What's the word for finalizing something then in Arabic?
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Muhammad said Christians are exalted until Judgement Day, why?
- Thread starter InvestigateTruth
- Start date
What's the word for finalizing something then in Arabic?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Nope. I gave so many sentences. Several times. Many many sentences. In arabic, as well as in transliteration. You are just avoiding them.
Exactly. Seal. Not signet ring.
I gave you plenty. Again and again. Again and again. You are avoiding them, and are asking the same question again after giving them to you on a platter.
Let me give you one just since you keep asking again and again.
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'The example of me and the other Prophets before me is that of a man who built a house and completed it except for one brick in the corner. People go around and admire it but say: ‘If only this brick were put in place!’ I am that brick, and I am the Seal (Khatam) of the Prophets (خَاتَم النَّبِيِّينَ).'" (Sahih Muslim 2286a)
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Dear, these Hadithes you quoted are not about accepting Muhammad as Final Prophet by previous Prophets.
Yes, generally, a later Prophet is superior to previous Prophets, only because the new Revelation is better than previous ones.
You can see the same about Jesus. Jesus is so, Superior to Moses and other Prophets, in Christianity. But it does not mean, Finality. Christians made the same mistake. They think Jesus is the last one, and the only one.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Means ending but also means the annihilation of it as that type of finishing end. You would not use for Prophet Mohammad (s) in terms of Prophets because it would mean he would be their end as in annihilation type. Which does not make sense. He doesn't come to annihilate them and finish them in that respect.
And if Mohammad (s) is the final Prophet (s), accepting Mohammad (s) and his family (a) superiority includes realizing God is going to end with them. Also realizing Mohammad (s) is the final Prophet (s) also implies realizing the Ahlulbayt (a) are the best as God would end with the best. So it can be seen in the theme of those hadiths.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Ya, agree.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Yes, there is an "If".
But to be superior to previous ones, it is not necessary to be the final.
The story of Khaatam, goes back to Hadithes regarding Ring of Solomon.
In Hadithes, the Ring of Solomon, reached to Muhammad. Then He was to pass it on, through the Imams, untill it reaches to the Mahdi.
The Hadithes goes on and says, when Mahdi comes, Ring of Solomon is with Him.
This Ring, in my view, does not have a physical existence, and never had.
It is a symbol of "Prophethood power" that God gives it.
This Prophethood, was to go through the chains of Prophets, as each Prophet promises the next One after Himself.
This is represented by the Ring "Khaatam".
When Muhammad came, the Prophethood was with Him.
This Prophethood must pass on to the next One, being the Mahdi.
So, this is the meaning of the Hadith.
عن أميرالمؤمنين عليه السلام : «لم يجز لنبيّ نبوَّة حتّى يأخذ خاتَِما من محمّد صلى الله عليه و آله ، فلذلك سُمّي خاتم النبيِّين»
"Prophethood is not permitted to Prophet untill He takes the Ring from Muhammad. For this, He is called Ring of Prophets."
Is an allusion, that, after Muhammad there will other Prophets, who, get permission of Prophethood from Muhammad, as they are Promised Ones of Muhammad (Mahdi and Return of Christ).
That's my take, from the title of "Ring of Prophets"
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Yes,
1. He is the Seal of Prophets.
2. And He is the last Brick of the House.
These are two different things.
The problem is, it cannot be concluded that, Since Muhammad is the Last Prophet, therefore Seal of Prophet means Last. I hope it is clear, what I am trying to say.
Because you can say, by " Seal", is meant, Seal of Authentication.
He was the last Prophet, and also He confirmd or Authenticated Prophets (hence Seal of Prophets).
I am not arguing that, He did not say, He is the Last Prophet. Of course He said He is the last Prophet. But when He said, He is the Seal of Prophets, He did not mean, the Last prophet.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Nope. It's one single statement. One single hadith. Not two different things.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
You can make that conclusion for yourself. Muhammad did not say, "Seal of Prophets" means "Final Prophet".
If you look at the context of the verses, the subject is not about Finality:
"˹And ˹remember, O Prophet,˺ when you said to the one for whom Allah has done a favour and you ˹too˺ have done a favour, “Keep your wife and fear Allah,” while concealing within yourself what Allah was going to reveal. And ˹so˺ you were considering the people, whereas Allah was more worthy of your consideration. So when Zaid totally lost interest in ˹keeping˺ his wife, We gave her to you in marriage, so that there would be no blame on the believers for marrying the ex-wives of their adopted sons after their divorce. And Allah’s command is totally binding.
There is no blame on the Prophet for doing what Allah has ordained for him. That has been the way of Allah with those ˹prophets˺ who had gone before. And Allah’s command has been firmly decreed.
That is His way with˺ those ˹prophets˺ who deliver the messages of Allah, and consider Him, and none but Allah. And sufficient is Allah as a ˹vigilant˺ Reckoner.
Muḥammad is not the father of any of your men, but is the Messenger of Allah and the seal of the prophets. And Allah has ˹perfect˺ knowledge of all things."
Quran, 33:37-40
The context is about Wives, and Zaid, etc. It is not talking about Finality.
Should see what connection is between Zaid, Wife, and that Muhammad is not the Father of any of your men, and then "Seal of Prophets".
firedragon
Veteran Member
He did. Within that hadith, and many other ahadith.
Also, I have given you lexicons. I spoon-fed you with images. I Even transliterated some of the statements written in those lexicons because you can't read arabic.
Cheers.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Good luck then
Salam
The style in that Surah is to mention the issues of his wives along with the rank and position of the Nabi (s) to build what I would call a base case for modesty and sexual control conduct as well this Surah has a unique emphasis on honoring the Prophet other Surahs do not. I will get to this.
This is not the only place it does it. It does it with Awla position of the Nabi (s), he combining all blessings in creation and God's wish to only keep uncleanness from his holy soul and purify him and his family with a unique purification, as well it addresses the wives to fear God before the Salawat verse.
This is to emphasize they are married to a very ultra important person. This Surah also brings the issue of Zaid and one of Prophet's (s) wives, as this Surah wants to vindicate the reputation of the Nabi (s) from ill thoughts and near the end of the Surah it emphasizes to not speak evil of the Prophet (s) but also of not doing so for believers.
Some people today think, if a man or a woman looses their partner to flirtation and cheat, maybe it was better, because they weren't satisfied with each other.
In proofs, sometimes it's good to start with a base case. Base case in this case, is assume there is the best of God's creatures, the most exalted of them, what conduct is expected towards his wives?
In the case of Mohammad (s), he is like a father to believers, but is not really their father. The line "He is not the father of any of your men" means he is only metaphorically their father. Not really that.
But because it's so close to reality by him being the Messenger of God, God forbid believers to marry any of his wives after him.
Why is this important? In the case of Zaid, it's said Messenger (s) was ordered to do what he did so that no shame/blame would be any believers doing the same.
However, a person can than ask, why can't we marry his wives but allowed to marry believers wives after they die? Would there be "blame" on that?
But it uses a base case, to show, in the case of the Nabi (a), it's even evil to marry his wives after his death because of the veneration we owe to him. Yet, believers marrying after their spouses dies is allowed, but we can see their is a lesser type honoring required ALSO for believers, to not cheat. And for all humans in that respect, we shouldn't want to flirt with woman who are taken out of respect.
But these days - here in the West - things are different. There is open relationships, there are simps towards women taken and the women make it normal that they are taken and flirting with many guys.
If you try it to prove such things without a base case, they say, why. The guy could if he can't keep her, it's his fault. However, when you think of the best of God's creation, you quickly realize how evil it would be to flirt with his wives.
The other thing is that 33:6 and 33:33 both have mention Ahlulbayt (a) and the Salawat to Nabi (s) in Salah and Sunnah applies to his family (a), so clarification, they are not Nabis, would be on topic of that too.
The Quran doesn't have one paragraph in it. We write and think in paragraphs. Quran addresses to many topics at the same time and it flows in a multi-dimensional way.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Thanks.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe most of that is philosophical hogwash.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I never said that Muhammed is a false prophet.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Then you believe Quran is word of God, the same God that sent Jesus?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe you can tell he is not by what he says.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I do believe that it is a word of God for Arabs.