Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals over 2016 election interference

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm sure that the Bible belt will eventually fall to the madness. But I doubt it will in my lifetime.

It's been a cesspool of madness.

especially those of common sense.

"Common sense" has never been adequately defined, nor agreed upon as to what exactly is "common sense."

 

[Phantasman]

So, why do you think that the Republicans are so unconcerned about Putin's involvement?
We're fighting them in Syria and they're allies with Iran. They used to be a rival Superpower, and Putin seems to want that status back.
I think he'd go to war to get it. He certainly doesn't have the USA's best interests in mind.
But he wanted Trump and got it. Frankly, I can't see how any USA supporters would fail to be disturbed by that and want answers.
Tom

It isn't the Republicans. King, Graham and many other Republicans are calling for sanctions against Russia from Muellers report. Trump should enact such sanctions. I'm waiting to see.

The USSR (Soviet Union) was the rival super power, Today, Russia isn't a super power like it was during the cold war.

 

[columbus]

Rigged?

(sigh)

Rigged.
A vote in Wyoming is worth close to 4 votes in California.

National Popular Vote
Tom

 

[columbus]

The USSR (Soviet Union) was the rival super power, Today, Russia isn't a super power like it was during the cold war.

Exactly. That's what I said.

Putin wants to change that, and knock the USA off the top of the hill.
Tom

 

[Stanyon]

Rigged.
A vote in Wyoming is worth close to 4 votes in California.

National Popular Vote
Tom

The same rules that has been used to elect presidents since 1787 applied in 2016. Of the presidents elected overall 19 were Republicans, 16 Democrats, 4 Democratic- Republicans, 4 Whigs,1 Federalist and George Washington had no affiliation.

Rigged for who exactly?

 

[Revoltingest]

The same rules that has been used to elect presidents since 1787 applied in 2016. Of the presidents elected overall 19 were Republicans, 16 Democrats, 4 Democratic- Republicans, 4 Whigs,1 Federalist and George Washington had no affiliation.

Rigged for who exactly?

It's only "rigged" when my candidate loses.
Btw, I notice that the UN is also rigged, because it's
not one vote per person in each member country.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The same rules that has been used to elect presidents since 1787 applied in 2016. Of the presidents elected overall 19 were Republicans, 16 Democrats, 4 Democratic- Republicans, 4 Whigs,1 Federalist and George Washington had no affiliation.

Some of the rules have changed since then, such as the Presidential candidate choosing their own VP and who is allowed to vote.

 

[metis]

I know, right.

What I am wondering is... Ok, Mueller has issued these indictment of Russian foreign nationals. Got it. Doesn't the Justice Department now have to petition the Russian government to extradite them? I'd say there is a pretty fat chance of the Russians agreeing to such a request.

You're undoubtedly correct, but if any of them travel to another country then we could maybe see them extradited here. My guess is that we won't, however.

 

[columbus]

You're undoubtedly correct, but if any of them travel to another country then we could maybe see them extradited here. My guess is that we won't, however.

I don't see them as especially important, as individuals.
I am much more concerned about the effects, here in the USA. And answers to questions like "Why were Putin and the Russians so interested in helping Trump get into office? What did they expect to gain, and are they getting it?".
Tom

 

[metis]

I don't see them as especially important, as individuals.
I am much more concerned about the effects, here in the USA. And answers to questions like "Why were Putin and the Russians so interested in helping Trump get into office? What did they expect to gain, and are they getting it?".
Tom

Yes, and probably the most significant signal Mueller has sent out with these indictments is that he considers these to be criminal charges, which has major implications with any Americans that might have intentionally collaborated with them, and my guess is that the Trump camp is really being shook up by where Mueller is taking this and its implications.

And with another Trump adviser "flipping" this weekend, namely the top man organizing the campaign over the months immediately preceding the election, the vultures are circling, although we obviously don't know yet which in the Trump camp is in trouble other than those who already have agreed to a plea deal.

 

[YmirGF]

You're undoubtedly correct, but if any of them travel to another country then we could maybe see them extradited here. My guess is that we won't, however.

The only thing that bothers me a bit is that no Russian flew over from Russia, to my knowledge, to give testimony to the Meuller Investigation and, of course, just because someone is indicted, does not mean a conviction is guaranteed. (It does mean that they have enough evidence to convince a Grand Jury. To indict you don’t need a unanimous decision from all the jurors, you just need a quorum.)

And with another Trump adviser "flipping" this weekend, namely the top man organizing the campaign over the months immediately preceding the election, the vultures are circling, although we obviously don't know yet which in the Trump camp is in trouble other than those who already have agreed to a plea deal.

Although I agree that is a serious development I am more concerned that this information is even leaking out into the public. It's not like Meuller is giving play by play press conferences.

 

[metis]

The only thing that bothers me a bit is that no Russian flew over from Russia, to my knowledge, to give testimony to the Meuller Investigation and, of course, just because someone is indicted, does not mean a conviction is guaranteed. (It does mean that they have enough evidence to convince a Grand Jury.

Of course not, but what would have been the chances of getting them here anyway? Mueller has an excellent reputation across the board, so even though I may not assume guilt, nevertheless I have at least some confidence that he did what he did for good reason/

Although I agree that is a serious development I am more concerned that this information is even leaking out into the public.

But was it a leak and, if so, who did it? I don't know.

But such information, if I'm Mueller, I would want out there so the others get "the word", if you know what I mean. And a leak like this really shouldn't cause harm because said information would be coming out later anyway.

 

[YmirGF]

Of course not, but what would have been the chances of getting them here anyway? Mueller has an excellent reputation across the board, so even though I may not assume guilt, nevertheless I have at least some confidence that he did what he did for good reason

Of course.

But was it a leak and, if so, who did it? I don't know.

Being unnamed we will never know or even know if it is legitimate.

But such information, if I'm Mueller, I would want out there so the others get "the word", if you know what I mean. And a leak like this really shouldn't cause harm because said information would be coming out later anyway.

I far prefer the surprise element to ensure quality Kodak moments.

 

[columbus]

Although I agree that is a serious development I am more concerned that this information is even leaking out into the public. It's not like Meuller is giving play by play press conferences.

Strategic leaks can be very useful. If only by putting their USA cohorts on notice that the investigation is turning up information, without saying what or how.
That has a way of "shaking the tree", as it were.
Tom

 

[columbus]

Rigged for who exactly?

Wealthy white elites. Like the people who made the rules.
But I don't want to further derail this thread, there are plenty of threads about the EC. I just get annoyed when people say demonstrably false things like "The people have spoken and they elected Trump."
That's really what I was commenting on.
Tom

 

[Stanyon]

Wealthy white elites.

Hillary is a wealthy white elite

 

[columbus]

Hillary is a wealthy white elite

There are those of us who don't see everything through a partisan lens. And are looking at a bigger picture than the outcome of one "election" .

One of the more disturbing recent trends in the USA is the increasing tendency of people, especially conservative people, to put Party interests above their country.
Tom

 

[pearl]

"Why were Putin and the Russians so interested in helping Trump get into office? What did they expect to gain, and are they getting it?".

I don't think it reflects Putin's admiration for Trump, like Trump Putin's admiration is for himself, but his hatred and vendetta towards Clinton. He would not have minded much if Sanders had won. Since Trump refuses to enforce those sanctions that Congress passed as law, I think the answer is yes.

 

[pearl]

Hillary is a wealthy white elite

Because she is educated?

 

[columbus]

Because she is educated?

No, she really is part of the wealthy white elites.
Things have changed a lot since the EC was created.
Tom