Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in the Eyes of Non-Muslims

[Don Penguinoini]

Eselam, what kind of peaceful prophet wages war?

 

[Gharib]

Eselam, what kind of peaceful prophet wages war?

and what kind of a fool would sit around while his people are killed. just because he is a peacefull prophet it doesn't mean it is forbiden for him to protect himself and his people. and he never started any wars, i think i have been over this many times. but obviously not with you.

 

[Gharib]

dear YmirGF

In the back of my mind, I can't help but think you are building a fraudulent attack on her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, in order to establish a connection with attacks made against the prophet. (IE. Your comments about Queen Elizabeth can be shown to be wrong, by checking the facts, and in theory the same can be said of those making comments about Muhammed.) That would be valid, to an extent, but for the simple reality that, in regards to Elizabeth, we know what the facts are. If we compare the veracity of that information with what we actually know about Muhammed, any connections vaporise into thin air.

ok, i am not attacking the her royal lady, to be honest i don't give a damn who she robbs, we didn't start talking about what a criminal she is so that i can deffend Muhammed (saws), the topic just came up. i really don't care about the queen, actually she is the last person i care about. were are simply just talking about how she has controll over the comonwealth. and i had my views just as the others had theirs. mine might be wrong but so what, thats what i think, just as you guys think of Muhammed (saws), you may have proven me wrong just as i have done to others about Muhammed (saws) so just as i do not accept the things that i am tolled about the queen you too do not accept the things about Muhammed (saws) tolled to you by the world. so it is fair to say no one would accept the truth even if it was infront of our eyes.

 

[Steinninn]

and what kind of a fool would sit around while his people are killed. just because he is a peacefull prophet it doesn't mean it is forbiden for him to protect himself and his people. and he never started any wars, i think i have been over this many times. but obviously not with you.

Well, could you maybe tell us again Hehe, I don't know the story.

Baha'u'llah never raised a hand, not even a word, against the people that put him in prison. Not even when they wanted to kill him. He simply looked into the assasins eyes and he lost his anger. But I'm not here to defend Baha'u'llah. I just wanted to know more about Mohammed. Maybe it would be easier if you could give us a link to a post you have given about this.

dear YmirGF
ok, i am not attacking the her royal lady, to be honest i don't give a damn who she robbs, we didn't start talking about what a criminal she is so that i can deffend Muhammed (saws), the topic just came up. i really don't care about the queen, actually she is the last person i care about. were are simply just talking about how she has controll over the comonwealth. and i had my views just as the others had theirs. mine might be wrong but so what, thats what i think, just as you guys think of Muhammed (saws), you may have proven me wrong just as i have done to others about Muhammed (saws) so just as i do not accept the things that i am tolled about the queen you too do not accept the things about Muhammed (saws) tolled to you by the world. so it is fair to say no one would accept the truth even if it was infront of our eyes.

I dissagree. If anyone can prove me wrong about my religion or any POV, I'll examen it and if I find it to be true, I'll exept it. So should any educated person. It doesn't matter if we are right or wrong, what matters is, that when we see the truth, that we exept it.

 

[Gharib]

Well, could you maybe tell us again Hehe, I don't know the story.

Baha'u'llah never raised a hand, not even a word, against the people that put him in prison. Not even when they wanted to kill him. He simply looked into the assasins eyes and he lost his anger. But I'm not here to defend Baha'u'llah. I just wanted to know more about Mohammed. Maybe it would be easier if you could give us a link to a post you have given about this.

ok heres something for you: Muhammed (saws) was alone once and he was praying, a man came from behind him to kill him, he thought he would wait for him to finnish the prayer and look at him while he would scream for help, after the prayer Muhammed (saws) turned to him, the man said (he had a sword in his hand) who is here to save you now, he replied and said my saviour is Allah but who do you have as a saviour if not Allah, the mans hand froze and he couldn't move, Muhammed (saws) took the sword from his hands without even a strugle, and said to him who will save you know, then he immediately accepted islam and became a muslim for the rest of his life, Muhammed (saws) never hurt anyone who wanted to hurt just him alone, but when it came to the rest of the people he could not say to them don't fight, they'll just come to kill us. would you stay still while the enemie come to kill you like an animal, if it was to be shot then maybe yeah because it would end in an instant, but being cut into paices. how bad is that.

I dissagree. If anyone can prove me wrong about my religion or any POV, I'll examen it and if I find it to be true, I'll exept it. So should any educated person. It doesn't matter if we are right or wrong, what matters is, that when we see the truth, that we exept it.

ok would you like to open a thread and have a debate you and me islam vs baha'i. one of is is bound to be wrong. but i don't wish to do that, i wouldn't want to make you an enemie of mine nor the other way around, so lets just follow our gut feeling just as we have up to now.

and i did pove people wrong about Muhammed (saws) but at the end of the day i was called either a lier, or ignorant, or narrow minded, or dissrespectfull etc... so i recon theres no reason to go over it with you, the outcome might be the same.

no offence though.

 

[Steinninn]

ok heres something for you: Muhammed (saws) was alone once and he was praying, a man came from behind him to kill him, he thought he would wait for him to finnish the prayer and look at him while he would scream for help, after the prayer Muhammed (saws) turned to him, the man said (he had a sword in his hand) who is here to save you now, he replied and said my saviour is Allah but who do you have as a saviour if not Allah, the mans hand froze and he couldn't move, Muhammed (saws) took the sword from his hands without even a strugle, and said to him who will save you know, then he immediately accepted islam and became a muslim for the rest of his life, Muhammed (saws) never hurt anyone who wanted to hurt just him alone, but when it came to the rest of the people he could not say to them don't fight, they'll just come to kill us. would you stay still while the enemie come to kill you like an animal, if it was to be shot then maybe yeah because it would end in an instant, but being cut into paices. how bad is that.

Yea, it's not what I've been tought, but I understand.

ok would you like to open a thread and have a debate you and me islam vs baha'i. one of is is bound to be wrong. but i don't wish to do that, i wouldn't want to make you an enemie of mine nor the other way around, so lets just follow our gut feeling just as we have up to now.

and i did pove people wrong about Muhammed (saws) but at the end of the day i was called either a lier, or ignorant, or narrow minded, or dissrespectfull etc... so i recon theres no reason to go over it with you, the outcome might be the same.

no offence though.

I agree with you, maybe more than you realize. But the thing is, you probably have convinced people, so you shouldn't stop trying.

It's not a metter of arguing until one of us is right, but rather for the individual to be open about other ideas.

 

[Gharib]

Yea, it's not what I've been tought, but I understand.

can you tell me what you have been taught and by who?

I agree with you, maybe more than you realize. But the thing is, you probably have convinced people, so you shouldn't stop trying.

It's not a metter of arguing until one of us is right, but rather for the individual to be open about other ideas.

you probably are right, but it doesn't matter no one wants to be caught in the wrog, everyone avoids such situations. and i can't blame them. thanks for your understanding

 

[England my lionheart]

ok heres something for you: Muhammed (saws) was alone once and he was praying, a man came from behind him to kill him, he thought he would wait for him to finnish the prayer and look at him while he would scream for help, after the prayer Muhammed (saws) turned to him, the man said (he had a sword in his hand) who is here to save you now, he replied and said my saviour is Allah but who do you have as a saviour if not Allah, the mans hand froze and he couldn't move, Muhammed (saws) took the sword from his hands without even a strugle, and said to him who will save you know, then he immediately accepted islam and became a muslim for the rest of his life, Muhammed (saws) never hurt anyone who wanted to hurt just him alone, but when it came to the rest of the people he could not say to them don't fight, they'll just come to kill us. would you stay still while the enemie come to kill you like an animal, if it was to be shot then maybe yeah because it would end in an instant, but being cut into paices. how bad is that.



ok would you like to open a thread and have a debate you and me islam vs baha'i. one of is is bound to be wrong. but i don't wish to do that, i wouldn't want to make you an enemie of mine nor the other way around, so lets just follow our gut feeling just as we have up to now.

and i did pove people wrong about Muhammed (saws) but at the end of the day i was called either a lier, or ignorant, or narrow minded, or dissrespectfull etc... so i recon theres no reason to go over it with you, the outcome might be the same.

no offence though.

Did you know that Byzantium rejected him as a Prophet because(this comes from a Greek text of the time) what Prophet comes on a chariot bearing sword and fire.

 

[Gharib]

Did you know that Byzantium rejected him as a Prophet because(this comes from a Greek text of the time) what Prophet comes on a chariot bearing sword and fire.

would you mind explaining this i don't undestand, has he gone to them whit a sword or domething, or what?

 

[Luminous]

It is quite clear that Muhammed was a military and political/social genious. whether he was a truthsayer, i do not know.

 

[Luminous]

Byzentioum. Bearing sword and fire, means starting big wars.( military attacks and gun attacks) and telling them to convert or be destroyed. which is what he told pretty much everybody. personally, i would much rather convert. We use the Allegory even now, it now means being bombastic, loud, and contradictory when discussing something with another. But the Allegory can also be used for other thing. Those Byzentian christians loved their Allegories.

 

[England my lionheart]

would you mind explaining this i don't undestand, has he gone to them whit a sword or domething, or what?

What i am saying is that when the Byzantines became aware of Muhammed they rejected him as a Prophet because in their eyes they do not see how a true Prophet would use warfare for a so called religion of love and understanding.

 

[England my lionheart]

What i am saying is that when the Byzantines became aware of Muhammed they rejected him as a Prophet because in their eyes they do not see how a true Prophet would use warfare for a so called religion of love and understanding.

The other way to put it is to compare Jesus and Muhammed,Jesus never used violence Muhammed did so its easy to see why they rejected him as a Prophet.

 

[Luminous]

The other way to put it is to compare Jesus and Muhammed,Jesus never used violence Muhammed did so its easy to see why they rejected him as a Prophet.

execpt Jesus was very violent; if he hadn't been it would have been illegal for the Roman Empire to crusify him. he was flipping over tables, screaming his heart out, calling people swine if they weren't naive enough to follow him. The greatest gift to Christianity was that he died, or else the majority of people today would have seen that he was a sect leader like any other( he would have subjected his deciples to mass suicide) Muhammed was not a sect leader, he was a political/social genious.

 

[Breathe]

execpt Jesus was very violent; if he hadn't been it would have been illegal for the Roman Empire to crusify him. he was flipping over tables, screaming his heart out, calling people swine if they weren't naive enough to follow him. The greatest gift to Christianity was that he died, or else the majority of people today would have seen that he was a sect leader like any other( he would have subjected his deciples to mass suicide) Muhammed was not a sect leader, he was a political/social genious.

Violent words + tantrums =/= killing people who oppose you.

 

[Luminous]

Violent words + tantrums =/= killing people who oppose you.[or mass/forced suicide]

Yeah, Pretty much.
that has been the history of sects and the Roman Empire knew that.

 

[England my lionheart]

execpt Jesus was very violent; if he hadn't been it would have been illegal for the Roman Empire to crusify him. he was flipping over tables, screaming his heart out, calling people swine if they weren't naive enough to follow him. The greatest gift to Christianity was that he died, or else the majority of people today would have seen that he was a sect leader like any other( he would have subjected his deciples to mass suicide) Muhammed was not a sect leader, he was a political/social genious.

Oh yes it must have been so terrible for the traders in the Temple having all those tables turned over and all that shouting must have left them devastated,how on earth did they survive it,must of been nothing less than a holocaust.

 

[Luminous]

Oh yes it must have been so terrible for the traders in the Temple having all those tables turned over and all that shouting must have left them devastated,how on earth did they survive it,must of been nothing less than a holocaust.

Oh yes, to the Roman police this would have been a clear sign of escalating violence and a crime against the Empire. As well as a crime the throne because Jesus kept sayin that he was "king".
The whole point is that you can't compare Muhamud and Jesus and say that Jesus was some perfect being while muhamud was human. it is clear that they were both human and that Jesus was a crazy sect leader and Muhamad was a Political genious.

 

[England my lionheart]

To get back on track,whether you are a follower of either Prophet or lets include John the Baptist in the equasion and compare all three.
It does'nt need a genius to see which was the most violent,whether any are true Prophets or not is another thing.

 

[Luminous]

#218

Reply:

To get back on track,whether you are a follower of either Prophet or lets include John the Baptist in the equasion and compare all three.
It does'nt need a genius to see which was the most violent,whether any are true Prophets or not is another thing.

being a true profet has nothing to do with not starting wars(themselves). it has (i think) a little bit more with being true.
actually, being violent has nothing to do with starting wars. Unless i have good evidence that he was violent, i'm not going to say that he was the most violent of the three.