Mosque Near Ground Zero Clears Key Hurdle

[Brother Bob]

I'd like to offer a summarized clarification:
My previous posting was not meant to be predujicial toward the Muslim people, the Japanese or anyone else. I wanted to bring out the thought that much of the sentiment of those opposed to the building of the Mosque have to do with the high emotional presence that still exists for many New Yorkers especially. If the two planes that struck the twin towers had been hijacked by a extremist group of Vatican guards, those same New Yorkers probably wouldn't want a Catholic Church built there.
In asking that the Mosque group disclose where the money originates from: Should they really have to do so? No, but wouldn't it help to elieviate the picture of it coming from those who rejoiced in that terrible event? The same goes for picing another site. They don't have to, but what a terrific step that would be on their part. My apologies to any devout Muslims I may have offended. That was never my intent.

 

[Kathryn]

So, the people who harass and prejudge good Muslims are innocent?

Err, no.

I've never said or implied that. Prejudice is repellant to me.

 

[Kathryn]

it couldn't be the same. you are not Muslim, so there is no way you could feel the fear i did AS a Muslim. i do see how you had terror as well, but it's not the same, that's all.

I didn't say I felt "like a Muslim." I said I felt "like you did" when it came to the initial feeling of shock about the "accident" with the first plane, and then the dismayed shock of the realization that we were now at war with some group of radicals. Wouldn't you say in that context we felt very similar?

i never said people can't question radicalism, and i would never blame them for doing so. but to lump all Muslims under one category based on the actions of a few...that's wrong on all counts. Muslims won't tolerate being lumped with these people any more than any other race/creed being lumped together; why should we?

Well, I'm not lumping all Muslims under one category, nor condoning that attitude. I have been very clear and consistent about my opinion, which is that the radicals within Islam make it difficult for the moderate Muslims.

would call this an exaggeration, Kathryn. i understand your sentiment, but i don't see radical Muslims running rampant in my city, state...hell, even my section of the country! yes, they surely exist, and if i could blast them all to Mars i would.

It is not an exxageration. Radical Islam is a veritable cancer in the world today. Here is a partial list of the countries/states that have experienced terrorist attacks by radical Muslims since 9/11:

India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal and the Maldives and Argentina and Mali and Angola and the Ukraine and Uganda and Iraq​

STOP THE MADNESS!​

 

[Reverend Rick]

Hey let's lighten up a little

Liberal Dilemma Over Ground Zero Mosque Gay Bar

 

[Smoke]

Hey let's lighten up a little

Liberal Dilemma Over Ground Zero Mosque Gay Bar

I think that's a great idea, except for the part about offering 72 virgin cocktails. In my experience, Muslims don't drink kind of the way Baptists don't drink.

 

[beenie]

crap, I'm on my phone and can't quote properly. I apologize that I misunderstood you when you felt the same reaction as you watched the events of 9/11 unfold. I certainly didn't mean to belittle you or you emotions; I hope you know that, Kathryn.

when I was addressing the lumping Muslims all together, that was directed in a general sense, not at you since you have made it abundantly clear that you, like I, recognize the huge difference between moderate Muslims and radical ones.

that list makes my blood boil; I wish the madness would stop as much as you do. those acts of violence have no place on earth, and I wish and hope they pay a heavy price for terrorizing others. my hatred is directed at THEM. my sorrow too.

I didn't say I felt "like a Muslim." I said I felt "like you did" when it came to the initial feeling of shock about the "accident" with the first plane, and then the dismayed shock of the realization that we were now at war with some group of radicals. Wouldn't you say in that context we felt very similar?



Well, I'm not lumping all Muslims under one category, nor condoning that attitude. I have been very clear and consistent about my opinion, which is that the radicals within Islam make it difficult for the moderate Muslims.



It is not an exxageration. Radical Islam is a veritable cancer in the world today. Here is a partial list of the countries/states that have experienced terrorist attacks by radical Muslims since 9/11:

India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal and the Maldives and Argentina and Mali and Angola and the Ukraine and Uganda and Iraq​

STOP THE MADNESS!​

 

[Kathryn]

SSAINHU, you are a gem.

 

[beenie]

the proposed center is not at Ground Zero.

Muslims have not conquered America. that video is ridiculous propaganda and you know it.

 

[Cypress]

update

 

[Kathryn]

THE MOSQUE IS NOT AT GROUND ZERO.

RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IS INTEGRAL TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

IF YOU WANT RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, YOU MUST ALSO ALLOW RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

We have other laws that we can apply IF NECESSARY to this particular project, imam, and his financial supporters - IF they break the laws of the land. If they don't, we have no right to interfere with their practice of their faith.

 

[Magic Man]

update

"I think they would like to stay where they are, and I certainly respect that and I certainly respect them," Paterson said after the group spoke with one of his staff members. "Having said that, how much more foresighted would it have been if the Imam who is the developer of the project had been willing to hear what we are actually talking about?"

"I wanted to talk to them (the developers) about what was the possibility of just having a conversation about would there be a way to provide a center for people of the Muslim faith in lower Manhattan, and it not interfere with what is still a memorial to what happened on September 11," Paterson said.


"I hope that the type of cultural understanding that they are trying to promote when they build this center could be practiced right now," he added.

 

[Darkness]

I'd like to offer a summarized clarification:
My previous posting was not meant to be predujicial toward the Muslim people, the Japanese or anyone else. I wanted to bring out the thought that much of the sentiment of those opposed to the building of the Mosque have to do with the high emotional presence that still exists for many New Yorkers especially. If the two planes that struck the twin towers had been hijacked by a extremist group of Vatican guards, those same New Yorkers probably wouldn't want a Catholic Church built there.

So, let's douse the Constitution in gasoline and light it on fire. Honestly, if we are going to prevent a probably moderate Muslim cleric from opening a Mosque two blocks from Ground Zero, we should censor every single Nazi and White Supremacist. On second note, I wouldn't be so ****** off if the very same Conservative people who are protesting the building of the Mosque weren't hypocritical and call us (liberals/socialists) Fascists and Nazis when we try to limit gun-ownership and interpret the Second Amendment differently, or you know, give children health care. :sarcastic

 

[Sunstone]

This whole anti-community center thing was ginned up by Pamela Geller, who runs the blog Atlas Shrugged. She's the **** who started it, and she's so hateful of Muslims that Paypal now refuses to do any business with her. You've got to be a pretty big bigot for an American corporation to refuse to take your money.

 

[LittlePinky82]

It's not a mosque. There's a prayer room but it's not a mosque from what I understand. It's going to be like a YMCA which is certainly not a church. And regardless of people's feelings on this or that are with this they have every right to the first amendment as anyone else does to freedom of religion and to peacefully assemble. Other people just need to grow up. If you're going to claim "land of the free and home of the brave" you might wanna show it.

 

[Kathryn]

Yep, people have a right to be tacky, insensitive, and inflammatory. Get used to it.

This whole anti-community center thing was ginned up by Pamela Geller, who runs the blog Atlas Shrugged. She's the **** who started it, and she's so hateful of Muslims that Paypal now refuses to do any business with her. You've got to be a pretty big bigot for an American corporation to refuse to take your money.

Misinformation.

To clarify:
SIOA Applauds PayPal's Decision to Reinstate Pro-Freedom Sites -- NEW YORK, June 14 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --

NEW YORK, June 14 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — The human rights group Stop Islamization of America (SIOA) today applauded a decision by PayPal, the leading online payment service, to reinstate the accounts of AtlasShrugs.com, Freedom Defense Initiative (FDI), and SIOA itself, after briefly suspending them over spurious and politically motivated charges of “hate.”Atlas Shrugs founder and publisher Pamela Geller, who is also the Executive Director of SIOA, received this e-mail last Friday from PayPal’s Acceptable Use Policy Department: “[A]fter a recent review of your account, it has been determined that you are currently in violation of PayPal’s Acceptable Use Policy. Under the Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or receive payments for items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance or the financial exploitation of a crime.”

PayPal sent similar notices to SIOA and to the Freedom Defense Initiative (FDI), another group Geller helped establish.

Geller explained: “The decision that Atlas Shrugs, SIOA, and FDI constitute ‘hate sites’ was an example of the ongoing attempt by Leftists and Islamic supremacist groups like the Hamas-linked hate group the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) to rule their political opposition outside the bounds of acceptable and reasonable political discourse.”

She added: “The goal behind accusations of ‘hatred’ and ‘bigotry’ leveled against groups like SIOA and FDI, which are dedicated to defending human rights and American Constitutional values, is to silence them so that Islamic supremacists can have free rein to restrict the rights of Americans without opposition. PayPal’s capitulation to this smear campaign was an ominous sign.”

But on Monday, a PayPal representative contacted Geller to inform her that Atlas Shrugs, SIOA and FDI had been mistakenly designated “hate sites,” and that the designations would be removed. The reversal follows an avalanche of critical emails PayPal received from followers of the enormously popular Atlas Shrugs blog.

Now, I don't know much about Pamela Geller or her blog, and if I did, I might detest her. But let's keep our facts straight, shall we?

By the way, saying that Pamela Gellar "started" the "whole thing" about the mosque near Ground Zero is about like saying that Patrick Henry started the Revolutionary War just because he made a speech.

 

[Magic Man]

Yep, people have a right to be tacky, insensitive, and inflammatory. Get used to it.

That's true, and good for you for constantly exercising that right. I'm just glad the people behind this center aren't doing any of those things.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Yep, people have a right to be tacky, insensitive, and inflammatory. Get used to it.

Would you say that they (the Community Center planners) are being tacky, insensitive and inflammatory simply because they wish to build a Muslim Community Center in Manhattan within walking distance of WTC attacks?

Should they, because they practice Islam, have reconsidered the location?

 

[Smoke]

Should they, because they practice Islam, have reconsidered the location?

Several of the protesters have suggested that the appropriate location is the Middle East. It's not about location, it's about xenophobia.

 

[Neo-Logic]

It's pretty clear cut as far as I can see.

This whole issue has shined light on the bigger and pinker elephant in the room -- that much of the conservatives and some in America have a disdain, dislike, fear, and mistrust of Islam the religion. The entire discussion over the single mosque is a farce and symbolizes only the general fear of Islam if the multiple protests happening across the nation at the construction of new mosques that are hundreds and thousands of miles away from ground zero are of any indication (or the recent story about a drunk guy in NY who slashed a Muslim cab-driver's throat after he found out that the driver was Muslim).

Politicians start the fire.
The media exacerbate the flames.
The ******** scared simpletons, the fearful, and the irrational spreads the fire.

All of this so the politicians can get a chance to extinguish the fire they started and at some point, be the heroes and heroines of their own creations.

 

[Kathryn]

Would you say that they (the Community Center planners) are being tacky, insensitive and inflammatory simply because they wish to build a Muslim Community Center in Manhattan within walking distance of WTC attacks?

Should they, because they practice Islam, have reconsidered the location?

Coulda, woulda, shoulda - I don't know and I really don't care. They apparently bought the building for a STEAL, so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming that it was price rather than location that was their deciding factor on the building.

I'm all for freedom of religion, and freedom of speech. I don't have any problem with Muslims building ANYTHING that passes the local zoning committees and building standards. Have at it.

My point is that they shouldn't be surprised at the brouhaha, considering that the building is 600 feet from Ground Zero, and was covered with the ashes of 3000 people on that terrible day in US history. Personally, if I was a founder of this mosque/community center, I would not have named the initiative the Cordoba House, and I would have considered that location only as a last option (I am realistic enough to understand that suitable locations in that general area are hard to come by though) - out of sensitivity to issue of the terrorist attacks which scarred the psyche of so many Americans.

That being said, of course the media (who is selling RATINGS by the way - and inflammatory speech and tactics sell commercial spots) is pushing on this as hard as they can. People and groups on both sides of the issue are being played - and falling for it hook, line, and sinker.