Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study

[akshaypareek]

muhammed and his likes couldnt forecast that what they had started (religion)would be a point of unnecessary discussions for thousands of years.and many would be killed uselessly on his interpretation of THE RELIGION . Rest is up to all to decide.

 

[Fatihah]

The only means we have of judging whether Muhammed was of good character is the Hadiths and Sunna and by todays standards it does'nt throw positives out at you about him.
Stoning is wrong full stop,its cruel and archaic along with cutting off hands and feet,lashings etc,1400 years ago is where it belongs and this is why Islam needs to change Sharia law Hudd penalties,it needs to be in the present IMHO not stuck in the past.

Response: That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But Islam is one of the largest of all religions, claiming over a billion worldwide. So I as well as the 1 billion + will disagree with you.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But Islam is one of the largest of all religions, claiming over a billion worldwide. So I as well as the 1 billion + will disagree with you.

Of course,i expect they will but by todays 2009 standards isn't stoning people to death wrong or do you think its justified? i'm curious

 

[Kodanshi]

Response: First and foremost, no main issue was ever established.

Firstly, stop sucking at BBCode. Secondly, I brought up the hadith, and even entitled the link Muhammad Strikes ‘Aishah in the Chest, or words to that effect. I highlighted the passage where he struck her, and quoted it on a number of occasions. You immediately sidelined the issue yet didn’t tell me exactly what you disagreed with until I kept throwing facts at you.

Secondly, your lying again.

Thirdly, learn English spelling and grammar and apply it correctly. How dare you accuse me of lying? Does your mind automatically lie so you assume everyone else does? You’ve revealed yourself the devious manipulator by taking issue with the hadith, calling it a fabrication, calling me a liar and yet not revealing exactly what you took issue with until I badgered you with the truth.

You made a mistake? How? How did you mistakingly distort a hadith after you've read it? This I have to hear.

Distort? That’s rich. I’ll tell you how. I read it years ago when I followed Islâm. Like most ahadith and the Qur’ân itself it contains masses of utterly banal and insipid data, but I remembered the main fact — that Muhammad hit ‘Aishah and caused her pain.

I couldn’t see it when I followed Islâm, but I realise now why so many non–muslims accuse muslims of Taqqiyah.

 

[ProudMuslim]

To apply a different law to a woman, simply because of her gender, and denying her rights to equality is sexist, pure and simple.

[FONT=&quot]Denying her rights in whose opinion? From a non-believer male point of view? From someone whose country treat women like whores and brainwash them to point they take pride in working in pornography? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So in your country Australia, don’t you have Miss Nudity, Miss Erotic, Miss Pole Dance, and many others “pageant contests” where women are competing on who is more promiscuous than the other? Why don’t we see the same for men? I don’t see men degraded into that level. Not only you are creating abhorring immorality between in your society but you actually limiting that to females only![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Oh and if you are not Australian, why don’t you start worrying about how some of your Western societies treats women, even dogs are more cared about and respected than them. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Am glad you skipped everything I posted in my previous post, it just shows that you don’t know how to respond to that. [/FONT]

That's sexist. You (not you personally, since you're female, but a husband) might as well as tell your wife to give commands, "Sit", "Walk", "Roll over" or "Fetch". It is absolutely degrading that for women, regardless of religion or race, would have to obey, like a dog or a slave.

[FONT=&quot]O my goodness!! Marriage is not a kindergarten. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Obey means conform to, when the woman conform with her obligation towards her husband she is obeying. When the man conforms with his obligation towards his wife, he is also obeying. Is this hard to grasp?[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]This whole continuous competition between the genders in the West is appalling and sick. [/FONT]


That's not equality. It is slavery.[/quote]

 

[ProudMuslim]

ProudMuslim talk of a woman's anatomy of bearing children, so IT WOULD SEEM that women deserve lesser rights, and must obey husband like a dog or a slave obeying her master.

Twisting and fabricating my words is the best you can come up with? What a pathetic shot.

 

[ProudMuslim]

The only means we have of judging whether Muhammed was of good character is the Hadiths and Sunna and by todays standards it does'nt throw positives out at you about him.
Stoning is wrong full stop,its cruel and archaic along with cutting off hands and feet,lashings etc,1400 years ago is where it belongs and this is why Islam needs to change Sharia law Hudd penalties,it needs to be in the present IMHO not stuck in the past.

If it belongs to 1400 years ago, why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the West? Or better yet, why is there staggering amount of conversion to Islam in western countries now in the 21 century?

I agree with you that the interpretation should be updated and in fact we call that "ijtihad". But i totally disagree with you in altering its fundamentals that are mentioned in the Qur'an.

 

[England my lionheart]

If it belongs to 1400 years ago, why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the West? Or better yet, why is there staggering amount of conversion to Islam in western countries now in the 21 century?

I agree with you that the interpretation should be updated and in fact we call that "ijtihad". But i totally disagree with you in altering its fundamentals that are mentioned in the Qur'an.

Once communism was the fastest growing political ideal but look where it is now,besides i think you over estimate Islams popularity,in fact in places such as Malaysia there are many who would like to see the back of it but they have little choice in the matter.
In my country there are more and more people who are leaving Islam because when they experience the freedom of our culture they start to question the validity of the Sharia law,Sunna and Hadith in modern times.
This is the problem for Islam IMHO there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim,there is no central leadership to tell its followers when they are doing something wrong and this IMHO is why Islam must change to accomodate Human rights especially.

 

[RemnanteK]

"I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8

Lord, God, Jehovah, Yahweh, Lord-Jehovah.

How is that for a weak God? I think God is Mighty indeed.

 

[England my lionheart]

Even Egypt is guilty of suppressing free speech BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Egypt blogger jailed for 'insult' Abdel Kareem Soliman's trial is an example of Islam not being able to accept criticism or see its own faults.
How many Wiccans ,Buddhists,Christians,Hindus etc are in prison for criticising its religion,i think its an easy answer but one you will not accept.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But Islam is one of the largest of all religions, claiming over a billion worldwide. So I as well as the 1 billion + will disagree with you.

I would like to address one more thing about the so called popularity of Islam,in Britain at this time Islam is the least popular of anything,be it the economy,politics,religion and is ancored to the bottom of the league because it does'nt stand up to scrutiny.
The bithrate of Muslims in Europe is three times higher that non Muslims which accounts for the growth,its much easier to instill Islam into a child as its inherited from the parents so these are not converts but people with little choice but to become Muslim.
Judaism is another inherited religion but there is no punishment for leaving it as i know of people of Jewish descent who do not practice the religion and the same goes for many other religions.
IMHO Islam should take a step back and honestly look at itself from an outside perspective and grasp what it is that makes it so unpopular to people here,the Muslim council of Great Britain has done its best to distance itself from extremists 11 Mar 2009 - Luton Protestors do not Speak for Muslims which is at least trying something positive,however when something is in the News a lot people learn more and more and realise that IMHO Islam isn't a religion of peace or choice and is riddled with Human rights issues that need to be addressed ASAP.

 

[ProudMuslim]

Once communism was the fastest growing political ideal but look where it is now

Are you kidding? Comparing Communism to Islam? Islam is over 1400 years old and is still growing strong. Communism popularity did not last more than 30 years altogether!

besides i think you over estimate Islams popularity,in fact in places such as Malaysia there are many who would like to see the back of it but they have little choice in the matter.

That is your opinion, not a fact.

In my country there are more and more people who are leaving Islam because when they experience the freedom of our culture they start to question the validity of the Sharia law,Sunna and Hadith in modern times.

In your country many more are embracing Islam despite of experiencing the "freedom" of your culture and the Islamophobia created by your media..

This is the problem for Islam IMHO there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim,

That is the most ridiculous comment.

there is no central leadership to tell its followers when they are doing something wrong and this IMHO is why Islam must change to accomodate Human rights especially.

Islam will never change to accommodate the quote of the day. You need to absorb this and accept it as a fact. It did not change before and it will not change now or ever. Just because you think death penalty is barbaric does not mean it is, we think murdering someone is barbaric and therefore the death of the criminal is justifiable act. The point is, this whole movement of Master vs Slave scenario where the West must dictate to the rest of the world what to accept, eradicate, twist, keep, add, etc does not mean we have to kneel to this modern day colonialism.

The West contribution in technology, education, health, inventions, infrastructure of its societies and progression is very much appreciated and respected. In many ways they set a role model to follow. But at the same time sacred values have lost their meaning in the West. Family bond, morality, God-fearing principals and most importantly faith have faded away gradually. This totally "free" and spiritually empty society caused many problems to your people that no one can even deny.

Yes we do have our own problems as well that need to be exterminated. Many Muslims are genuinely seeking to reform society and update the interpretations of Islam. This will take time, there is and will be resistance to change. As a Muslim i do know the difference between the teachings of Islam and the traditions followed by the Muslims. Yes there isn't consensus among Muslims over everything but over the fundamentals yes there is. And Yes I can accept that non-Muslims cannot tell which is Islamic teaching and which is some man-made law/custom/tradition and therefor it is our duty to correct the image of Islam.

But

It is not your place as a non-Muslim to tell me what is Islamic and which is not, you might hear different answers to some of your questions. It is absolutely ridiculous to pick one that suits your agenda and insist on others to change Islam. Use your brain and ask yourself would Islam be this big today if it was horrible? You don't have to agree with its teachings. I don't agree with Christianity teachings but do i think it is a horrible religion? Of course not. It has brought the comfort to over 2 billion. The same can be said about other religions.

 

[kai]

Why is Islam so widespread ? Thats easy, Empire

Why are there so many Muslims ? Empire again.

Why is Islam growing in the west ? Thats easy, Immigration and birth rates

Maybe its now that Islam will face its greatest test, its now that Muslims who come to or are born into modern democratic countries will have to face the test of a doctrine 1400 years old.

The thing is, how many Muslims can look at their religion from a different perspective ? how many can suspend belief for a moment and contemplate the Quran,Hadiths, etc, from the view of an unbeliever.
This capacity ,to look at things from another's point of view, is one of the greatest attributes of human beings and lack of it ,one of its greatest failures .

Will Islam stand the test of time ? i don't know, but Islam is no longer sheltered by mighty Empires, its out there in the world standing on its own merit.and only time will tell.

 

[Fatihah]

I would like to address one more thing about the so called popularity of Islam,in Britain at this time Islam is the least popular of anything,be it the economy,politics,religion and is ancored to the bottom of the league because it does'nt stand up to scrutiny.
The bithrate of Muslims in Europe is three times higher that non Muslims which accounts for the growth,its much easier to instill Islam into a child as its inherited from the parents so these are not converts but people with little choice but to become Muslim.

Response: I always found it amusing when a person says a statistic like muslims have a higher birth rate. First of all, according to who? Secondly, no one can honestly know that unless they single handedly went to every muslim home and personally found out how many kids are in every family worldwide which never took place. Lastly, none of these studies are not done by muslims but by non-muslims so who's to say that it's not all made up to make the muslims look bad?

Quote: England my lionheart
IMHO Islam should take a step back and honestly look at itself from an outside perspective and grasp what it is that makes it so unpopular to people here,the Muslim council of Great Britain has done its best to distance itself from extremists 11 Mar 2009 - Luton Protestors do not Speak for Muslims which is at least trying something positive,however when something is in the News a lot people learn more and more and realise that IMHO Islam isn't a religion of peace or choice and is riddled with Human rights issues that need to be addressed ASAP.

Response: On the contrary, the muslims no what makes it, as you say, "unpopular". The simpe answer, jealousy and envy. It has been the non-muslim tactic since day one to purposely make islam look back in order to hide their own atrocities. The islamic way of life has always been the most dominant and the most preferred but the non-muslim media does not want to display that because it makes themselves look bad.

When I go to the masjid, the love and respect being received between muslims supercedes the kind being received between non-muslims. But does your british media show that? Of course not. But the second something blows up or a murder is done by a muslim, the british media is all over it. So it's not the fact that muslims don't know what's going on. We do know and many non-muslims see the conspiracy too which is why they embrace islam as well.

 

[Fatihah]

Why is Islam growing in the west ? Thats easy, Immigration and birth rates

Response: You're right. That was easy. Easily said. Now all we need is the proof.

Quote: Kai
Maybe its now that Islam will face its greatest test, its now that Muslims who come to or are born into modern democratic countries will have to face the test of a doctrine 1400 years old.

The thing is, how many Muslims can look at their religion from a different perspective ? how many can suspend belief for a moment and contemplate the Quran,Hadiths, etc, from the view of an unbeliever.
This capacity ,to look at things from another's point of view, is one of the greatest attributes of human beings and lack of it ,one of its greatest failures .

Will Islam stand the test of time ? i don't know, but Islam is no longer sheltered by mighty Empires, its out there in the world standing on its own merit.and only time will tell.

Response: The question of muslims looking looking at islam from a non-muslim perspective has already been answered. The outcome, over 1 billion muslims and counting. In just the last month alone, I know of 4 people who deserted their religious beliefs and embraced islam. Why? Because they didn't allow the media to tell them what islam is. They discovered it themselves and found the truth of the matter just like all the many non-muslims who convert from their former religious beliefs to islam do. That islam is the religion of peace and the most beautiful of all religions, despite the West's conspiracy to make it seem otherwise.

 

[Fatihah]

Of course,i expect they will but by todays 2009 standards isn't stoning people to death wrong or do you think its justified? i'm curious

Response: The punishment of stoning to death was justified in the past by all the prophets but today, the qur'an only allows 100 lashes for the crime. Yet if Allah wanted the punishment of stoning to death for the certain crime (sex outside of marriage) to continue, I say that the punishment is justified. Seems you disagree. I'm curious as to why myself. I've seen you discussing this with someone previously on the thread but I was too buisy responding to others so I didn't catch your response.

 

[kai]

Response: The question of muslims looking looking at islam from a non-muslim perspective has already been answered. The outcome, over 1 billion muslims and counting. In just the last month alone, I know of 4 people who deserted their religious beliefs and embraced islam. Why? Because they didn't allow the media to tell them what islam is. They discovered it themselves and found the truth of the matter just like all the many non-muslims who convert from their former religious beliefs to islam do. That islam is the religion of peace and the most beautiful of all religions, despite the West's conspiracy to make it seem otherwise.

Good for them the 4 i mean not the millions that are born into Islam ,and personally i think some Muslims are Islams worst enemy.

conspiracy ? what Conspiracy?

 

[Fatihah]

Firstly, stop sucking at BBCode. Secondly, I brought up the hadith, and even entitled the link Muhammad Strikes ‘Aishah in the Chest, or words to that effect. I highlighted the passage where he struck her, and quoted it on a number of occasions. You immediately sidelined the issue yet didn’t tell me exactly what you disagreed with until I kept throwing facts at you.

Response: In order for me to sideline an issue, the issue would have to be established. You never established what your issue was with the hadiths and what you disagreed or disliked. Therefore nothing was sidelined.

Quote
Thirdly, learn English spelling and grammar and apply it correctly. How dare you accuse me of lying? Does your mind automatically lie so you assume everyone else does? You’ve revealed yourself the devious manipulator by taking issue with the hadith, calling it a fabrication, calling me a liar and yet not revealing exactly what you took issue with until I badgered you with the truth.

Response: What does that have to do with you lying in the first place?

Distort? That’s rich. I’ll tell you how. I read it years ago when I followed Isl�m. Like most ahadith and the Qur’�n itself it contains masses of utterly banal and insipid data, but I remembered the main fact — that Muhammad hit ‘Aishah and caused her pain.

I couldn’t see it when I followed Isl�m, but I realise now why so many non–muslims accuse muslims of Taqqiyah.

Response: Why is that? Is it because they feel some type of way when they are caught lying like you?

 

[Fatihah]

"I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8

Lord, God, Jehovah, Yahweh, Lord-Jehovah.

How is that for a weak God? I think God is Mighty indeed.

Response: Isaiah 42. I'm not a fan of the bible but I do like the book of Isaiah because it contains a few prophecies of Muhammad.

 

[Fatihah]

muhammed and his likes couldnt forecast that what they had started (religion)would be a point of unnecessary discussions for thousands of years.and many would be killed uselessly on his interpretation of THE RELIGION . Rest is up to all to decide.

Response: Firstly, it's not his interpretation, it's The interpretaion. Secondly, Muhammad predicted all of this in many of the hadiths.