. The fact is that many Muslim organizations in the U.S. have received and funneled money to and from terrorist organizations, Hamas, Fatah and worse. This included purely "charitable" organizations that ended up funding suicide bombers and terrorist training camps. So based on that history I think any major Muslim organization is going to have its finances scrutinized, and it's reasonable to do so. I don't think the Cordoba people have any problem with that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You know I'm strongly in favor of this project, but I have to agree with Kathryn. The fact is that many Muslim organizations in the U.S. have received and funneled money to and from terrorist organizations, Hamas, Fatah and worse.

What I don't get is that such a big fuss is being made over this, yet we do have so many groups that are known to be affiliated with extremist groups, and some that have made death threats against Americans. They are allowed here, yet a "YMMA" is being fought tooth and nail. Why don't we focus on the groups that we know pose a real threat and know where they are at? Instead of trying to run them out of the nation and saying we won't tolerate it, we cater to them and punish non-affiliated groups instead.

 

[Autodidact]

Good point, Shadow. I often observe that in American politics, especially right-wing politics, it's not about actually doing something so much as taking a symbolic stance about it.

 

[Wotan]

Is this the same procedure that Christians have to go through when they want to build a Church?

Just remember that Muslim Americans are not asking for your charity or your pity, they are an equal citizens and what apply to them should be applied to you and everybody, or it will be a discrimination, and a violation of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Not normally no. OTOH no Christan sect I am aware has ever sent out suicide bombers to attack innocent people. Persons claiming to be Muslims have. Nor does any Christian organization I aware of fund such activities. Some Muslim charities and mosques do. It would only be prudent to make inquires regarding funding.

I add that if the Westboro Baptist Church were the organization involved they would not have gotten this far. The good Reverend Phelps would have been told his organization was unwelcome under any circumstances. Residents of Manhattan Island would not tolerate his Christian group among them.

This isn't about religion. Its about security.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Not normally no. OTOH no Christan sect I am aware has ever sent out suicide bombers to attack innocent people.

The key word here being "suicide", seems that Christian terrorists don't have that kind of commitment.

• The Sons of Freedom in Canada
• The National Liberation Front of Tripura in India
• Russian National Unity in Russia
• The Lords Resistance Army in Uganda (RF Link)
  
• The Ku Klux Klan in America
• The Army of God in America
• The Lambs of Christ in America
• Eric Robert Rudolph in America
• Repent Amarillo in America
• The Montana Freemen in America
• The Christian Front in America
• Various Christian Patriot and Christian Identity groups in America
• The American Coalition of Life Activists
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Clayton Waagner in America[/FONT]
• James Kopp in Canada
• Peter James Knight in Australia
• Shelley Shannon in America
• Scott Roeder in America
• Michael F. Griffin in America
• Rev. Paul Jennings Hill in America
• Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons and Kaye Wiggins in America
• Martin Uphoff in America
• Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe in America
• David McMenemy in America
• Paul Ross Evans in America
• Bruce Edwards Ivins in America
• Jim D. Adkisson in America
• James Wenneker von Brunn in America
• Oklahoma Constitutional Militia
• North American Militia
• The Idaho Mountain Militia Boys
• The Hutaree Militia

 

[logician]

Not normally no. OTOH no Christan sect I am aware has ever sent out suicide bombers to attack innocent people.

Suicide bombing is just a crude military tactic. One could do just as much damage with an AK47 or AR15 depending on the circrumstances. Much more damage could be done by attacking a country with an overpowering miliatry for no good reason.

 

[beenie]

You know I'm strongly in favor of this project, but I have to agree with Kathryn. The fact is that many Muslim organizations in the U.S. have received and funneled money to and from terrorist organizations, Hamas, Fatah and worse. This included purely "charitable" organizations that ended up funding suicide bombers and terrorist training camps. So based on that history I think any major Muslim organization is going to have its finances scrutinized, and it's reasonable to do so. I don't think the Cordoba people have any problem with that.

unfortunately, i think this is true. unfair, but true. look. if my child was caught stealing money from my wallet once, i'd probably give them a quick lecture and move on. if they repeatedly stole from my wallet, i'd take a closer look at all of their activities because they have breached my trust. i'd probably scrutinize all my kids because that one may have told all of them that taking money from my wallet is ok. small example, but the bottom line is...if one has nothing to hide, then a little scrutiny, while UNFAIR, wouldn't be so horrible. in life, unfortunately, the mass sometimes has to take the brunt of the trouble for the few bad apples in the bunch. it's just the way the world works. hopefully that will change over time...well, once we can rid ourselves of those pesky radicals.

again, i'm not saying it's the RIGHT thing to do (i oppose it, actually), BUT it's an UNDERSTANDABLE thing to WANT to do. does that make sense?

Good point, Shadow. I often observe that in American politics, especially right-wing politics, it's not about actually doing something so much as taking a symbolic stance about it.

agreed. take a stance on it and hyper-twist it to suit their purposes of spreading intolerance and fear.

 

[Engyo]

Strippers weigh in on ‘Ground Zero’ mosque

By [email protected] (Chris Preovolos)


We’ve heard from the president. We’ve heard from the mayor. We’ve heard from countless cable news commentators.

But in the national debate over the possibility of an Islamic center near Ground Zero, the voices of one minority have been lost in the noise.​

What about the strippers?
It turns out, they are pretty much okay with it.
FROM THE WSJ:

[A] stripper who volunteered in the Ground Zero recovery, sat on a barstool in a tiny, shiny red dress and defended Park51. “They’re not building a mosque in the World Trade Center,” she pointed out. “It’s all good. You have your synagogues and your churches. And you have a mosque.” (Read more)
​

[Another] worried that calls to prayer from the mosque at Park51 might wake up neighbors. But when she was told that the organizers aren’t planning loudspeakers, she said she didn’t have a problem with the project.
​

New York Dolls, a strip club on Murray St., is just three blocks north of the WTC site and around the corner from the proposed mosque, a project called Park51. Even closer, the Pussycat Lounge is something of an institution, having survived decades of Wall Street boom and bust.
The clubs are a reminder of the diversity of urban life, lower Manhattan being no exception.
Though deemed “hallowed ground” by many Americans, the area around the former site of the World Trade Center towers appears — in more ways than not — just like the rest of Manhattan.
You’ve got street vendors, a Brooks Brothers and pizza by-the-slice. If it weren’t for the hordes of tourists, you’d be hard pressed to tell any difference.
Emotionally though, the difference is palpable. Even the casual observer is keenly aware of what happened here.
For some, the controversy over the possibility of an Islamic center blocks away from Ground Zero is much ado about nothing. For many others (including a majority of New Yorkers), it is an alarming and in-your-face affront to the memory of an extraordinary tragedy.
For the strippers though, it’s not that big of a deal.

Strippers weigh in on ‘Ground Zero’ mosque | Hot Topics | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

 

[Smoke]

Not normally no. OTOH no Christan sect I am aware has ever sent out suicide bombers to attack innocent people.

I can't think of one either. Christians generally prefer to kill their victims without harming themselves. That's how we know they have the love of Jesus in their hearts, and why we trust them so much more than Muslims.

 

[Kathryn]

So when a large new church or religious based facility is being built, donations are scrutinized?
Do you have an example of this?

Lets say for example, a large facility is built to house the Focus on the Family organization. After passing all zoning laws in Colorado Springs, were their funds, as a non-profit organization, scrutinized?

I don't know - why don't you do some research on this?

I do know that ALL donations to non profits and ministries are subject to review by the IRS - and are often reviewed by the IRS. This mosque/complex should be no different.

I also know that any large wires or donations from foreign countries are scrutinized not only by the IRS, but by the banks they go through. Since Imam Rauf's Cordoba Initiative has offices in Malaysia - a country that is currently being ripped apart by Islamic extremists and terror attacks - donations coming through that office SHOULD be scrutinized, just as money coming from any other "hot spot" in the world to the US is scrutinized.

So - If Focus on the Family suddenly starts receiving millions of dollars in donations via banks in Malaysia - Yes, you can be certain that those donations will be reviewed by both the government and the banking system.