Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study

[Gharib]

Eselam, cow hide is primarily the source for leather products. The reason for this is that they have a large surface area that can be used, as opposed to the hide of a dog, or any smaller animal. Granted I have only been on this planet for 53 years, but I have yet to hear of anyone having anything made from a "dog pelt". It just isn't done... at least, as far as I am aware.

For more information you can read up on leather here -=> All you wanted to know about leather but were afraid you'd look stupid asking

well as far as i was aware, leather was made from dogs, but i guess i was wrong.

But Eselam, you must try to appreciate that when a person makes an absolutely idiotic remark, they have to expect that they are going to be laughed right out of the room. What you may not understand is that Mes isn't trying to derail the thread, per se. Rather, he is so enchanted by the comments that he cannot stop laughing. What his retorts mean is that there is no reason to take the person who made the comment which precipitated his response seriously, as the point made was farcical. Do you understand at least that much

i do understand, but it's just idiotic. if he can't stand it no one wants to hear from him either, but i said, that maturity barries would be a good idea.

 

[McBell]

i do understand, but it's just idiotic.

Do you honestly understand?
Here you are arguing things that my seven year old daughter knows is just flat out false.
If you are honestly that ignorant of the world, then I apologize.

For I was under the impression that you were just being belligerent.

if he can't stand it no one wants to hear from him either,

My frubals beg to differ.

but i said, that maturity barriers would be a good idea.

I agree.
But are we going to go by your standards, or mine?
And why not have ignorance barriers as well?
If you are only so smart and or mature you are only allowed to post in "Children's Section" of RF..

 

[England my lionheart]

aren't you the person that said "i'd go there for 6 grand a week with no tax" (it may not be correct word to word)
I did say that but in reality i could not because i would'nt be able to be a hypocrite


why thank "goodness" it's just a word, it cannot bring you any good. why not thank god instead?
Goodness will do


this is where you blew it. all along i thought you were someone of understanding, a smart man, i guess i judged the book by it's covers.
All the current terrorist attacks have been carried out by people of either Middle Easter or Asian ethnicity so the security at airports concentrate on those and i have seen them having even their shoes checked,yes it is unfair that the majority suffers for a minority.

it seem you all live in perfect harmony, hurray for equality.
No not at all,its not perfect by any measure and there are many issues for all of us here but saying that we don't live in the dark ages.



not what i've heard of.
You can make leather from most any skin but the only cost effective way is from Cattle,Turkey is a massive exporter of leather,Dogs are just to small.



why are you so affraid, i've never come across someone to be so affraid of something for nothing.

I am not afraid,well thats not true,i am afraid i would'nt be able to keep my mouth shut and say something that would get me in trouble.

 

[Judgment]

eselam: that was a joke between me and Fatihah, you can't take it seriously.

That's good to hear.

eselam: don't worry about it. you'll never get it

Correct. I will never believe that black dogs are evil and should be killed. This belief should disappear.

eselam: yes it takes a human form aswell but the thing with muhammed (saws) was about dreams (it appears in peoples dreams claiming that it is muhammed (saws) but it cannot copy his face, therefore muslims know that it wasn't muhammed (saws) in the dream, it was the devil. muhammed (saws) appears to us with his face but the devil can't)

when the devil takes an earthly form such as both human and animal, it doesn't nessessaraly turn into a balck being. it can have other colours, but we cannot go harming all creatures just because we think it may be a devil. but when we see a black animal it most deffinately is a devil. so what i'm saying is that it doesn't always transform into a black animal, it can also transform into a different coloured animal appart from black.

I see - you are only sure when the animal is black.

This thought process is happening only because you believe every word of your religion. Unfortunately, that is not something only Muslims are vulnerable to.

I am assuming this includes black Crows, Ravens, Black House Cats, Panthers, Bears, rabbits.. etc... ? Have all of these animals been exterminated because they are deemed evil ?

 

[Gharib]

Do you honestly understand?
Here you are arguing things that my seven year old daughter knows is just flat out false.
If you are honestly that ignorant of the world, then I apologize.

For I was under the impression that you were just being belligerent.


My frubals beg to differ.


I agree.
But are we going to go by your standards, or mine?
And why not have ignorance barriers as well?
If you are only so smart and or mature you are only allowed to post in "Children's Section" of RF..

ah, this really got you didn't it, this time it really burned didn't it. it seems you hate it when someone critisises you or when they call you something.

if i'm lying then you could have just posted one of your child pictures on here just as you are about to do

 

[McBell]

ah, this really got you didn't it, this time it really burned didn't it. it seems you hate it when someone critisises you or when they call you something.

if i'm lying then you could have just posted one of your child pictures on here just as you are about to do

It takes a lot more than your childish ignorance to "get" to me.

Criticize all you want.
I have been here long enough that those who have been here and have actually engaged with me in conversation know me well enough for me to not be bothered by your ignorant opinions/assumptions of me.

Truth be told, if I weren't so bored, I would not be bothered with you.
You are far to proud of your ignorance for any meaningful interaction.

 

[Gharib]

It takes a lot more than your childish ignorance to "get" to me.

good for you.

Criticize all you want.

you wan't me to criticize? not worth it.

I have been here long enough that those who have been here and have actually engaged with me in conversation know me well enough for me to not be bothered by your ignorant opinions/assumptions of me.

cos you say so right?

Truth be told, if I weren't so bored, I would not be bothered with you.

right back at you.

You are far to proud of your ignorance for any meaningful interaction.

thats you oppinion, what else?

 

[Fatihah]

You have explained it very well,from my non Muslim perspective i find it incredible
that people practice this and view adultery as such a serious crime and find it even more incredible that it is accepted.

Response: Do you believe that there should be a punishment for fornication/adultery?

 

[Gharib]

Response: Do you believe that there should be a punishment for fornication/adultery?

i wan't to add something to your post so that england may answer if he has the time,;

why do western countries punish those who take and/or sell drugs. is taking drugs better or worse than adultery?

 

[gnostic]

why do western countries punish those who take and/or sell drugs. is taking drugs better or worse than adultery?

They are completely different things, so such a comparison is next to uselessness.

Perhaps you should compare adultery against rape, incest, or pedophilia.

Drug can result in death or brain damage. The same can't be said with adultery...though, a jealous spouse could maim or kill you, but that's is not the result of adultery itself.

 

[YmirGF]

Response: Do you believe that there should be a punishment for fornication/adultery?

We do have punishment, of a sorts, in that adultery can be used as grounds for divorce. The difference is that society does not punish the adulterer above and beyond that. In my view 100 lashes or stoning, as handed down by the society itself for the act is the definition of immorality. Yes, Immoral - as well as completely barbaric.

i wan't to add something to your post so that england may answer if he has the time,;

why do western countries punish those who take and/or sell drugs. is taking drugs better or worse than adultery?

Drug users are punished because the majority of our population does not understand why people take drugs. Our laws are a reaction to the obvious harm many "hard" drugs have on the individual and society they live in. Prosecution of drug dealers is different issue. These are people who make money off of the misfortunate and lack of will power of others.
Although I see how you might think the three things are similar, they are far different and cannot seriously be considered in the same light.

Though I suspect that many people believe they are their brother's keeper, the truth is that we are not and we have no right to force our concepts of morality onto others.

 

[Gharib]

They are completely different things, so such a comparison is next to uselessness.

not all people are as smart as your self to think that, i for one didn't.

Perhaps you should compare adultery against rape, incest, or pedophilia.

no drugs is good. it doesn't nessessaraly have to be the same offence, i was just curious.

Drug can result in death or brain damage.

adultery can result in spreading viruses, it can harm the innocent. but drugs won't hurt me if you take them, so why are drug users prosecuted or punished, they cause harm to themself, not others. and why shoulden't adultery be punished as well when it is a much greater risk to society.

The same can't be said with adultery...though, a jealous spouse could maim or kill you, but that's is not the result of adultery itself

read my above statement.

 

[Fatihah]

They are completely different things, so such a comparison is next to uselessness.

Perhaps you should compare adultery against rape, incest, or pedophilia.

Drug can result in death or brain damage. The same can't be said with adultery...though, a jealous spouse could maim or kill you, but that's is not the result of adultery itself.

Response: So what if a drug results a person to have brain damage. What does that have to do with making it illegal to have drugs? If a person chooses to have drugs and don't care if I they get brain damage what's it to you? And why does that person deserve to be punished?

 

[Fatihah]

We do have punishment, of a sorts, in that adultery can be used as grounds for divorce. The difference is that society does not punish the adulterer above and beyond that. In my view 100 lashes or stoning, as handed down by the society itself for the act is the definition of immorality. Yes, Immoral - as well as completely barbaric.

Drug users are punished because the majority of our population does not understand why people take drugs. Our laws are a reaction to the obvious harm many "hard" drugs have on the individual and society they live in. Prosecution of drug dealers is different issue. These are people who make money off of the misfortunate and lack of will power of others.
Although I see how you might think the three things are similar, they are far different and cannot seriously be considered in the same light.

Though I suspect that many people believe they are their brother's keeper, the truth is that we are not and we have no right to force our concepts of morality onto others.

Response: It seems as though people are not giving an explaination but as to why the punishment for adultery/fornication in islam is so immoral or wrong. All I have seen so far is people saying what their feelings towards the punishment but that's it. This goes to show that even you and others who may criticize the punishment have no legitimate reason to say that the punishment is wrong or immoral.

 

[Gharib]

Response: It seems as though people are not giving an explaination but as to why the punishment for adultery/fornication in islam is so immoral or wrong. All I have seen so far is people saying what their feelings towards the punishment but that's it. This goes to show that even you and others who may criticize the punishment have no legitimate reason to say that the punishment is wrong or immoral.

you said it bro.

 

[gnostic]

adultery can result in spreading viruses, it can harm the innocent. but drugs won't hurt me if you take them, so why are drug users prosecuted or punished, they cause harm to themself, not others. and why shoulden't adultery be punished as well when it is a much greater risk to society.

Response: So what if a drug results a person to have brain damage. What does that have to do with making it illegal to have drugs? If a person chooses to have drugs and don't care if I they get brain damage what's it to you? And why does that person deserve to be punished?

Weak arguments....

You are saying that taking illegal drugs is choice of each person. So if they harm themselves, then what business is it mine. You are correct.

Well, the same thing could be said about adultery. A person can choose to cheat or to not cheat on the spouse. What bl#@dy business is it yours????

Now unless the adultery affects you in some way, like being a cheated spouse or their children (if they have any), then you have no right to butt in another's business, just as you've said I have no right to butt in the business of someone taking drugs.

Do you see how weak that your arguments are?

BTW. Did I say that drug users should be punished?

My previous post didn't say anything about punishing those addicted to drugs.

And again. BTW. Did I say that the cheating on a spouse is not immoral?

And you both seem to jump the guns, because I certainly did say adultery was the right thing to do. *sigh*

All I said is that they are two completely different things, and unrelated, so Fatihah's comparison between these two are not good ones.

And yet, you both blast me with something I didn't say about drug vs adultery.

And BTW (last one...but I can't promise you it would be the last). You both said that the drugs don't affect anyone but the drug-addicts. Well, you're wrong about that too. Addiction can cause split up between spouses as much as adultery, or break up the family. Death or brain damage from addiction can also affect family and friends, who may love them (eg. grief, sorrow, etc). And the worse thing about this is that they are unscrupulous people profit from their addiction and death.

So yes, people who sell or make such drugs should be arrested, imprisoned and punished.

You can punish adultery, but not in the barbaric way, such as lashings and stonings. As YmirGF have pointed out, settlements can be may through divorce, which is far more civilised. People who cheat on their spouses often experience financial and property losses, as well as lose custody of children (if they have any). Adulterers deserve to lose through such settlements, but they don't deserve to be beaten, flogged or stoned.

This is the reason why Islamic law is obsolete (as well as other Abrahamic laws).

Tell me, you two.

Do you believe in "eye for eye" and "tooth for tooth" punishment?

 

[Kodanshi]

In addition, those addicted to hard drugs usually turn to crime to fund their drug habits. They lose all sense of morality. William Burroughs once wrote that a heroin addict would ‘steal an opium suppository from his grandmother’s ass’ if he could get away with it.

 

[YmirGF]

Response: It seems as though people are not giving an explaination but as to why the punishment for adultery/fornication in islam is so immoral or wrong. All I have seen so far is people saying what their feelings towards the punishment but that's it. This goes to show that even you and others who may criticize the punishment have no legitimate reason to say that the punishment is wrong or immoral.

First of all Fatihah, it is quite unnecessary to write "Response:" prior to your comments. In theory, even the most craven idiot would understand that your comments are in fact your responses -- however weak they may be.

The act of stoning, in regards to adultery, as being immoral, should be obvious to anyone with the intellectual grasp of a carrot. It is a vast over-reaction to something that is, in essence, a private "affair" between two individuals. Society itself has no right to interfere in such a way in the "affairs" of three (or more) of its members. As a former Canadian Prime Minister, Pierre Elliot Trudeau once said, “The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation.” I agree. Aside from this someone long ago reportedly said, "He who is without sin, may cast the first stone."

The crime of lashing is also a primitive custom that leaves permanent scars on the victim and can cause death. Suffice to say that anyone receiving such a punishment would be emotionally scarred for the remainder of their lives. There are also documented cases of people who went insane while being publicly lashed. I would suggest that anyone who does not think that 50 or 100 lashes is not unreasonable should willingly submit to being lashed just 3 times. I rather expect supporters of such forms of punishment would quickly change their thinking that this is a fair and "just" punishment as it is little more than sadism enacted by a society on behalf of masochistic citizens.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Do you believe that there should be a punishment for fornication/adultery?

There are many Men here that will tell you that they have been punished,they lose the house and they must supplement the income of the spouse,the Children if any can only be visited at agreed times.
If you could call adultery a crime it would be a crime of passion and not worthy of a slow torturous death by stoning.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: So what if a drug results a person to have brain damage. What does that have to do with making it illegal to have drugs? If a person chooses to have drugs and don't care if I they get brain damage what's it to you? And why does that person deserve to be punished?

Adultey= two people having an extra marital affair
Drug addict= drug addicts,especially Heroin addicts steal to finance their habit
Do you see the difference,an affair is a very Human thing that has happened since Mankind staggered out of the primeval soup.