Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study

[Gharib]

Weak arguments....

You are saying that taking illegal drugs is choice of each person. So if they harm themselves, then what business is it mine. You are correct.

Well, the same thing could be said about adultery. A person can choose to cheat or to not cheat on the spouse. What bl#@dy business is it yours????

Now unless the adultery affects you in some way, like being a cheated spouse or their children (if they have any), then you have no right to butt in another's business, just as you've said I have no right to butt in the business of someone taking drugs.

Do you see how weak that your arguments are?

BTW. Did I say that drug users should be punished?

My previous post didn't say anything about punishing those addicted to drugs.

And again. BTW. Did I say that the cheating on a spouse is not immoral?

And you both seem to jump the guns, because I certainly did say adultery was the right thing to do. *sigh*

All I said is that they are two completely different things, and unrelated, so Fatihah's comparison between these two are not good ones.

And yet, you both blast me with something I didn't say about drug vs adultery.

And BTW (last one...but I can't promise you it would be the last). You both said that the drugs don't affect anyone but the drug-addicts. Well, you're wrong about that too. Addiction can cause split up between spouses as much as adultery, or break up the family. Death or brain damage from addiction can also affect family and friends, who may love them (eg. grief, sorrow, etc). And the worse thing about this is that they are unscrupulous people profit from their addiction and death.

So yes, people who sell or make such drugs should be arrested, imprisoned and punished.

You can punish adultery, but not in the barbaric way, such as lashings and stonings. As YmirGF have pointed out, settlements can be may through divorce, which is far more civilised. People who cheat on their spouses often experience financial and property losses, as well as lose custody of children (if they have any). Adulterers deserve to lose through such settlements, but they don't deserve to be beaten, flogged or stoned.

This is the reason why Islamic law is obsolete (as well as other Abrahamic laws).

Tell me, you two.

Do you believe in "eye for eye" and "tooth for tooth" punishment?

we do know you have said "drug users whould be punished" but i say no, they shouldn't. the reason being, why punish them for wanting to have some fun?

so compare this to adultery it goes like this "why punish them for wanting to have some fun"

now, tell me why is the adultery punishment so harsh to you, that they should not be killed?

and i will say that, drug addicts should not be punished at all, they just want some fun. why punish people for wanting to have fun.

 

[Gharib]

First of all Fatihah, it is quite unnecessary to write "Response:" prior to your comments. In theory, even the most craven idiot would understand that your comments are in fact your responses -- however weak they may be.

if you don't like it go tell a judge.

The act of stoning, in regards to adultery, as being immoral, should be obvious to anyone with the intellectual grasp of a carrot. It is a vast over-reaction to something that is, in essence, a private "affair" between two individuals.

the punishment of drug takes is so over-reacted to something that is a "private affair" between one person. there should be no punishment.

Society itself has no right to interfere in such a way in the "affairs" of three (or more) of its members. As a former Canadian Prime Minister, Pierre Elliot Trudeau once said, “The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation.” I agree. Aside from this someone long ago reportedly said, "He who is without sin, may cast the first stone."

as a non muslim that you are, people are free to do anything they wan't right? it is not the bussines of anyone to care what i drink, sniff, smoke, inject.

 

[Gharib]

Adultey= two people having an extra marital affair
Drug addict= drug addicts,especially Heroin addicts steal to finance their habit
Do you see the difference,an affair is a very Human thing that has happened since Mankind staggered out of the primeval soup.

i'd like to edit your post if that ok;

Adultery= 2 or more people causing harm to many people (family members)
Drug addict= one or many people wanting to have some fun time

do YOU see the difference, an affair can cause serious scars to someone, but drugs can lead to fun times, it is a very Human thing to want to have fun.

 

[England my lionheart]

i'd like to edit your post if that ok;

Adultery= 2 or more people causing harm to many people (family members)
Drug addict= one or many people wanting to have some fun time

do YOU see the difference, an affair can cause serious scars to someone, but drugs can lead to fun times, it is a very Human thing to want to have fun.

I enjoy the occasional Spliff and it is indeed fun but some drugs are anything but fun and cause a slow death that has a devastating effect on families.
Adultery is totally different to Drugs and it is difficult to see how you can compare the two,Adultery at its core has Human feelings whether its lust or love it is never the less Human,there are many reasons people commit adultery,a loveless marriage,an abusive partner or just love.
Adultery is something for the concience not for a religious edict be it Muslim Catholic etc,it is enough IMO that things can be settled fairly in a court of civil law without barbaric punishments.

 

[gnostic]

we do know you have said "drug users whould be punished" but i say no, they shouldn't.

I did not say that drug users should be punished.

This is what I wrote in post #530:

They are completely different things, so such a comparison is next to uselessness.

Perhaps you should compare adultery against rape, incest, or pedophilia.

Drug can result in death or brain damage. The same can't be said with adultery...though, a jealous spouse could maim or kill you, but that's is not the result of adultery itself.

All I said that drug can cause death or brain damage. And that adultery and drug is two totally different things, and can't be compared.

I don't know where on earth get it, but it is certainly not from me. You two are reading too much between the lines, without understanding what is really in plain sight. You have completely misunderstood my post.

You are putting words in my mouth.

the reason being, why punish them for wanting to have some fun?

so compare this to adultery it goes like this "why punish them for wanting to have some fun"

now, tell me why is the adultery punishment so harsh to you, that they should not be killed?

and i will say that, drug addicts should not be punished at all, they just want some fun. why punish people for wanting to have fun.

I'll repeat that I did not say drug addicts should be punished.

I do however think drug lords and traffickers (people who distribute or sell drugs) deserved punishments, but I did not say anything about drug addicts being punished.

The only thing I said about drug addicts is the possible effects or damages they do upon themselves.

You do understand the difference between drug addicts and drug traffickers?

 

[Gharib]

I did not say that drug users should be punished.

This is what I wrote in post #530:



All I said that drug can cause death or brain damage. And that adultery and drug is two totally different things, and can't be compared.

I don't know where on earth get it, but it is certainly not from me. You two are reading too much between the lines, without understanding what is really in plain sight. You have completely misunderstood my post.

You are putting words in my mouth.

I'll repeat that I did not say drug addicts should be punished.

I do however think drug lords and traffickers (people who distribute or sell drugs) deserved punishments, but I did not say anything about drug addicts being punished.

The only thing I said about drug addicts is the possible effects or damages they do upon themselves.

You do understand the difference between drug addicts and drug traffickers?

yes i know the difference, and i was meant to say drug traffickers, i knew you mentioned one of them but wasn't sure.

 

[Fatihah]

All I said is that they are two completely different things, and unrelated, so Fatihah's comparison between these two are not good ones.

And yet, you both blast me with something I didn't say about drug vs adultery.

And BTW (last one...but I can't promise you it would be the last). You both said that the drugs don't affect anyone but the drug-addicts. Well, you're wrong about that too.

Response: First you claim that I "blasted" you with something you didn't say and now here you are doing the same to me. So quote any post of mine in which I say that drugs don't affect anyone but the drug-addicts?

Quote: gnostic
Tell me, you two.

Do you believe in "eye for eye" and "tooth for tooth" punishment?

Response: Yes I do.

 

[Kodanshi]

Thought it would prove appropriate to post this video discussing the example and life of Muhammad:

YouTube - Prophet Muhammad

 

[England my lionheart]

Thought it would prove appropriate to post this video discussing the example and life of Muhammad:

YouTube - Prophet Muhammad

Very apt

 

[Fatihah]

Quote: Zephyr
If we're going to play with this analogy, Allah is the rapist and defying him is the moral choice.

Response: There's the statement. Now where's the proof?

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE: Zephyr]It is morally acceptable, even expected, to prevent somebody from harming another. This is what separates slavery and preventing rape. There is no contradiction.

Response: You're right. It's not a contridiction, it's being hypocritical. You say it's slavery to deny someone's will which is wrong and yet you would deny someone's will and say it's right. Being hypocritical is not an appealing trait, thus showing the beauty of islam and the lack thereof in your belief system because in islam, hypocrisy is rejected and accepted in your beliefs.

Quote: Zephyr
Allah is a slaver and humans have a moral obligation to defy him. If he and his influence were totally eliminated, it would be a step forward human dignity. Morally, Islam is no better than the slavery we so thankfully abolished here in the states.

Response: And yet you condone slavery based on your response above.

 

[JMorris]

SLAVERY OR ANARCHY!

only 2 options, no in between, pick sides

funny how non-muslim countries dont fall into a free for all. i wonder how they do it without bowing to allah?

 

[Fatihah]

SLAVERY OR ANARCHY!

only 2 options, no in between, pick sides

funny how non-muslim countries dont fall into a free for all. i wonder how they do it without bowing to allah?

Response: Non-muslim countries confict as well.

 

[JMorris]

Response: Non-muslim countries confict as well.

you misunderstood what i meant. i meant, we dont have people running around raping, killing, stealing all over the place.

thats not to say muslim countries do. i mean, you dont need Islam (or any other religion) to be civilized.

you make it seem like we only have 2 choices. become Muslims, or fall into anarchy. thats VERY untrue.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"now, tell me why is the adultery punishment so harsh to you, that they should not be killed?"

Nobody should be stoned for anything - ever. It is barbaric. A throw back to the middle ages that we have long since outgrown.


Oh wait. Islam IS a throw back. A medieval myth that comes with the moral sensibility of the 7th century. Makes perfect sense.

 

[JMorris]

"now, tell me why is the adultery punishment so harsh to you, that they should not be killed?"

Nobody should be stoned for anything - ever. It is barbaric. A throw back to the middle ages that we have long since outgrown.


Oh wait. Islam IS a throw back. A medieval myth that comes with the moral sensibility of the 7th century. Makes perfect sense.

someone actually needs to have "STONING IS BAD" explained to them?

*sighs* i mean seriously *SIGH*

 

[YmirGF]

someone actually needs to have "STONING IS BAD" explained to them?

*sighs* i mean seriously *SIGH*

Here is your chance, JMorris. Just for you.

Stoning: Is it really all that bad?

 

[.lava]

"now, tell me why is the adultery punishment so harsh to you, that they should not be killed?"

Nobody should be stoned for anything - ever. It is barbaric. A throw back to the middle ages that we have long since outgrown.


Oh wait. Islam IS a throw back. A medieval myth that comes with the moral sensibility of the 7th century. Makes perfect sense.

just because people went back to their old traditions that existed before Islam does not mean Islam throws them back. Islam ended crulty. people has started it again not years later but right after departure of Mohammad (PBUH) by killing his family. it is always people who's source of corruption and violence thanks to their ignorance and hatred towards each other. it is not faith that is blind. it is ignorance and hatred. what human do to human is something Prophets did not even do to animals.


.

 

[Fatihah]

you misunderstood what i meant. i meant, we dont have people running around raping, killing, stealing all over the place.

thats not to say muslim countries do. i mean, you dont need Islam (or any other religion) to be civilized.

you make it seem like we only have 2 choices. become Muslims, or fall into anarchy. thats VERY untrue.

Response: You obviously see what you want because I've never said anything of the sort.

 

[Fatihah]

"now, tell me why is the adultery punishment so harsh to you, that they should not be killed?"

Nobody should be stoned for anything - ever. It is barbaric. A throw back to the middle ages that we have long since outgrown.


Oh wait. Islam IS a throw back. A medieval myth that comes with the moral sensibility of the 7th century. Makes perfect sense.

Response: There's the statement. Now where's the proof?