Muhammad said Christians are exalted until Judgement Day, why?

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

But When did Allah say in Quran, if you don't know, go to mosque and ask a scholar?
I mean, Jews and Christians had this same approach and were mislead by their scholars.

Allah doesnt have to say it because for this reasons.

What is a scholar ? A scholar in Islam has dedicated his whole life to learn the Quran, the Hadith and Tafsir. In Islam we have a lot of preserved literature that goes back till the time of the prophet. So it’s logical to think we should listen those who have studied Islam in all aspects. That doesn’t mean the scholars don’t need to provide evidences for their claims.

So what happens if there is a disagreement between scholars?

If scholars are in a disagreement with each other even tho they provided with evidence then we go back to the Quran, and if it’s uncertain than we take the position that we don’t know for sure, only Allah knows best.

Quran 4-59

O believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. Should you disagree on anything, then refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you ˹truly˺ believe in Allah and the Last Day. This is the best and fairest resolution.

So in a nutshell there are things we don’t know for sure but that’s all right since those are minor issues. So if the verse says that the followers of Jesus…. and we don’t know who that are is not significant to our purpose. Which is to worship the creator and to follow the prophet’s example in order to obtain paradise with the grace and mercy of Allah. This is what matter to moslims

Quran says, it is written in a way, it is easy to understand. So, why would God reveal a verse in Quran, that you do not know who, it is referring to?

See above

of course....

what verses are you thinking?

The one that says prophet Muhammad is the seal of the prophethood. I assume this is something you will accept to?

Did Allah speak the verses of Quran in Arabic to Gabriel? If so, how Allah did that, if He does not have a mouth and a tongue to speak Arabic?

we don’t know how god communicates with the angels, this is something he did not reveal to us
Allah is the all powerful, all knowing and the creator.

Quran 4-175

All it takes, when He wills something ˹to be˺, is simply to say to it: “Be!” And it is!

 

[wellwisher]

I was not familiar with the Quran but after reading the quote and the different interpretations, what came to my mind was the promise of the Holy Spirit that Jesus made to his followers. Jesus would leave behind the Spirit of Truth who would be with them, forever. My guess is what is referred to as the followers of Jesus, would be those who had the living spirit and therefore would be like a prophet in their own right. They were spreading the word of Jesus and God, but not creating any new religion. The disbelievers believed in Jesus, but they did not have the Living Spirit, but were more by the book; law and external learning, instead of internal learning from inspiration.

The Prophet Muhammad appears to be placing the followers of Islam in the middle between these two Christian extremes. Muhammad, had the Spirit and was also inspired, in spirit, to start a new religion. However, his flock would follow this truth and not relay on a more personal spirit as was being practice by the followers of Jesus; the children of the promise. The sad part is, as history would show, that small minority of people who had the spirit, were often victims of the disbelievers. Whereas, the followers of Islam who stayed true to their external truth of Muhammad and be safer and clean by God.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I was not familiar with the Quran but after reading the quote and the different interpretations, what came to my mind was the promise of the Holy Spirit that Jesus made to his followers. Jesus would leave behind the Spirit of Truth who would be with them, forever. My guess is what is referred to as the followers of Jesus, would be those who had the living spirit and therefore would be like a prophet in their own right. They were spreading the word of Jesus and God, but not creating any new religion. The disbelievers believed in Jesus, but they did not have the Living Spirit, but were more by the book; law and external learning, instead of internal learning from inspiration.

The Prophet Muhammad appears to be placing the followers of Islam in the middle between these two Christian extremes. Muhammad, had the Spirit and was also inspired, in spirit, to start a new religion. However, his flock would follow this truth and not relay on a more personal spirit as was being practice by the followers of Jesus; the children of the promise. The sad part is, as history would show, that small minority of people who had the spirit, were often victims of the disbelievers. Whereas, the followers of Islam who stayed true to their external truth of Muhammad and be safer and clean by God.

Islam teaches that Allah has send prophets throughout time and places. They brought all the message of god which is that he is the only worthy of worship.
So we believe that the prophethood started with Adam and finished with prophet Muhammad. So it’s a continuation of prophets.
The subject of spirits and Holy Ghost. We don’t really have that concept that’s similar to Christianity. Tho we have a creation of Allah which is called jinn

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Allah doesnt have to say it because for this reasons.

If Allah did not say it, then it is a man-made way to go and ask a scholar. Allah’s guidance is complete. No need for man-made ways. If one reads the Quran, and thinks about its verses, all guidance is in the Book.

What is a scholar ? A scholar in Islam has dedicated his whole life to learn the Quran, the Hadith and Tafsir.

Yet, the scholars cannot agree on most things. There are many sects in Islam, each have their own scholars, with their own tafseer. How do you know who is saying the correct explanation? Oh I know. The one that is in the same sect as you are?

In Islam we have a lot of preserved literature that goes back till the time of the prophet. So it’s logical to think we should listen those who have studied Islam in all aspects. That doesn’t mean the scholars don’t need to provide evidences for their claims.

and in this particular case, they don't have an answer.

So what happens if there is a disagreement between scholars?

If scholars are in a disagreement with each other even tho they provided with evidence then we go back to the Quran, and if it’s uncertain than we take the position that we don’t know for sure, only Allah knows best.

Quran 4-59

O believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. Should you disagree on anything, then refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you ˹truly˺ believe in Allah and the Last Day. This is the best and fairest resolution.

yes, it says, in the things you don't agree, refer it to Allah. Can you please explain what that means? How do they refer it to Allah? Where is Allah to take the questions to and ask?

So in a nutshell there are things we don’t know for sure but that’s all right since those are minor issues.

How do you know it is a minor issue?
maybe they are critical issue. Did Allah say in the Quran what verse is a minor issue? Or it is the opinion of your scholars who says that?

So if the verse says that the followers of Jesus…. and we don’t know who that are is not significant to our purpose.

Are you saying, currently, there are followers of Jesus in the world, and you don't know who they are?

The one that says prophet Muhammad is the seal of the prophethood. I assume this is something you will accept to?

Yes, Prophet Muhammad is Seal of Prophets. What does it mean though?

we don’t know how god communicates with the angels, this is something he did not reveal to us
Allah is the all powerful, all knowing and the creator.

Quran 4-175

All it takes, when He wills something ˹to be˺, is simply to say to it: “Be!” And it is!

Why you don't know how God communicates with Angel?

Do you know how the Angel communicated with Muhammad? Does the Angel have a mouth and tongue to speak Arabic? If you say, yes, then how do you know?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

If Allah did not say it, then it is a man-made way to go and ask a scholar. Allah’s guidance is complete. No need for man-made ways. If one reads the Quran, and thinks about its verses, all guidance is in the Book.

Not really since we don’t take an absolute position, we have multiple possibilities and say Allah knows best.

Yet, the scholars cannot agree on most things. There are many sects in Islam, each have their own scholars, with their own tafseer. How do you know who is saying the correct explanation? Oh I know. The one that is in the same sect as you are?

Don’t change subject. We are talking about Islam that is practiced by the majority of Muslims.
And we don’t say that other scholars of Sunni are wrong, we just take the position Allah knows best

yes, it says, in the things you don't agree, refer it to Allah. Can you please explain what that means? How do they refer it to Allah? Where is Allah to take the questions to and ask?

we go back to the Quran and when we don’t agree against then we take the position of Allah knows best.

How do you know it is a minor issue?
maybe they are critical issue. Did Allah say in the Quran what verse is a minor issue? Or it is the opinion of your scholars who says that?

First: Well the prophet would mention if it is important
secondly me knowing , who exactly the followers of Jesus are or were is not an importance if you know what our purpose iis. That this life is a test for the hereafter. Me knowing who the followers are cannot help with that

Yes, Prophet Muhammad is Seal of Prophets. What does it mean though

That he is the last prophet god has send, the last prophet of the line of prophethood which began with Adam.

Why you don't know how God communicates with Angel?

Do you know how the Angel communicated with Muhammad? Does the Angel have a mouth and tongue to speak Arabic? If you say, yes, then how do you know?

i think you have reading issues, we don’t know because god didn’t tell us

Yes the angels spoke Arabic to the prophet.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Not really since we don’t take an absolute position, we have multiple possibilities and say Allah knows best.


Don’t change subject. We are talking about Islam that is practiced by the majority of Muslims.
And we don’t say that other scholars of Sunni are wrong, we just take the position Allah knows best

You have an assumption, and that is, the Islam of majority, or the Ummah as a whole is on the right Path.
Hadithes and verses of Quran rejects this assumption. Here are some:

"that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "What befell the children of Isra'il will befall my Ummah, step by step, such that if there was one who had intercourse with his mother in the open, then there would be someone from my Ummah who would do that. Indeed the children of Isra'il split into seventy-two sects, and my Ummah will split into seventy-three sects. All of them are in the Fire Except one sect." He said: "And which is it O Messenger of Allah?" He said: "What I am upon and my Companions."


"Turning unto Him (only); and be careful of your duty unto Him and establish worship, and be not of those who ascribe partners (unto Him), Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself" Quran 30:31-32


"Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense." Quran 25:30


All these verses and Hadithes clearly tells us, Muslims as a worldwide community, are on the Wrong Path, as their religion is divided in many sects, and Prophet Muhammad on the Judgement Day will testify that they have not been following Quran (25:30).

And here is another Hadith:


The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure, you would follow them." We said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?" He said, "Whom else?"

we go back to the Quran and when we don’t agree against then we take the position of Allah knows best.

First: Well the prophet would mention if it is important
secondly me knowing , who exactly the followers of Jesus are or were is not an importance if you know what our purpose iis. That this life is a test for the hereafter. Me knowing who the followers are cannot help with that

Prophet and the Quran talked about Day of Resurrection, thousands of times!
And this verse in OP, is saying, the followers of Jesus will be exalted till Day of Resurrection.
It is obvious that, in the view of the Quran, the Christians after Muhammad, are not meant by this verse, for they rejected Quran. Doesn't that tell you, the Day of Resurrection that this verse talks about have come to pass already?

Did not Muhammad reveal in the Quran, that, Day of Resurrection had come, by His own Manifestation?
hmmm, maybe Muslims do not read Quran very carefully.

That he is the last prophet god has send, the last prophet of the line of prophethood which began with Adam.

You see how you quickly change the Quran? Allah, in the Quran says, "Seal of Prophets". Allah did not say the Last Prophet. So, how do you know, when Quran says, "Seal of Prophets", He means, "Last of Prophets"? Don't you think, you need to be a little more careful with Quran?

i think you have reading issues, we don’t know because god didn’t tell us

Yes the angels spoke Arabic to the prophet.

I read it correctly. You already admit that, Allah does not have a mouth or tongue to speak Arabic.
Don't you see, therefore, the Quran is not really Words of Allah? "Revelations", does not mean "words of Allah". This idea is again invention of scholars.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

You have an assumption, and that is, the Islam of majority, or the Ummah as a whole is on the right Path.
Hadithes and verses of Quran rejects this assumption. Here are some:

Wow amazing reading skills you got there. Obviously we moslims are human so we make mistakes and some are leading off the right path. But I was referring to the fact that the majority of Muslims are Sunni. Meaning we have a way how we interact with our scriptures and the way how we live. So bringing on other sects to conversation is not gonna help you here. Bit nice try tho .

You see how you quickly change the Quran? Allah, in the Quran says, "Seal of Prophets". Allah did not say the Last Prophet. So, how do you know, when Quran says, "Seal of Prophets", He means, "Last of Prophets"? Don't you think, you need to be a little more careful with Quran?

Sahih al-Bukhari 3535

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "My similitude in comparison with the other prophets before me, is that of a man who has built a house nicely and beautifully, except for a place of one brick in a corner. The people go about it and wonder at its beauty, but say: 'Would that this brick be put in its place!' So I am that brick, and I am the last of the Prophets.

read it correctly. You already admit that, Allah does not have a mouth or tongue to speak Arabic.
Don't you see, therefore, the Quran is not really Words of Allah? "Revelations", does not mean "words of Allah". This idea is again invention of scholars

With respect, you are making no sense. I don’t know how you imagine god speaks to his creation. But for me that not important. We know he is our creator and has revealed the Quran. In what way he communicated this to angel Gabriel, god knows best

Quran 112-4

And there is none comparable to Him.

Describing allah when you haven’t seen is useless

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Wow amazing reading skills you got there. Obviously we moslims are human so we make mistakes and some are leading off the right path. But I was referring to the fact that the majority of Muslims are Sunni. Meaning we have a way how we interact with our scriptures and the way how we live. So bringing on other sects to conversation is not gonna help you here. Bit nice try tho .

I think you simply ignored all those verses and Hadithes, that tells us, Islam at some point, was to be distorted, the same way, Ummahs before it, went astray, but anyways...

Sahih al-Bukhari 3535

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "My similitude in comparison with the other prophets before me, is that of a man who has built a house nicely and beautifully, except for a place of one brick in a corner. The people go about it and wonder at its beauty, but say: 'Would that this brick be put in its place!' So I am that brick, and I am the last of the Prophets.

Ok, assuming this Hadith is true (which I believe) it is true, it does not mean "seal of Prophets" means the Last Prophet.

Muhamamd is the Seal of Prophets, and yes, He is also the Last Prophet, of a House that this Hadith is talking about.

Notice, it does not say, there will not be anymore Prophets after Muhammad "Forever".


Why there cannot be a Second House a new One, even a bigger One, be created by God? How do you know, creation of God is ended?

The answer is in this verse of the Quran:


"Were We then fatigued with the first creation? Yet are they in doubt with regard to a new creation." 50:15

Notice that, whatever Hadith, Muhammad said, its knowledge has come from the Quran. It is not like, Muhammad ever said something that is not in the Quran! If one thinks, Muhammad said something, which is not in the Quran, That would mean, Quran is not complete. Obviously that would be a false idea.


This verse, 50:15, is basically saying the same thing the Hadith that you quoted says, regarding creation of a House.

This House, which is a similitude of the human civilization, created by God, through successive Revelations of the Prophets, is referred as the first creation in this verse. Muhammad is like a last brick of this House.

The verse assures that, after this first creation, God creates a new Creation.

What does that mean? It means, the new creation will have its own chain of Prophets and Revelations. it will be beginning of a new human era.

Did not Muhammad reveal in the Quran, that, there will be a new Revelation after Quran, known as Day of Resurrection?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I think you simply ignored all those verses and Hadithes, that tells us, Islam at some point, was to be distorted, the same way, Ummahs before it, went astray, but anyways.

Don’t get me wrong we acknowledge as Muslims that there are those that move away from the path.
And no it’s not saying Islam, it’s talking about the people. We say Islam is perfect and those follow aren’t

my Ummah will split into seventy-three sects. All of them are in the Fire Except one sect

There will be one sect that won’t be in the fire. And don’t forget this is a prophesy that will happen, doesn’t mean it’s already happen

You have an assumption, and that is, the Islam of majority, or the Ummah as a whole is on the right Path.
Hadithes and verses of Quran rejects this assumption. Here are some

no I was just reffering to that the majority of Sunni practice their faith similarly. If someone is on the right path or not that is for Allah to decide because we can’t see through people of what they claim to be is true or not. So be fair and and don’t use the exception of the rule rather the general teachings which is Sunni, which is practiced by almost 90 % of Muslims.

Ok, assuming this Hadith is true (which I believe) it is true, it does not mean "seal of Prophets" means the Last Prophet.

Muhamamd is the Seal of Prophets, and yes, He is also the Last Prophet, of a House that this Hadith is talking about.

Notice, it does not say, there will not be anymore Prophets after Muhammad "Forever"

this is a part of the last sermon of the prophet before he died.

"O People! No Prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore O People! and understand words that I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray

Were We then fatigued with the first creation? Yet are they in doubt with regard to a new creation." 50:15

this has nothing to do with the house in the Hadith see next response

Notice that, whatever Hadith, Muhammad said, its knowledge has come from the Quran. It is not like, Muhammad ever said something that is not in the Quran! If one thinks, Muhammad said something, which is not in the Quran, That would mean, Quran is not complete. Obviously that would be a false idea.


This verse, 50:15, is talking about the Hadith that you quoted, regarding creation of a House. This House, which is a similitude of the human civilization, created by God, through successive Revelations of the Prophets, is referred as the first creation in this verse. Muhammad is like a last brick of this House.

The verse assures that, after this first creation, God creates a new Creation. What does that mean? It means, the new creation will have its own chain of Prophets and Revelations.
Did not Muhammad reveal in the Quran, that, there will be a new Revelation after Quran, known as Day of Resurrection?

No the Quran is complete. The prophets Convey gods revelation and explain revelation. Similarly with prophet Mohamed. He is the messenger and explains us the revelation. He is also our example. If god chose him to reveal his revelation through him then he is the best of us.

About the house. The Hadith I provided is an analogy. If a building has one more stone to put in and then it’s complete. Likewise prophet was the last prophet he would sends the prophethood is complete.
The verse you have put in, has nothing to do with this.
Even so let say If Allah decides to create another creation beside us then be it. Prophet Mohamed is the last prophet of this creation.


By the way maybe it’s easy to stick one topic at a time. I have no problems discussing this with you but if there are to much topics at the same time, it wouldn’t be beneficial for both of us. Pick what you wanna talk about

Cheers

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Don’t get me wrong we acknowledge as Muslims that there are those that move away from the path.
And no it’s not saying Islam, it’s talking about the people. We say Islam is perfect and those follow aren’t

my Ummah will split into seventy-three sects. All of them are in the Fire Except one sect

There will be one sect that won’t be in the fire. And don’t forget this is a prophesy that will happen, doesn’t mean it’s already happen

Every Ummah has an expiry time, which is the lifespan of that Ummah. It means, that, the guidance in an Ummah only lasts for a limited time. After that, a new Guidance from God is required.

for example, Ummah of Moses lasted 1600 years, from Moses, till Jesus. Why Jesus came after Moses? Because the Ummah of Moses had lost the original guidance.
Likewise, 600 years after Jesus, the Ummah of Jesus was expired. The Christians lost the guidence. It was the time for a new guidance. Hence Muhammad was sent.
the Ummah of Muhammad is no exception. Every Ummah has an End, once their End comes, God does not wait even one hour but He sends a new guidance:

"For each community (Ummah) there is an appointed term. When their time arrives, they can neither delay it for a moment, nor could they advance it. O children of Adam! there shall come to you Apostles from among yourselves, rehearsing my signs to you; and whoso shall fear God and do good works, no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they be put to grief" Quran 7:34-35

The lifespan of Ummah of Muhammad, according to the Quran and Hadith was 1000 years:


"They challenge you ˹O Prophet˺ to hasten the torment. And Allah will never fail in His promise. But a day with your Lord is indeed like a thousand years by your counting." Quran 22:47

Prophet said:
"If my Ummah stands firm on the true path, it will live for a day [1,000 years]. If it does not stand firm on it, it will live half a day [500 years]."

Then the Prophet prayed that, His Ummah will stand firm, and instead of 500 years, it will last 1000 years:

on the authority of Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas reads as follows, "I pray to my Allah to maintain my Ummat's power till the end of half a day." When asked what was meant by "half a day," Sa'd replied that it was 500 years.

no I was just reffering to that the majority of Sunni practice their faith similarly. If someone is on the right path or not that is for Allah to decide because we can’t see through people of what they claim to be is true or not. So be fair and and don’t use the exception of the rule rather the general teachings which is Sunni, which is practiced by almost 90 % of Muslims.

Firstly, Sunni Islam ia divided into many sects. Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali are just the main ones, though these sects are farther divided.

But beside this, being majority does not mean, to be on the right path. If that was the case, the Catholics could have claimed to be on the right Path, since they have a high population.

this is a part of the last sermon of the prophet before he died.

"O People! No Prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore O People! and understand words that I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray

I understand that part of the problem is, you may not read Arabic.

This translation that you quoted is not correct. In the original Arabic, the Prophet does not say this:

"People! No Prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born"

I encourage you to ask those who can read Arabic, investigate and tell you.

this has nothing to do with the house in the Hadith see next response

Just to say this is not what the Hadith says, is not enough. You need to explain what the verses is about.

No the Quran is complete. The prophets Convey gods revelation and explain revelation. Similarly with prophet Mohamed. He is the messenger and explains us the revelation. He is also our example. If god chose him to reveal his revelation through him then he is the best of us.

About the house. The Hadith I provided is an analogy. If a building has one more stone to put in and then it’s complete. Likewise prophet was the last prophet he would sends the prophethood is complete.
The verse you have put in, has nothing to do with this.
Even so let say If Allah decides to create another creation beside us then be it. Prophet Mohamed is the last prophet of this creation.

By the first creation is meant, from Adam till Muhammad. Muhammad was the Last Prophet of that creation.
We now are part of a new creation, and thus, a new chains of guidance will have to come.

there is no verse in the Quran saying, there won't be another Messenger after Muhammad, or Quran is the final Revelation.
don't you think, if God wanted to stop His revelations, He would have said that clearly in the Quran?

By the way maybe it’s easy to stick one topic at a time. I have no problems discussing this with you but if there are to much topics at the same time, it wouldn’t be beneficial for both of us. Pick what you wanna talk about

Cheers

It is on the Topic.
What I am debating is, "Day of Resurrection", is an expression meaning a guidance from God. You keep ignoring this, and don't want to address it, why?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Every Ummah has an expiry time, which is the lifespan of that Ummah. It means, that, the guidance in an Ummah only lasts for a limited time. After that, a new Guidance from God is required.

for example, Ummah of Moses lasted 1600 years, from Moses, till Jesus. Why Jesus came after Moses? Because the Ummah of Moses had lost the original guidance.
Likewise, 600 years after Jesus, the Ummah of Jesus was expired. The Christians lost the guidence. It was the time for a new guidance. Hence Muhammad was sent.
the Ummah of Muhammad is no exception. Every Ummah has an End, once their End comes, God does not wait even one hour but He sends a new guidance:

"For each community (Ummah) there is an appointed term. When their time arrives, they can neither delay it for a moment, nor could they advance it. O children of Adam! there shall come to you Apostles from among yourselves, rehearsing my signs to you; and whoso shall fear God and do good works, no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they be put to grief" Quran 7:34-35

The lifespan of Ummah of Muhammad, according to the Quran and Hadith was 1000 years:


"They challenge you ˹O Prophet˺ to hasten the torment. And Allah will never fail in His promise. But a day with your Lord is indeed like a thousand years by your counting." Quran 22:47

Prophet said:
"If my Ummah stands firm on the true path, it will live for a day [1,000 years]. If it does not stand firm on it, it will live half a day [500 years]."

Then the Prophet prayed that, His Ummah will stand firm, and instead of 500 years, it will last 1000 years:

on the authority of Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas reads as follows, "I pray to my Allah to maintain my Ummat's power till the end of half a day." When asked what was meant by "half a day," Sa'd replied that it was 500 years.






Firstly, Sunni Islam ia divided into many sects. Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali are just the main ones, though these sects are farther divided.

But beside this, being majority does not mean, to be on the right path. If that was the case, the Catholics could have claimed to be on the right Path, since they have a high population.



I understand that part of the problem is, you may not read Arabic.

This translation that you quoted is not correct. In the original Arabic, the Prophet does not say this:

"People! No Prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born"

I encourage you to ask those who can read Arabic, investigate and tell you.



Just to say this is not what the Hadith says, is not enough. You need to explain what the verses is about.




By the first creation is meant, from Adam till Muhammad. Muhammad was the Last Prophet of that creation.
We now are part of a new creation, and thus, a new chains of guidance will have to come.

there is no verse in the Quran saying, there won't be another Messenger after Muhammad, or Quran is the final Revelation.
don't you think, if God wanted to stop His revelations, He would have said that clearly in the Quran?




It is on the Topic.
What I am debating is, "Day of Resurrection", is an expression meaning a guidance from God. You keep ignoring this, and don't want to address it, why?

That’s why I am saying let’s continue this one topic at time. If we are gonna respond to multiple things at the same time it would be chaotic. So pick one thing you wanna talk about and then we continue to the others

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Every Ummah has an expiry time, which the lifespan of that Ummah. It means, that, the guidance in an Ummah is only last for a limited time. After that, a new Guidance from God is required.

So are you claiming this goes eternal? This New guidance that is required

Prophet said:
"If my Ummah stands firm on the true path, it will live for a day [1,000 years]. If it does not stand firm on it, it will live half a day [500 years]."

Which Hadith is this?

 

[Truthseeker]

"For each community (Ummah) there is an appointed term. When their time arrives, they can neither delay it for a moment, nor could they advance it. O children of Adam! there shall come to you Apostles from among yourselves, rehearsing my signs to you; and whoso shall fear God and do good works, no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they be put to grief" Quran 7:34-35

Yusuf Ali translates Ummah as people but in another place in Yusuf Ali's translation where people is the translation of ummah it is said:

47. To every people (was sent)
An Apostle: when their Apostle
Comes (before them), the matter
Will be judged between them
With justice, and they
Will not be wronged.
Muhammad , "The Holy Qur-an", 10.47

Also:

67. To every People have We
Appointed rites and ceremonies
Which they must follow:
Muhammad , "The Holy Qur-an", 22.67

This is addressed to you also @MayPeaceBeUpOnYou.

This is gleaned from Moojan Momen's scholarship.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So are you claiming this goes eternal? This New guidance that is required

I am sayng the message of Quran is, that, the Guidance from God has no end.

There is no Final Revelation. God reveals a Book for each period. Once that period ends, God reveals a new Book, in which He could abrogate some of the Laws and Ordinances and replace them with a new Law:

"We did send messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of a messenger to bring a sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed). God blots out what He will, or He confirms; and with Him is the Mother of the Book" Quran 13:38-39


For example, Torah was revealed for a period of nearly 1600 years. Once that period Ended, Injil (Gospel) was revealed for the next period. Once the Period of Injil was ended, Quran was revealed. There is exception to this Rule. The period assigned for Quran is 1000 years:

"He directs the command (ordinances) from the heaven to the earth, then it ascends to Him within a day whose measure is a thousand years of your counting." Quran 32:5

That means, God sent down the commands related to the Laws of the Quran. Then after a period of 1000 years, it goes back, up to Him, and the period of Quran ends.

How does God reveal a Book for each period? He does that, through His Messengers. This has been always the way of God to send Messengers, and there is no change in the way of Allah with regards to sending Messengers:

"They were about to intimidate you to drive you out of the land ˹of Mecca˺, but then they would not have survived after you ˹had left˺ except for a little while. ˹This has been˺ Our way with the messengers We sent before you. And you will never find any change in Our way."
Quran 17:76-77

Which Hadith is this?

This is a Hadith, narrated by Ibni Arabi


وقال العارف ابن عربي : قال سيدنا رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم -: "إن صلحت أمتي؛ فلها يوم؛ وإن فسدت؛ فلها نصف يوم" ؛ واليوم رباني؛ فإن أيام الرب كل يوم ألف سنة مما يعد بخلاف أيام الله

إسلام ويب - فيض القدير - حرف الدال- الجزء رقم3

اكتشف في مقالنا 'الدنيا سبعة أيام من أيام الآخرة' كيف يبرز حديث أنس أهمية الحياة الدنيا كتجربة قصيرة مقارنة بالآخرة. استعرض معنا مفهوم العمر الزائل وتأثيره على القرارات والأفعال في حياتنا اليومية.

www.islamweb.net

The Prophet said:
"If My Ummah keeps on the right Path, it will have an age of a Day, and if it becomes corrupted, it will last half a Day."
A Day of God, is a thousand year...

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That’s why I am saying let’s continue this one topic at time. If we are gonna respond to multiple things at the same time it would be chaotic. So pick one thing you wanna talk about and then we continue to the others

You can choose to respond to whatever you like.

I see, understanding the concept of "Day of Resurrection" as the most important thing in the Quran. There are about 2000 verses of the Quran related to Resurrection Day. No other thing is repeatedly mentioned so much in the Quran. You might want to continue with that.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

am sayng the message of Quran is, that, the Guidance from God has no end.

You believe the world is never gonna end?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You believe the world is never gonna end?

I believe in science. According to science, the Energy of the Sun is limited in some Millions of years from now, it will extinguish and expand. At that time our solar system will be destroyed.
But, that does not mean, Creation of God ends in this world. There are many other Galaxies. By then, perhaps human science and technology is so advanced that they will have immigrated to other Galaxies.

But as regards to the End of World that is mentioned in the Holy Books, its meaning is not a literal ending.
According to Scriptures, God created a World that was to last 6000 years. It started with Adam. 6000 years that old world Ended, and now, we live in the new Creation.
This is mentioned in Quran and Hadith, as well as the Bible, if one reads them very carefully.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I believe in science. According to science, the Energy of the Sun is limited in some Millions of years from now, it will extinguish and expand. At that time our solar system will be destroyed.
But, that does not mean, Creation of God ends in this world. There are many other Galaxies. By then, perhaps human science and technology is so advanced that they will have immigrated to other Galaxies.

But as regards to the End of World that is mentioned in the Holy Books, its meaning is not a literal ending.
According to Scriptures, God created a World that was to last 6000 years. It started with Adam. 6000 years that old world Ended, and now, we live in the new Creation.
This is mentioned in Quran and Hadith, as well as the Bible, if one reads them very carefully.

Right. So I have respect for your beliefs but your beliefs doesn’t harmonize the Quran, the Hadith and Tafsir in its totally Unless you pick and choose what confirm your beliefs rather then excepting everything which I assume you don’t. Do you accept all of the Quran, Hadith and Tafsir?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Right. So I have respect for your beliefs but your beliefs doesn’t harmonize the Quran, the Hadith and Tafsir in its totally Unless you pick and choose what confirm your beliefs rather then excepting everything which I assume you don’t.

this is the place to debate. Explain why and support your claim with verses and Authentic Hadithes, like I did.

Do you accept all of the Quran, Hadith and Tafsir?

I accept, Quran, and Authentic Hadith, regardless they are from Sunni, Shia or Sufi.
I don't accept Tafseer necessarily, unless they are supported by Quran verses.
You understand that Tafseer is the opinion of Scholars. Scholars are fallible human beings, and history of Religions have shown that many Scholars are not trustworthy.

Look what Muhammad said:

"I [Muhammad] left among you two treasures which, if you cling to them, you shall not be led into error after me. One of them is greater than the other: The book of God (Quran), which is a rope stretched from Heaven to Earth, and [the second one is] my progeny, my Ahl al-Bayt. These two shall not be parted until they return to the pool [of abundance in paradise, kawthar.[1]"

Hadith of the thaqalayn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Muhammad have left two things: the Quran and Ahlulbayt. Some Sunni i Hadithes replaced Ahlulbayt with Sunnah.

Notice, it says two things. The Tafseer is not part of what Muhammad left for you! Kindly note.
Notice also, He said, the Quran is greater than the Ahlulbayt. I highlighted for you above.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Muhamamd is the Seal of Prophets, and yes, He is also the Last Prophet, of a House that this Hadith is talking abou

Sorry you did reply. So explain if he is the seal of the prophethood, how is that not the last prophet Allah will send? What is your understanding then?