Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals over 2016 election interference

[tytlyf]

I'm telling you everyone was so certain she would win that they refused to see the possibility of her losing, and like legions of Republicans they too doubted Trump and it cost them. From the Republican primaries on, doubting Trump is what pushed him through, even when a number on the Left and Right began to realize the fault in doubting him and sounded the alarm to deaf ears that if people continued to doubt him he would keep going further and further.

Yeah. And a chunk of Liberals go on about the "dangers of GMOs," believe there are advantages to going all "organic," believe Palin said she can see Russia from her home, and have circulated misquotes and quotes taken out of context.

No, Americans were pretty certain we didn't have a segment of our population that could even come close to electing him. But they sure fooled us, that's not a badge of honor for those people.

Just shows how far down the toilet America has gone.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, Americans were pretty certain we didn't have a segment of our population that could even come close to electing him.

Plenty of Americans were certain we had enough population for Trump to win.

 

[Falvlun]

They also arranged the "Trump is not my President" movement in front of Trump Tower. Maybe you are not understanding the words "sowing discord". It wasn't just Trump, but 3 other presidential candidates as well.

It wasn't in favor of anyone. Just discord, ala George Soros style.

Could you please quote the “Trump is not my President” section and page number so I know exactly what you are citing?

As for the 3 other candidates: they were against Cruz and Rubio and for Sanders because doing so helped Trump.

Their primary efforts, as clearly noted, were directed at electing Trump and denigrating Clinton. Other minor side projects do not negate this fact.

To say it was some general, undirected discord ignores everything all of our intelligence agencies, and the special counsel investigating this, have discovered.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is evidence Russia tried to meddle with the election. No evidence so far linking Trump to it.

So far. That doesn't mean it isn't out there somewhere. It doesn't mean it is. Other than those who have been indicted and taken plea bargains, the only other thing we know is Mueller has evidence to support continuing his investigation, and it may-or-may-not lead to criminal charges for Trump. We don't know. Personally, I think because Trump is such a political outsider and considering some of those he kept around him, along with Trump's self-centerdness and arrogance and the Trump Tower meeting that excluded Trump, it may be possible the whole thing happened without Trump knowing about it. But Trump himself also has a shady past, just like Mannafort and Stone. So it may be possible he is guilty of something, or in the spirit of Stone did nothing technically illegal but rather highly unethical.

 

[Falvlun]

So is Bernie in on the Russian collusion with Trump as well then?

Do you not understand how supporting Bernie denigrates Clinton and helps Trump get elected?

And why are you ignoring the other things I posted that specifically stated that promoting Trump and denigrating Clinton were their primary purpose?

If them supporting Trump was apart of the collusion then them supporting Bernie means the same.

I didn’t say anything about collusion in my post except “As for clearing Trump or his campaign of collusion, that hasn’t happened yet. Nor have they been charged. The investigation is not yet closed and that question hasn’t beenaddressed yet, at least not publicly.”

These current indictments are not about collusion. They are about establishing the Russian involvement and support for Trump— which apparently people still have a hard time believing, despite everything that has been demonstrated.

 

[Enoch07]

So far. That doesn't mean it isn't out there somewhere. It doesn't mean it is. Other than those who have been indicted and taken plea bargains, the only other thing we know is Mueller has evidence to support continuing his investigation, and it may-or-may-not lead to criminal charges for Trump. We don't know. Personally, I think because Trump is such a political outsider and considering some of those he kept around him, along with Trump's self-centerdness and arrogance and the Trump Tower meeting that excluded Trump, it may be possible the whole thing happened without Trump knowing about it. But Trump himself also has a shady past, just like Mannafort and Stone. So it may be possible he is guilty of something, or in the spirit of Stone did nothing technically illegal but rather highly unethical.

We shall wait and see.

 

[Falvlun]

If there was evidence Trump would be in jail already, or at the very least impeached.

Impeachment is a political process. If Congress doesn’t want to impeach— and it’s unlikely Republicans will want to — then there’s nothing forcing them to do so. Lack of impeachment, therefore, is not evidence of innocence.

As for Trump already being in jail, why do you think so? The investigation is still on-going. Why do you think someone should be in jail prior to the investigation being completed? That seems pretty backwards.

 

[Enoch07]

Do you not understand how supporting Bernie denigrates Clinton and helps Trump get elected?

Not really, it would have been harder to beat Bernie in the election than Clinton.

And why are you ignoring the other things I posted that specifically stated that promoting Trump and denigrating Clinton were their primary purpose?

Not ignoring it, just pointing out a part you ignored even though you posted it.

These current indictments are not about collusion. They are about establishing the Russian involvement and support for Trump— which apparently people still have a hard time believing, despite everything that has been demonstrated.

The indictments are part of the Mueller investigation. Which is investigating possible collusion.

Everyone already knows Russia and other countries do these things to influence elections, so this is not a big revelation.

 

[Enoch07]

Impeachment is a political process. If Congress doesn’t want to impeach— and it’s unlikely Republicans will want to — then there’s nothing forcing them to do so. Lack of impeachment, therefore, is not evidence of innocence.

Absence of evidence is the reason. If you have not noticed, many Republicans in Congress don't like Trump. So any solid evidence would probably be enough to impeach.

 

[Falvlun]

Not really, it would have been harder to beat Bernie in the election than Clinton.

Bernie’s presence sowed discord among the Democrats, and is still causing animosity to this day. This is not particularly rocket science.

Not ignoring it, just pointing out a part you ignored even though you posted it.

You have yet to address the fact that promoting Trump and denigrating Clinton were their primary goal and focus. Why is that?

And, no, I didn’t ignore it. I understood the implication— that their attacks on Rubio and Cruz, and support of Bernie were a part of their bigger plans to support Trump.

The indictments are part of the Mueller investigation. Which is investigating possible collusion.

The special counsel is for investigating Russia’s actions and possible collusion. I’m not sure why you are conflating the two. Meuller is establishing the Russian campaign to influence the election to favor Trump. It has not yet presented anything about collusion.

Everyone already knows Russia and other countries do these things to influence elections, so this is not a big revelation.

There are people in this very thread who are denying that Russia influenced our election by promoting Trump and denigrating Clinton. The truth is important.

It’s also important so that we can punish Russia and to help prevent future attacks— both things which the Trump administration is so far refusing to do.

You think we should just sit back and let foreign adversaries play with- literally- the most crucial aspect of our democracy? Without repercussions? Without informing the populace of their specific tactics? Without trying to prevent future attacks?

You don’t think we should wonder why a foreign adversary wanted a particular person to become our President?

I find it all very interesting. Sorry it’s not dramatic enough for you.

 

[Enoch07]

Bernie’s presence sowed discord among the Democrats, and is still causing animosity to this day. This is not particularly rocket science.

Just as Trump did the same to he GoP.

You have yet to address the fact that promoting Trump and denigrating Clinton were their primary goal and focus. Why is that?

The Russians didn't want to see Hillary in power. I honestly can't blame them for that. She is as crooked as it gets.

It has not yet presented anything about collusion.[/QUOTE

Exactly my point, yet many others here think that it will.

I find it all very interesting. Sorry it’s not dramatic enough for you.

It's old news. Governments have always been influencing each others elections. It is a well known fact.

 

[Falvlun]

Absence of evidence is the reason. If you have not noticed, many Republicans in Congress don't like Trump. So any solid evidence would probably be enough to impeach.

I think you are wrong. Republicans are working over time to cover for Trump.

But regardless, the same criticism for Your jail-time comment stands for this as well: why do you think Trump should have already been impeached prior to the investigation’s conclusion?

There is no reason to suppose that Trump should already be in jail or impeached. The fact that he is not in no way demonstrates his innocence.

 

[Falvlun]

The Russians didn't want to see Hillary in power. I honestly can't blame them for that. She is as crooked as it gets.

Now that’s a new one for me.

“Guys, the Russians were just helping us out. They were worried we’d end up with a crooked President. So they’re really our bros!”

 

[Phantasman]

Apparently you didn't. See below.



So is Bernie in on the Russian collusion with Trump as well then? If them supporting Trump was apart of the collusion then them supporting Bernie means the same.

I agree. "Discord" and "discourse" were the words used. Both was meant to incite division in the electoral process. Nothing "for" or "against" a particular candidate. It was a broad brush painting the picture, yet the ones with tunnel vision are only going to see the part(s) they want to see. One side going to blame Trump, yet the Obama administration was blind to it prior to Trump even anouncing his candidacy. When you see the full picture, the idea to divide, it worked with the ignorant. Seeing it in hind site, Americans should see that it was only as strong as those who rally around it to cause blame through the division it created.

IOW- all Americans should be pissed off, not just those blindly under the influence of it.

 

[Enoch07]

But regardless, the same criticism for Your jail-time comment stands for this as well: why do you think Trump should have already been impeached prior to the investigation’s conclusion?

Thats a misrepresentation of what I said.

I said: IF there was evidence he would be impeached already.

 

[Enoch07]

Now that’s a new one for me.

“Guys, the Russians were just helping us out. They were worried we’d end up with a crooked President. So they’re really our bros!”

Nope, but still I am glad Hillary is not in office.

 

[Phantasman]

Now that’s a new one for me.

“Guys, the Russians were just helping us out. They were worried we’d end up with a crooked President. So they’re really our bros!”

If you read Pravda daily (as I do) you would see that that statement isn't true at all.

The West wants Putin to play a different role in the world now

If all you are listening to is the US MSM, you only get one view.

 

[Phantasman]

Thats a misrepresentation of what I said.

I said: IF there was evidence he would be impeached already.

The word or act of "impeachment" is being used recklessly. Especially by a few radicals like Maxine Waters. To them, they see it as a solution to losing the election. If Trump were to be impeached by the mere call of these radicals, you would see a division in this country that would pale the Civil War.

There has to be something proving Trump to be unfit to hold the Presidential office. Not speculations coming from a group of poor sport losers. This happens on both sides, like the birth certificate of Obama. If he would have been impeached by the radical right, the same thing would have happened,

The Democrats have called for impeachment since day one after losing the election. The smartest thing the American people in those districts can do, is to get the people out of office that do nothing but complain, and put people in that will move to benefit their constituents.

Sitting around complaining gets nothing done.

 

[Stanyon]

They also arranged the "Trump is not my President" movement in front of Trump Tower. Maybe you are not understanding the words "sowing discord". It wasn't just Trump, but 3 other presidential candidates as well.
It wasn't in favor of anyone. Just discord, ala George Soros style.

And if we use logic, does that make any sense?
The discord I saw was created and repeated over and over in our own domestic media with (among numerous other things) Trump being compared to Hitler many times, claims that it would be open season on black people and Muslims would go to concentration camps if he got elected and that he would start a nuclear war. All fear mongering and race baiting lies that Trumps enemies used as political attacks to gain votes regardless of what it did to U.S. society. The church burned in Birmingham with "VOTE TRUMP" spray painted on it was denounced as a racist attack, reporters and panelists breathlessly raged about white supremacists and Trump encouraging racism for several days until it was found out that it was a black member of the church that was responsible.

 

[Phantasman]

And if we use logic, does that make any sense?
The discord I saw was created and repeated over and over in our own domestic media with (among numerous other things) Trump being compared to Hitler many times, claims that it would be open season on black people and Muslims would go to concentration camps if he got elected and that he would start a nuclear war. All fear mongering and race baiting lies that Trumps enemies used as political attacks to gain votes regardless of what it did to U.S. society. The church burned in Birmingham with "VOTE TRUMP" spray painted on it was denounced as a racist attack, reporters and panelists breathlessly raged about white supremacists and Trump encouraging racism for several days until it was found out that it was a black member of the church that was responsible.

Sorry. It's clear you don't like Trump. The domestic media are no longer sources for viable facts but more for opinion. The burning church proves nothing. A person hating Trump could paint the words, and people would associate the despicable action with Trump.

If Trump has encouraged white supremacy or racism, I'd like to see the facts supporting it. Not a Trump hating blog or a radical group of Democrats hurt by the election. Reporters and panelists are a dime a dozen. And many have had to apologize or been fired when they have been caught spewing lies.

Be a free thinker.